Define "Marriage"

[free spirit]

Excuse me, but exactly what "condition" are you saying I have? One of compassion? Condition of love and understanding? The condition of having the intelligence and knowledge about me that I am able to discern the difference between marriage and reproduction? Again, your stance is vile and it seems the only thing you have to defend said disgusting and illogical stance is to insult others' intelligence by saying it is "over their heads" or they have some "condition". You tell me I am the one peddling filth on the forum, but my posts are not the ones filled with misinformation and vile. You then proceed to tell me that you are a friend, but then go on to tell me I am in desperate need of "help" simply because I don't trip over myself to tell you you are right when you are wrong. I'm sorry, I don't believe in lying so I won't do so just to appease your sense of "right and wrong" when your "right" is so very very wrong.

Yes Draka I was hard on you I am sorry, But I get so mad when there is no wisdom in what people say. Like everything gos in the name of love, no purpose, and no order.

I remind you of your original question, expecially the underlined part
Ok. Very simple. Define what marriage is, WITHOUT using gender specific words. What is a marriage? What makes it real? (I'm NOT talking about in the eyes of the government. Just the concept of marriage itself.)

Is a marriage dependent upon love?
Commitment?
Legal papers?
Clergy blessing?
Ceremony?

 

[McBell]

... But I get so mad when there is no wisdom in what people say...

yet you do not hesitate to flat out lie...

Wow.

 

[Reverend Rick]

This issue has been debated to death. It has caused me to even change my position on gay marriage. I will not stand in the way. If you want others who used to oppose same sex marriage to follow my lead, it would be helpful to have a clear difference between legal marriage and religious marriage.

You see, when I hear the word marriage, I think of it as a spiritual union before God that should last a life time.

When others hear the word, they think of prenups and legal rights that marriage encompasses.

Everyone should have the same rights regardless of the couples gender. In the United States EVERYONE SHOULD BE EQUAL. That includes the GLBT community.

If we would like to move this issue into the express lane, we need to be able to discern the difference between legal marriage and spiritual marriage. Many times the two go hand in hand, but in just as many instances people get married that have no religion what so ever. The word marriage is confusing at best.

Most rational people do not want any groups of people discriminated against. They do not want to deny any group there happiness. Many uninformed folks believe that their church will be told what they can and can not do if this law was changed.

This is just not true.

The biggest problem facing same sex couples who want to get married is the ignorance of others.

 

[Autodidact]

Well at list you know how to express yourself.


You have to know that the world has lost the definition of what marriage is, the very existence of this thread is a clear evidence of that. so marriage today can be a myriad of things to different people, usually they define marriage with what is important to them, and that is fine with me.
I am trying to explain with little success the unadulterated primordial and real definition of marriage.

So marriage is to become one with your spouse in spirit and body, that entails mixing of the persona; that at list should be what they should hope for.
But that expectation is rarely achieved between two individuals, however their hope to became one is not lost if they create a new life, for the new life has something of both partners.

in a nutshell marriage is two fold;
1) marriage is ideally for two adults to became one.
2) rarely acknowledged is the indissoluble marriage of the two individual genes becoming one new life

That is the best I can do for you

Oh, I see. The actual way that actual people use the actual word is not the "real" definition; the "real" definition is whatever you want it to be. That clears that up.

 

[Im an Atheist]

Ok. Very simple. Define what marriage is, WITHOUT using gender specific words. What is a marriage? What makes it real? (I'm NOT talking about in the eyes of the government. Just the concept of marriage itself.)

Is a marriage dependent upon love?
Commitment?
Legal papers?
Clergy blessing?
Ceremony?


There are a few issues that this definition affects. Namely: same sex marriage and "premarital" sex.

If a marriage is a loving commitment between two people then anyone can be married.

If a marriage is a matter of legal papers, then it is a secular thing and not a religious one and it matters not what any religion has to say about it.

If a marriage is a clergy blessed union then anyone of any religion can possibly be married regardless of any legal paperwork or whether they are homosexual or not.

If a marriage is dependent on some kind of "ceremony" then a couple could do that between themselves at home and they would be just as "married" as someone who got married in a church or courthouse.


So, which is it? What, regardless of anyone's gender, defines a marriage?

Marriage is the bonding between to people with consent from both sides.

 

[Draka]

Yes Draka I was hard on you I am sorry, But I get so mad when there is no wisdom in what people say. Like everything gos in the name of love, no purpose, and no order.
I remind you of your original question, expecially the underlined part

Ok. Very simple. Define what marriage is, WITHOUT using gender specific words. What is a marriage? What makes it real? (I'm NOT talking about in the eyes of the government. Just the concept of marriage itself.)

Is a marriage dependent upon love?
Commitment?
Legal papers?
Clergy blessing?
Ceremony?

First off, if you get mad when people speak without wisdom, then you should be mad at yourself.

Second, what is it you have against love anyway? Have you been so hurt in the past you are now so jaded that even the mere mention of love fuels you to try to discredit its importance to basic humanity? Without love, compassion, understanding, this world would have no boundaries. No motivation against indifference. No reason to go on. Therefore, why shouldn't love and compassion be the highest regarded attributes of humanity?

Truth is, love is not required for the creation of a new life, lust is. And lust can be inside a loving relationship or not. A relationship built on lust and that only exists for the procreation or raising of children is not a worthy relationship for anyone to be in. If love and compassion for one another is not present in a marriage or any commited relationship, then it will not last. Regardless of whether children are involved or not. In fact, a relationship without love as its very core should not even attempt to raise children in it. It is not healthy for children to be raised inside a loveless relationship.

Also, you have broken the very requirements of the orginal question I asked in the first place. To not bring gender into the equation. You did that from the get go when you started talking about the "mixing of the male and female genes". That right there insists that there need be a male and a female in a marriage. What I asked for is to define the concept of what a marriage is WITHOUT acknowledging gender.

Let me ask you just how heartless you could be. Say you fell madly in love with the woman of your dreams. She is perfect in every aspect to you and you could not hope to find anyone as loving and devoted to you as she is. You marry her and plan to have a family with her. After many attempts to have children and no luck you both go to the doctor and find out that she cannot have children. That some disease she had in childhood did irreparable damage to her ovaries and there is no medical way possible for her to ever get pregnant. Would you leave her? Would you consider your marriage to not exist anymore because this wonderful woman could not give you offspring? Would your marriage mean less to you now that you find out you cannot "mix genes" with her?

 

[ragordon168]

Truth is, love is not required for the creation of a new life, lust is. And lust can be inside a loving relationship or not. A relationship built on lust and that only exists for the procreation or raising of children is not a worthy relationship for anyone to be in. If love and compassion for one another is not present in a marriage or any commited relationship, then it will not last. Regardless of whether children are involved or not. In fact, a relationship without love as its very core should not even attempt to raise children in it. It is not healthy for children to be raised inside a loveless relationship.

take the huge numbers of teenage pregnancies right now. they arent in love in the true sense, they just reeeaaaly like them. this 'love' leads to sex which leads to pregnancies. now the love wasnt true - soul mate love so doesnt count by free spirits definition. the lust however was true and that not love is what ends up causing new life.

Let me ask you just how heartless you could be. Say you fell madly in love with the woman of your dreams. She is perfect in every aspect to you and you could not hope to find anyone as loving and devoted to you as she is. You marry her and plan to have a family with her. After many attempts to have children and no luck you both go to the doctor and find out that she cannot have children. That some disease she had in childhood did irreparable damage to her ovaries and there is no medical way possible for her to ever get pregnant. Would you leave her? Would you consider your marriage to not exist anymore because this wonderful woman could not give you offspring? Would your marriage mean less to you now that you find out you cannot "mix genes" with her?

excellent question btw

 

[free spirit]

Originally Posted by Draka
Ok. Very simple. Define what marriage is, WITHOUT using gender specific words. What is a marriage? What makes it real? (I'm NOT talking about in the eyes of the government. Just the concept of marriage itself.)

A daily paper reported once in Australia that a man had married his motorbike. I believe that man must felt very close or at one with his machine, maybe he even felt sexy while riding her. So I ask you, was that a marriage or was the man mad?

 

[ragordon168]

Originally Posted by Draka
Ok. Very simple. Define what marriage is, WITHOUT using gender specific words. What is a marriage? What makes it real? (I'm NOT talking about in the eyes of the government. Just the concept of marriage itself.)

A daily paper reported once in Australia that a man had married his motorbike. I believe that man must felt very close or at one with his machine, maybe he even felt sexy while riding her. So I ask you, was that a marriage or was the man mad?

mad, he married an engine for christs sake. proper marriage is between two consenting human beings, it is a thing reserved soley for us (unless we find ET sentients out there)

 

[Draka]

Originally Posted by Draka
Ok. Very simple. Define what marriage is, WITHOUT using gender specific words. What is a marriage? What makes it real? (I'm NOT talking about in the eyes of the government. Just the concept of marriage itself.)

A daily paper reported once in Australia that a man had married his motorbike. I believe that man must felt very close or at one with his machine, maybe he even felt sexy while riding her. So I ask you, was that a marriage or was the man mad?

As ragordon has pointed out, that is not a marriage. Marriage, at the very least, is a mutually consentual thing. As a motorcycle is not able to give consent, it is not a marriage. Now why are you bringing up stupid things? And why have you not answered my question in that post?

 

[free spirit]

Originally Posted by free spirit
Originally Posted by Draka

Ok. Very simple. Define what marriage is, WITHOUT using gender specific words. What is a marriage? What makes it real? (I'm NOT talking about in the eyes of the government. Just the concept of marriage itself.)

A daily paper reported once in Australia that a man had married his motorbike. I believe that man must felt very close or at one with his machine, maybe he even felt sexy while riding her. So I ask you, was that a marriage or was the man mad?

As ragordon has pointed out, that is not a marriage. Marriage, at the very least, is a mutually consentual thing. As a motorcycle is not able to give consent, it is not a marriage. Now why are you bringing up stupid things? And why have you not answered my question in that post?

You cannot see that as a marriage, you see it as a stupid thing because it does not fulfill the very least of requirements that been for you "mutual consent" but for that man and those who conducted the ceremony seen nothing wrong with it, yes it was eccentric, like the couple that got married while sky diving. Also that man obviously loved that bike, which he serviced regularly and kept it in meant condition, the bike in turn never let him down and carried him everywhere, they were a perfect match.

 

[blackout]

Originally Posted by free spirit


A daily paper reported once in Australia that a man had married his motorbike. I believe that man must felt very close or at one with his machine, maybe he even felt sexy while riding her. So I ask you, was that a marriage or was the man mad?



You cannot see that as a marriage, you see it as a stupid thing because it does not fulfill the very least of requirements that been for you "mutual consent" but for that man and those who conducted the ceremony seen nothing wrong with it, yes it was eccentric, like the couple that got married while sky diving. Also that man obviously loved that bike, which he serviced regularly and kept it in meant condition, the bike in turn never let him down and carried him everywhere, they were a perfect match.

HE may have married the motorbike,
but I assure you...
the motorbike did not marry him :no:...

and no vows were exchanged.

 

[blackout]

Can his motorbike now make legal decisions for him as well?

 

[Draka]

I can't believe we are degrading to this level of absurdity. You don't like how marriage is being defined here so, since you can't logically argue it you're going to throw in stupid things like marrying vehicles and lawn furniture next. You still haven't answered my last question. What would you do in that circumstance?

 

[blackout]

And what happens when he finds his motorbike doesn't fill all his needs?

Will he need a divorce to go and buy another vehicle?
Or can he just have a cute little car on the side. :flirt:

 

[free spirit]

A motorcycle is not able to give consent, it is not a marriage. Now why are you bringing up stupid things? And why have you not answered my question in that post?

I have no answered the questions on your post because they do not address
Just the concept of marriage itself.) these question explain marriage with gender, human emotion, and we do not want to talk about that, we like to know what constitute indissoluble marriage, for all the dissoluble marriages are no marriages at all. Don't get me wrong they have the papers to proof that they are legally married and they are madly in love, but has nature married them indissolubly. that is all.

 

[Draka]

I have no answered the questions on your post because they do not address
Just the concept of marriage itself.) these question explain marriage with gender, human emotion, and we do not want to talk about that, we like to know what constitute indissoluble marriage, for all the dissoluble marriages are no marriages at all. Don't get me wrong they have the papers to proof that they are legally married and they are madly in love, but has nature married them indissolubly. that is all.

Is English not your first language? Because you are very hard to understand. Perhaps if you tried to break down and separate your sentences better?

Just read and answer this scenario. How is that so difficult for you to do?

Let me ask you just how heartless you could be. Say you fell madly in love with the woman of your dreams. She is perfect in every aspect to you and you could not hope to find anyone as loving and devoted to you as she is. You marry her and plan to have a family with her. After many attempts to have children and no luck you both go to the doctor and find out that she cannot have children. That some disease she had in childhood did irreparable damage to her ovaries and there is no medical way possible for her to ever get pregnant. Would you leave her? Would you consider your marriage to not exist anymore because this wonderful woman could not give you offspring? Would your marriage mean less to you now that you find out you cannot "mix genes" with her?

 

[free spirit]

Is English not your first language? Because you are very hard to understand. Perhaps if you tried to break down and separate your sentences better?

Sorry, I did not know that it was so bad, I will try to do better.
Just read and answer this scenario. How is that so difficult for you to do?

Originally Posted by Draka

Let me ask you just how heartless you could be. Say you fell madly in love with the woman of your dreams. She is perfect in every aspect to you and you could not hope to find anyone as loving and devoted to you as she is. You marry her and plan to have a family with her. After many attempts to have children and no luck you both go to the doctor and find out that she cannot have children. That some disease she had in childhood did irreparable damage to her ovaries and there is no medical way possible for her to ever get pregnant. Would you leave her? Would you consider your marriage to not exist anymore because this wonderful woman could not give you offspring? Would your marriage mean less to you now that you find out you cannot "mix genes" with her?

Some man would divorce her for much less than that, I honestly cannot answer that, because I was blessed with five children two boys and three girls, so having experienced that joy I cannot see my self with no children.
But I know of newly wed who had a car accident, she ended up divorcing him because he became quadriplegic by it, she said, she was young and had a life to live.
I have a friend who donated one of his kidney to his wife, now that is true love don't you think?
So, Draga we have love and true love; can you spot the difference?

 

[free spirit]

To Draga

I can't believe we are degrading to this level of absurdity.

You are absolutely right, without a firm and unchangeable definition of what makes marriage real and honorable, humanity is heading for absurdity.
Some are wedded to their work, or cannot live separated from it.

 

[Jeremy Mason]

I'm being lazy, but what about 2-5 year marriages, w/ a renewal clause?