December?

[sojourner]

that is for us as individuals to decide ,looking into the roots of our beliefs is a good thing to do as it can reveal things that we may not have been aware of. i can only speak for myself but for me pure worship is important, because from my study of the bible i know that the true God does not want me to contaminate bible teachings with other beliefs . as it then becomes wrong . and i think i am correct in saying that many people know that their beliefs are contaminated but carry on with the contamination ................ and yes i do believe that this is False religion . especially when a person claims to be following the bible and its teachings .that is not to say that you should not be free to worship in that way if you choose . but for those after uncontaminated worship it would be a no no, and after all God tells his people to GET OUT OF HER REVELATION 18;4 this woman spoken of in revelation is the world wide empire of False religion. and Gods people are out of there. finding out what we are really worshiping is a very important thing to do .
your desire to please God is commendable. But are God and Christ actually pleased with the Christmas season? Consider its roots.

So...you are saying that I am wrong...in your opinion. Thank you for admitting it.

We know that December 25 is not the "correct date." We're not claiming that it is the "correct date." We claim that we don't really know the "correct date." That's not at issue in our celebration of Christ's Nativity. But, I fully believe that Christ is pleased with our desire to worship, and is pleased that we remember his coming among us in human form, whenever we happen to celebrate that event. I don't think Christ is so picayune that he lets our human frailty overshadow our desire for service.

 

[sojourner]

i suppose its if we are after truth or not , would it be right to teach our children an untruth , because that is what happens at infancy school. or would it be better to teach our children the truth . did not Jesus always teach the truth ?

Not in the eyes of the Sanhedrin...

We're not seeking after truth per se. We're seeking first the kingdom of God and God's righteousness. If we were to seek only truth, that endeavor would get in the way of our seeking the kingdom. Clearly it's gotten in the way of your celebration of the Nativity. You appear to be far more concerned with the truth of the date than with the larger truth of "God with us."

I'm curious: When you have found what you're seeking, i.e., The Truth -- what will you do with it? What will it mean for you?

 

[may]

So...you are saying that I am wrong...in your opinion. Thank you for admitting it.

I am saying that I WOULD BE WRONG if i knew that my way of worship was contaminated, but carried on regardless, that is why i have now got rid of the contamination , but many dont . i am out of BABYLON THE GREAT revelation 18;4 but many are not . and it is only Jehovah and Jesus christ who are allowed to do the judging in the end . i dont think it is my opinion that is important. it is a case of ........... what does God require of us .

 

[may]

Not in the eyes of the Sanhedrin...

We're not seeking after truth per se. We're seeking first the kingdom of God and God's righteousness. If we were to seek only truth, that endeavor would get in the way of our seeking the kingdom. Clearly it's gotten in the way of your celebration of the Nativity. You appear to be far more concerned with the truth of the date than with the larger truth of "God with us."

I'm curious: When you have found what you're seeking, i.e., The Truth -- what will you do with it? What will it mean for you?

yes you are quite right , Jesus was not truth in the eyes of the sanhedrin . and followers of christ who speak truth are also not the ones to follow in the eyes of religious leaders who claim to be Gods representatives. if a person is after TRUTH then it is all wrapped up in the GOODNEWS of the kingdom MATTHEW 24;14 DANIEL 2;44 when Jesus taught about the kingdom and his righteousness it was the way to go , Jesus teachings are the thing to stick to and listening to Jesus means that we put into pratice what he taught us . and Jesus knew that at a future time his kingdom would be in heaven , that is why he said to pontius pilot ,MY KINGDOM IS NOT OF THIS WORLD , he knew that at a future time he was to recieve kingship in the heavenly kingdom goverment Daniel 7;13-14 DANIEL 2;44 He knew that he would be a king at a future time in the heavens , but not at that time . he was working inline with Gods purpose. the kingdom is the truth and everything is wrapped up in that kingdom and Jesus plays a very big part in it . and i would say that refusing to recogonize that Jesus has now recieved his kingship in the heavens , inline with bible prophecy and chronology ,gets in the way of finding truth. it seems to me that the teachers of christendom allow the traditions to get in the way of knowing the truth about the kingdom and its now reigning king Jesus christ. there is no need to be curious about what i will do with TRUTH it is being made known all over the world by all of those who have found truth .
And this good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations; and then the end will come. matthew 24;14 this is the truth about the heavenly kingdom goverment that Jesus said would be made known .Daniel 2;44 this is the established heavenly kingdom goverment that Jesus is now a reigning king of Daniel 7;13-14 so i am working inline with Jesus by making it known .Along with the GREAT CROWD from all nations Revelation 7;9-10 this is the ONLY WAY TO PEACE and working inline with Gods kingdom is the way to go . if you are not after truth , then it must mean that you are working against truth and that is not a very good place to be . there is no salvation in any one else but Jesus , and now he is a reigning king ready to stand up and go into action . i have put my vote in for this now reigning king because it is the only way to salvation. what i am doing is waving my symbolic palm branch to welcome this now reigning king , and i am out to advertise this heavenly kingdom goverment with Jesus as ruler Daniel 2;44 Daniel 7;13-14 that is what all followers of christ should be making known in this time of the end . so i am working for the lord, and i am looking to the channel that Jesus is feeding matthew 24;45-47 bible prophecy is now well along in this time of the end , but there are many opossers out there to suppress the GOODNEWS.Jesus is nolonger a baby in a stable ,he is a reigning king ready to go into action .Yes the bible is a most wonderful book of prophecy and now we are well along in these last days Daniel 12;4 KEEPING AWAKE and not falling asleep leads to great blessings now and into the future .

 

[sojourner]

yes you are quite right , Jesus was not truth in the eyes of the sanhedrin . and followers of christ who speak truth are also not the ones to follow in the eyes of religious leaders who claim to be Gods representatives. if a person is after TRUTH then it is all wrapped up in the GOODNEWS of the kingdom MATTHEW 24;14 DANIEL 2;44 when Jesus taught about the kingdom and his righteousness it was the way to go , Jesus teachings are the thing to stick to and listening to Jesus means that we put into pratice what he taught us . and Jesus knew that at a future time his kingdom would be in heaven , that is why he said to pontius pilot ,MY KINGDOM IS NOT OF THIS WORLD , he knew that at a future time he was to recieve kingship in the heavenly kingdom goverment Daniel 7;13-14 DANIEL 2;44 He knew that he would be a king at a future time in the heavens , but not at that time . he was working inline with Gods purpose. the kingdom is the truth and everything is wrapped up in that kingdom and Jesus plays a very big part in it . and i would say that refusing to recogonize that Jesus has now recieved his kingship in the heavens , inline with bible prophecy and chronology ,gets in the way of finding truth. it seems to me that the teachers of christendom allow the traditions to get in the way of knowing the truth about the kingdom and its now reigning king Jesus christ. there is no need to be curious about what i will do with TRUTH it is being made known all over the world by all of those who have found truth .
And this good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations; and then the end will come. matthew 24;14 this is the truth about the heavenly kingdom goverment that Jesus said would be made known .Daniel 2;44 this is the established heavenly kingdom goverment that Jesus is now a reigning king of Daniel 7;13-14 so i am working inline with Jesus by making it known .Along with the GREAT CROWD from all nations Revelation 7;9-10 this is the ONLY WAY TO PEACE and working inline with Gods kingdom is the way to go . if you are not after truth , then it must mean that you are working against truth and that is not a very good place to be . there is no salvation in any one else but Jesus , and now he is a reigning king ready to stand up and go into action . i have put my vote in for this now reigning king because it is the only way to salvation. what i am doing is waving my symbolic palm branch to welcome this now reigning king , and i am out to advertise this heavenly kingdom goverment with Jesus as ruler Daniel 2;44 Daniel 7;13-14 that is what all followers of christ should be making known in this time of the end . so i am working for the lord, and i am looking to the channel that Jesus is feeding matthew 24;45-47 bible prophecy is now well along in this time of the end , but there are many opossers out there to suppress the GOODNEWS.Jesus is nolonger a baby in a stable ,he is a reigning king ready to go into action .Yes the bible is a most wonderful book of prophecy and now we are well along in these last days Daniel 12;4 KEEPING AWAKE and not falling asleep leads to great blessings now and into the future .

Ya just can't resist the opportunity for a good witness diatribe, can you?

The fundamental difference between you and I, May, is that you appear to be all wrapped up in the future -- in "what's next." Jesus told us not to worry about "what's next." That'll be taken care of. What Jesus taught is that we need to worry about the here-and-now, that is, "feed my lambs; care for the widows, orphans and resident aliens; love one another; remember me."

No, Jesus is not a baby in a stable, but the truth is (and this is a truth that begins in Genesis and is propagated throughout the Biblical story) God is with us -- NOW -- not "in the sweet bye-and-bye." God "made himself nothing, taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness..." (Phil. 2) That's the good news -- that God is with us. And it is that reconciliation that is our salvation. And when we participate in doing the things Jesus did, we help to manifest the "God with us" in the world.

December 25 is the day we celebrate that incarnation. It could be the Fourth of July of the Ides of March, for that matter. We're not celebrating the date, but the Jesus-event. In order to celebrate it, it has to come on a certain date. This is the date we've assigned to it. I don't see anywhere in the Bible where Jesus is teaching concern over dates.

Again, your obsession with fact is obscuring your vision of truth.

 

[sojourner]

I am saying that I WOULD BE WRONG if i knew that my way of worship was contaminated, but carried on regardless, that is why i have now got rid of the contamination , but many dont . i am out of BABYLON THE GREAT revelation 18;4 but many are not . and it is only Jehovah and Jesus christ who are allowed to do the judging in the end . i dont think it is my opinion that is important. it is a case of ........... what does God require of us .

Call a spade a spade, please. You said that you "would be wrong if [you] knew that [your] way of worship was contaminated, but carried on regardless." That implies that, since I know that December 25 is an "incorrect date," yet I celebrate the Incernation on that day, I'm wrong.

Further, it is your opinion that counts, since you are the one that has opined that something is inherently wrong with celebrating the Incarnation on December 25. The Bible never says, "Thou shalt not celebrate the Incarnation on December 25. It's wrong."

What God requires of us is to be faithful to the Covenant. That has been accomplished through Christ, thanks to the Incarnation, which we celebrate on December 25. God does not require us to quibble over dates.

 

[may]

Call a spade a spade, please. You said that you "would be wrong if [you] knew that [your] way of worship was contaminated, but carried on regardless." That implies that, since I know that December 25 is an "incorrect date," yet I celebrate the Incernation on that day, I'm wrong.

Further, it is your opinion that counts, since you are the one that has opined that something is inherently wrong with celebrating the Incarnation on December 25. The Bible never says, "Thou shalt not celebrate the Incarnation on December 25. It's wrong."

What God requires of us is to be faithful to the Covenant. That has been accomplished through Christ, thanks to the Incarnation, which we celebrate on December 25. God does not require us to quibble over dates.

yes you are right the bible does not tell us to remember dates of Jesus birth , it tells us to remember his death , which falls on nisan 14, and to keep doing that in remembrance of him

 

[may]

Ya just can't resist the opportunity for a good witness diatribe, can you?

And this good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations; and then the end will come. matthew 24;14 working for the right rulership brings great blessings not only now but right on into the future . it is the only way to peace

 

[may]

The fundamental difference between you and I, May, is that you appear to be all wrapped up in the future -- in "what's next." Jesus told us not to worry about "what's next." That'll be taken care of. What Jesus taught is that we need to worry about the here-and-now, that is, "feed my lambs; care for the widows, orphans and resident aliens; love one another; remember me."

very true, getting involved with things of this world and forgetting about what Jesus taught is not the way to go . and Jesus did say to keep our focus on the kingdom , matthew 6;9-10

YOU must pray, then, this way:​

"‘Our Father in the heavens, let your name be sanctified. Let your kingdom come. Let your will take place, as in heaven, also upon earth............ yes Jesus made the kingdom the important thing to focus on because it is the only way to peace on the earth . the here and now at this point in time is that the kingdom is now well established inline with bible prophecy and chronology . and Jesus wants it to be advertised. Yes there is always plenty to do in the work of the Lord.

 

[gmelrod]

God in his infinite mercy and knowledge knows not only our actions but the content of our hearts. If we do somthing to honor him and out of love for him God accepts that i the spirit in which it is given. Little kids who go out for candy on halloween are not worshiping the devil. They do not intend to. They have not made a choice to dedicate their actions to satan. Thus it cannot be devil worship. In the same way all other holidays which are persued for God's sake are done for God regardless of the past connotations those dates may have had. The importance of a symbol is what it means now, not what it used to mean. The swastica was once a good luck charm but the Nazi's changed it. You can have a problem with the comercialization of Christman and other holidays but when you criticise the symboles involed you have to account for why the people using them now use them. The past is past.

 

[may]

With its roots in ancient pagandom, and the evidence that Christ was not impaled on the traditional cross, nor did the early Christians use such a symbol, one is led to this conclusion: The cross is not really Christian.

 

[may]

A fine example was set by those in ancient Ephesus who, heeding the preaching by the apostle Paul and finding that the items they used were not in harmony with true Christianity, brought them together "and burned them up before everybody." (Acts 19:18, 19) After all, why cherish and adore the instrument that was supposedly used to murder the Lord Jesus Christ?

 

[sojourner]

With its roots in ancient pagandom, and the evidence that Christ was not impaled on the traditional cross, nor did the early Christians use such a symbol, one is led to this conclusion: The cross is not really Christian.

You're right. Christ would not have been impaled on a cross -- not sharp enough on the top to do that. He would have been hung on a cross.

 

[sojourner]

yes you are right the bible does not tell us to remember dates of Jesus birth , it tells us to remember his death , which falls on nisan 14, and to keep doing that in remembrance of him

Unfortunately, the word is anamnesis, which is more than remembrance, it is our participation in the event itself. It's not dates we're concerned with. It's obviously dates you're concerned with. We're concerned with doing what Jesus tells us to do: "Feed my lambs." We do that here on earth. In heaven, God will take care of everything. Sorry.

 

[sojourner]

very true, getting involved with things of this world and forgetting about what Jesus taught is not the way to go . and Jesus did say to keep our focus on the kingdom , matthew 6;9-10

YOU must pray, then, this way:​

"‘Our Father in the heavens, let your name be sanctified. Let your kingdom come. Let your will take place, as in heaven, also upon earth............ yes Jesus made the kingdom the important thing to focus on because it is the only way to peace on the earth . the here and now at this point in time is that the kingdom is now well established inline with bible prophecy and chronology . and Jesus wants it to be advertised. Yes there is always plenty to do in the work of the Lord.

Oh, dear!:cover:

 

[may]

Unfortunately, the word is anamnesis, which is more than remembrance, it is our participation in the event itself. It's not dates we're concerned with. It's obviously dates you're concerned with. We're concerned with doing what Jesus tells us to do: "Feed my lambs." We do that here on earth. In heaven, God will take care of everything. Sorry.

yes its important to do what Jesus told us to do , and the last thing he told followers to do was this ,

Go therefore and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit, teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded YOU. And, look! I am with YOU all the days until the conclusion of the system of things."​

matthew 28;19-20 and the preaching goes on ,

(Acts 20:20) while I did not hold back from telling YOU any of the things that were profitable nor from teaching YOU publicly and from house to house.​

(2 Timothy 2:2) and the things you heard from me with the support of many witnesses, these things commit to faithful men, who, in turn, will be adequately qualified to teach others.
(Acts 1:8) but YOU will receive power when the holy spirit arrives upon YOU, and YOU will be witnesses of me both in Jerusalem and in all Ju·de´a and Sa·mar´i·a and to the most distant part of the earth."
(1 John 3:23) Indeed, this is his commandment, that we have faith in the name of his Son Jesus Christ and be loving one another, just as he gave us commandment. ......yes listening to Jesus is the way to go .

(Matthew 24:14) And this good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations; and then the end will come.​

(Mark 13:10) Also, in all the nations the good news has to be preached first.​

(Revelation 14:6) And I saw another angel flying in midheaven, and he had everlasting good news to declare as glad tidings to those who dwell on the earth, and to every nation and tribe and tongue and people,....................... and those who are still listening to Jesus have a GOODNEWS to advertise , and the goodnews is that Jesus is now a reigning king in Gods heavenly kingdom goverment Daniel 2;44 daniel 7;13-14 ..and the witness goes on , when holy spirit is with Jesus followers it is global GOODNEWS, and as Jesus said in matthew 28-19-20 he would be with them .
(Romans 10:18) Nevertheless I ask, They did not fail to hear, did they? Why, in fact, "into all the earth their sound went out, and to the extremities of the inhabited earth their utterances."
(Matthew 18:20) For where there are two or three gathered together in my name, there I am in their midst."........... yes listening to Jesus is the way to go and in these last days the GOODNEWS is well and truely being made known GLOBALLY...........revelation 7;9-10 i have put my vote in for Gods heavenly kingdom goverment Daniel 2;44 it is the only way to peace on the earth . yes as you say being concerned with the work of the Lord is the way to go . feeding the sheep with lots of good bible based food from Jesus own hands is happening on a global scale MATTHEW 24-45-47 JOHN 10;16....NICE

 

[sojourner]

yes its important to do what Jesus told us to do , and the last thing he told followers to do was this ,

Go therefore and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit, teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded YOU. And, look! I am with YOU all the days until the conclusion of the system of things."​

matthew 28;19-20 and the preaching goes on ,

(Acts 20:20) while I did not hold back from telling YOU any of the things that were profitable nor from teaching YOU publicly and from house to house.​

(2 Timothy 2:2) and the things you heard from me with the support of many witnesses, these things commit to faithful men, who, in turn, will be adequately qualified to teach others.
(Acts 1:8) but YOU will receive power when the holy spirit arrives upon YOU, and YOU will be witnesses of me both in Jerusalem and in all Ju·de´a and Sa·mar´i·a and to the most distant part of the earth."
(1 John 3:23) Indeed, this is his commandment, that we have faith in the name of his Son Jesus Christ and be loving one another, just as he gave us commandment. ......yes listening to Jesus is the way to go .

(Matthew 24:14) And this good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations; and then the end will come.​

(Mark 13:10) Also, in all the nations the good news has to be preached first.​

(Revelation 14:6) And I saw another angel flying in midheaven, and he had everlasting good news to declare as glad tidings to those who dwell on the earth, and to every nation and tribe and tongue and people,....................... and those who are still listening to Jesus have a GOODNEWS to advertise , and the goodnews is that Jesus is now a reigning king in Gods heavenly kingdom goverment Daniel 2;44 daniel 7;13-14 ..and the witness goes on , when holy spirit is with Jesus followers it is global GOODNEWS, and as Jesus said in matthew 28-19-20 he would be with them .
(Romans 10:18) Nevertheless I ask, They did not fail to hear, did they? Why, in fact, "into all the earth their sound went out, and to the extremities of the inhabited earth their utterances."
(Matthew 18:20) For where there are two or three gathered together in my name, there I am in their midst."........... yes listening to Jesus is the way to go and in these last days the GOODNEWS is well and truely being made known GLOBALLY...........revelation 7;9-10 i have put my vote in for Gods heavenly kingdom goverment Daniel 2;44 it is the only way to peace on the earth . yes as you say being concerned with the work of the Lord is the way to go . feeding the sheep with lots of good bible based food from Jesus own hands is happening on a global scale MATTHEW 24-45-47 JOHN 10;16....NICE

Which doesn't include gorging them on "filler": confusing them with what dates might or might not be correct, and with concerns about the future, when most people are needing desperately just to get through the day with enough food to eat.

 

[may]

Which doesn't include gorging them on "filler": confusing them with what dates might or might not be correct, and with concerns about the future, when most people are needing desperately just to get through the day with enough food to eat.

its interesting that Jesus fed people phsically after they had been fed spiritually , that was why they listened to him to be spiritually fed. it is the same today , having a hope for the future earth will bring many blessings in the future, but to know about these things involves listening to the message about the kingdom Daniel 2;44 Gods kingdom is the only hope for peace on the earth , thats why Jesus said to keep on praying for it matthew 6;9-10 Jesus focused on the right things, and it gives people true hope for peace on the earth............... it is the only way to salvation . yes there are starving people in this world in a pyhisical way , thats because manmade goverments are only trial and error and man makes war happen, but not Gods goverment , it has the right king Jesus christ .
For there has been a child born to us, there has been a son given to us; and the princely rule will come to be upon his shoulder. And his name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace. To the abundance of the princely rule and to peace there will be no end, upon the throne of David and upon his kingdom in order to establish it firmly and to sustain it by means of justice and by means of righteousness, from now on and to time indefinite. The very zeal of Jehovah of armies will do this.ISAIAH 9;6-7we can fill peoples bellies and give them no hope at all for the future . or we can focus on giving them a really hope for the future , i am not saying that we should let someone starve to death , but Jesus focused on the kingdom and he is our example.

 

[sojourner]

its interesting that Jesus fed people phsically after they had been fed spiritually , that was why they listened to him to be spiritually fed. it is the same today , having a hope for the future earth will bring many blessings in the future, but to know about these things involves listening to the message about the kingdom Daniel 2;44 Gods kingdom is the only hope for peace on the earth , thats why Jesus said to keep on praying for it matthew 6;9-10 Jesus focused on the right things, and it gives people true hope for peace on the earth............... it is the only way to salvation . yes there are starving people in this world in a pyhisical way , thats because manmade goverments are only trial and error and man makes war happen, but not Gods goverment , it has the right king Jesus christ .
For there has been a child born to us, there has been a son given to us; and the princely rule will come to be upon his shoulder. And his name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace. To the abundance of the princely rule and to peace there will be no end, upon the throne of David and upon his kingdom in order to establish it firmly and to sustain it by means of justice and by means of righteousness, from now on and to time indefinite. The very zeal of Jehovah of armies will do this.ISAIAH 9;6-7we can fill peoples bellies and give them no hope at all for the future . or we can focus on giving them a really hope for the future , i am not saying that we should let someone starve to death , but Jesus focused on the kingdom and he is our example.

Not always true. Many people came to Jesus purely to have their physical needs taken care of -- someone was ill, or crippled, or diseased. Jesus raised the dead, healed the crippled and cured the sick. Many times without "commentary." The good news Christ had was that of "God with us."

 

[may]

Not always true. Many people came to Jesus purely to have their physical needs taken care of -- someone was ill, or crippled, or diseased. Jesus raised the dead, healed the crippled and cured the sick. Many times without "commentary." The good news Christ had was that of "God with us."

yes Jesus was showing how easy it will be to heal people, he was showing on a small scale how it will be on a large scale when sickness will be no more , that is what WILL HAPPEN through Gods kingdom. imagine a world with nomore people sick .
And no resident will say: "I am sick." The people that are dwelling in [the land] will be those pardoned for their error.isaiah 33;24 there will come a time when no people are sick

(Revelation 21:4) And he will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away."

(Revelation 22:2) down the middle of its broad way. And on this side of the river and on that side [there were] trees of life producing twelve crops of fruit, yielding their fruits each month. And the leaves of the trees [were] for the curing of the nations.​