Defend Marriage Between a Man and a Woman!

[Draka]

I'm still wanting to know what any of this stuff about raising or having children has to do with the legal institution of marriage. One does not require the other in either direction, so why are people even trying to link them?

 

[Me Myself]

This report about science has just opened my eyes.

I think it is about what Jungle tries to say here.

Weathering Fights - Science: What's It Up To? - The Daily Show with Jon Stewart - 10/26/11 - Video Clip | Comedy Central

 

[tumbleweed41]

I've played that game on this forum. Nobody involved really seems open to changing their mind. They come into the debate with their mind already made up and then run to the appropriate websites to post the "science" which supports their position. I can damn well guarantee you that for the most part their minds had already been made up before they ever read one "scientific" report on this subject. They just ran to the reports that provided a means to justify themselves in the eyes of others. The reality is that sex has become a god in the West. People literally worship it in the sense that they'll rearrange their whole lives in order to have it and that includes ignoring any responsibility that their actions may carry with them. We're talking about what people trust to bring them happiness. What a surprise that there are people with doctorates who try to justify every perversion under the sun. What an even bigger surprise they can find peers to agree with them. Science in the context of this discussion isn't examining something people have no stake in like spore germination of fungi. On the contrary, their very lives are at stake. I also find it interesting that, in general, as the morals shift in society, "sciencific findings" conveniently shift to justify those morals.

What about on the issue of fornication or the effects of porn on society? Are you telling me that if I post science that suggests that such behaviors are harmful that people who engage in such behavior are going to seriously reconsider partaking in it, generally speaking of course? Or do you think they'll flock to the "scientists" who are conveniently saying exactly what they want to hear? People have to understand that when it comes to "sin" issues, that there will always be someone with a doctorate attempting to justify the behavior that people trust to satisfy them.There has to be a better way of discerning truth than just looking at someone's degree

Like I said before.

Make sure your so called "scientific studies" are peer reviewed and have passed successfully through the entire scientific method.


Keeps ya honest.

 

[Road Warrior]

I'm still wanting to know what any of this stuff about raising or having children has to do with the legal institution of marriage. One does not require the other in either direction, so why are people even trying to link them?

Because it's a ruse to cover up homophobia.

 

[9Westy9]

I've played that game on this forum. Nobody involved really seems open to changing their mind. They come into the debate with their mind already made up and then run to the appropriate websites to post the "science" which supports their position. I can damn well guarantee you that for the most part their minds had already been made up before they ever read one "scientific" report on this subject. They just ran to the reports that provided a means to justify themselves in the eyes of others. The reality is that sex has become a god in the West. People literally worship it in the sense that they'll rearrange their whole lives in order to have it and that includes ignoring any responsibility that their actions may carry with them. We're talking about what people trust to bring them happiness. What a surprise that there are people with doctorates who try to justify every perversion under the sun. What an even bigger surprise they can find peers to agree with them. Science in the context of this discussion isn't examining something people have no stake in like spore germination of fungi. On the contrary, their very lives are at stake. I also find it interesting that, in general, as the morals shift in society, "sciencific findings" conveniently shift to justify those morals.

and you're somehow excluded from this?

Also, please back up your last sentence

 

[-Peacemaker-]

and you're somehow excluded from this?

Also, please back up your last sentence

The racial theories of the 19th and early 20th century are a prime example of what I'm talking about. Studies supporting all kinds of sexual perversions just happened start appearing in the later 20th century when attitudes about sex and its proper use started to change. In earlier years it would've been unheard of for things like adultery to be "shown" to be healthy in certain contexts but that's just what we see now.

 

[9Westy9]

The racial theories of the 19th and early 20th century are a prime example of what I'm talking about. Studies supporting all kinds of sexual perversions just happened start appearing in the later 20th century when attitudes about sex and its proper use started to change. In earlier years it would've been unheard of for things like adultery to be "shown" to be healthy in certain contexts but that's just what we see now.

but how do we know that scientific studies don't change the morals rather than vice versa?

 

[-Peacemaker-]

but how do we know that scientific studies don't change the morals rather than vice versa?

Did guys like Martin Luther King make their point by citing scientific studies supporting the notion that blacks were created equal or did they appeal to the human heart by following the teachings of Jesus?

 

[McBell]

Did guys like Martin Luther King make their point by citing scientific studies supporting the notion that blacks were created equal or did they appeal to the human heart by following the teachings of Jesus?

what the hell does that have to do with the question you quoted?

 

[McBell]

but how do we know that scientific studies don't change the morals rather than vice versa?

Because then it would not support his claim?

 

[Road Warrior]

Did guys like Martin Luther King make their point by citing scientific studies supporting the notion that blacks were created equal or did they appeal to the human heart by following the teachings of Jesus?

Most leaders do use vision to persuade others, but that vision needs to be backed up with facts. In the case of civil rights, it was the law and documents like our Constitution and Declaration of Independence which helped remind people of the inequity of the situation.

 

[9Westy9]

Did guys like Martin Luther King make their point by citing scientific studies supporting the notion that blacks were created equal or did they appeal to the human heart by following the teachings of Jesus?

and the 'scientific studies' were definitely not biased towards supporting the current societal morals? You can say that studies saying homosexuality is okay are biased just as easily as I can say that studies saying the opposite are biased. I don't see any point in continuing this line of debate as it's unlikely to get us anywhere

 

[-Peacemaker-]

I don't see any point in continuing this line of debate as it's unlikely to get us anywhere

It's taken me a year to learn this bit of wisdom but I'm finally learning it. People don't come here with open minds, especially when it comes to their sexual practices. It's best just to enjoy fellowship with each other and enjoy the experience of different worldviews.

 

[9Westy9]

It's taken me a year to learn this bit of wisdom but I'm finally learning it. People don't come here with open minds, especially when it comes to their sexual practices. It's best just to enjoy fellowship with each other and enjoy the experience of different worldviews.

You probably need to re-learn then, because I know several open minded people on the forum

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

It's taken me a year to learn this bit of wisdom but I'm finally learning it. People don't come here with open minds, especially when it comes to their sexual practices. It's best just to enjoy fellowship with each other and enjoy the experience of different worldviews.

I've had my mind changed on quite a few things since I came here, largely by the discussions I've had... but regardless, if you do think that having an open mind is a good thing, why would your impression of other people's closed-mindedness be any reason for you to close your mind as well? Open-mindedness allows us to correct and improve our beliefs. This is something that I want for myself; I don't see why someone would make a conscious decision to not want it for themselves. If everyone else is closed-minded (I don't think they are the way you're suggesting, but hypothetically), so what? You can still enjoy the benefit while they all miss out.

 

[-Peacemaker-]

I've had my mind changed on quite a few things since I came here, largely by the discussions I've had... but regardless, if you do think that having an open mind is a good thing, why would your impression of other people's closed-mindedness be any reason for you to close your mind as well? Open-mindedness allows us to correct and improve our beliefs. This is something that I want for myself; I don't see why someone would make a conscious decision to not want it for themselves. If everyone else is closed-minded (I don't think they are the way you're suggesting, but hypothetically), so what? You can still enjoy the benefit while they all miss out.

Sure people have open minds about trivial things that they have little stake in. How many atheists are are capable of being swayed into believing in God based on something they heard on a message board? How many homosexuals here are capable of being swayed into believing that they've embraced a lie based on their message board experiences here? Frankly, I'll admit that I'm not ready to make a judgement on those questions as I can't see into people's hearts however I am skeptical

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Sure people have open minds about trivial things that they have little stake.

What stake do you have in this? Do you have a same-sex marriage hanging in the balance here?

How many atheists are are capable of being swayed into believing in God based on something they heard on a message board?

Depends how good the argument is.

So far, I've never seen a written argument for God that's the least bit compelling. I don't think this speaks to closed-mindedness so much as the poor quality of the case for God (as it's been presented so far).

How many homosexuals here are capable of being swayed into believing that they've embraced a lie based on their message board experiences here?

What would someone have to post here to convince you that your wife isn't human but is actually a robot? If a person fails to accept some crank claim presented to him by the internet, this is hardly evidence of closed-mindedness.

Consider the possibility that even though you consider some argument to be compelling, it might be because it supports a position you already have, so you don't feel the need to examine it for flaws.

Frankly, I'll admit that I'm not ready to make a judgement on those questions as I can't see into people's heart however I am skeptical

Again: what does it matter?

If the street you were walking down was littered with hundred dollar bills, would you say "well, nobody else is picking them up, so I won't either"? Having an open mind can only help you... even if everyone around you is being closed-minded.

 

[-Peacemaker-]

I'll put it a different way. I think what I perceive as a closed mind is really a hardened heart. I'm not sure any scientific study in the world can penetrate such a heart

 

[9Westy9]

I'll put it a different way. I think what I perceive as a closed mind is really a hardened heart. I'm not sure any scientific study in the world can penetrate such a heart

and you have a hardened heart detector?

 

[nnmartin]

Homosexuality IS natural.

that may be true, but they cannot naturally produce children together.