Wildswanderer
Veteran Member
Why in the world would you find the pledge of allegiance fascist?
It's a pledge to an ideal, not to a government.
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Democracy dies to thunderous applause
- Thread starter SomeRandom
- Start date
It's a pledge to an ideal, not to a government.
Wildswanderer
Veteran Member
To freedom, yes, not to any leader.
PoetPhilosopher
Veteran Member
It does seem fascist to me, too.
Though I respect it to an extent out of respecting history.
wellwisher
Well-Known Member
The Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag: "I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."
The flag is a symbol of the United States of America. It is a readily available material point of focus, that symbolized and represents the unique nature of the USA. The analogy is a wedding ring. This ring symbolizes marriage. One is not worshipping a ring, but rather the ring is there is to remind one, that wearing the ring is a pledge that represents love, unity and fidelity.
When cheating and hustling people see a wedding ring, most know this will be a harder person to corrupt due to the symbolism. Many hustlers will stay clear. Others who still approach, will see how the person reacts and they will back off if that person renews their pledge of ring. If they hide the ring, they are corruptible. It is a tell. The hustlers and corruptible have made America less appealing around the world.
The flag is a similar point of focus for the symbolic nature of the USA.
The USA is a Republic.
From Wikipedia:
A republic (from Latin res publica 'public affair') is a "state in which power rests with the people or their representatives; specifically a state without a monarchy" and also a "government, or system of government, of such a state."
America is not supposed to regress back toward a monarchy, where only few people have all the power, without term limits. The majority of people lose their rights; over bearing government. The COVID pandemic was a good litmus test since it told us which party was trying to act like a monarch, at the expense of the Republic. These motivation were usually hidden behind smiles and lies, but they came out under the stress and excuse of the pandemic. Both parties had similar end results, but this test showed that the Republican states stayed truer to the pledge. They did not cheat on their flag; what it stands for.
The Twitter Files have shown an unholy alliance between the Government bureaucratic state and several intel agencies and the Party that says it wants Socialism; end the power of the people. Socialism is less about democratic voting and more about a top down approach, like a monarchy. I can see why such people hate the pledge since it exposes them as cheats.
One nation under God is connected to religious freedom. Those who believe in God, all assume there is higher power than human. This is where the concept of human rights came from. Social Darwinism was not from God but from man. Racism is not human rights but manmade. The religious are less fooled when disinformation and misinformation try to decrease human rights. Those who fight religion, realize they cannot control people, until they can destroy their gods and religions, Only then cans there be a total dumb down in the hierarchy of truth. This can then lead to a monarchy mentality; king is almost god but still a godless man.
The country was supposed to be indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Justice for all means due process and not the Kangaroo Courts that the Democrats party has been using against Trump. Where was innocent until proven guilty?
The Russian Collusion Coup was also guilty without any trial. This swamp scam was the trigger that divided the more united USA of 2016, and made it divisible. This was based on lies and projections, What we saw is how a fascist state behaves. Fascist will lie and not allow a fair trial, since, guilt will already be declared, if the accused is a threat to their power.
Justice for all also means the criminals need to be brought to justice. I would allow citizen Trump to civil sue all government officials who lied about him, since there are libel laws. Maybe jail is too harsh, so expensive trials may be justice enough for these crooks.
I can see how the swamp does not wish this symbol of the flag to remain, since it exposes them and if too many people maintain the pledge.
The flag is a symbol of the United States of America. It is a readily available material point of focus, that symbolized and represents the unique nature of the USA. The analogy is a wedding ring. This ring symbolizes marriage. One is not worshipping a ring, but rather the ring is there is to remind one, that wearing the ring is a pledge that represents love, unity and fidelity.
When cheating and hustling people see a wedding ring, most know this will be a harder person to corrupt due to the symbolism. Many hustlers will stay clear. Others who still approach, will see how the person reacts and they will back off if that person renews their pledge of ring. If they hide the ring, they are corruptible. It is a tell. The hustlers and corruptible have made America less appealing around the world.
The flag is a similar point of focus for the symbolic nature of the USA.
The USA is a Republic.
From Wikipedia:
A republic (from Latin res publica 'public affair') is a "state in which power rests with the people or their representatives; specifically a state without a monarchy" and also a "government, or system of government, of such a state."
America is not supposed to regress back toward a monarchy, where only few people have all the power, without term limits. The majority of people lose their rights; over bearing government. The COVID pandemic was a good litmus test since it told us which party was trying to act like a monarch, at the expense of the Republic. These motivation were usually hidden behind smiles and lies, but they came out under the stress and excuse of the pandemic. Both parties had similar end results, but this test showed that the Republican states stayed truer to the pledge. They did not cheat on their flag; what it stands for.
The Twitter Files have shown an unholy alliance between the Government bureaucratic state and several intel agencies and the Party that says it wants Socialism; end the power of the people. Socialism is less about democratic voting and more about a top down approach, like a monarchy. I can see why such people hate the pledge since it exposes them as cheats.
One nation under God is connected to religious freedom. Those who believe in God, all assume there is higher power than human. This is where the concept of human rights came from. Social Darwinism was not from God but from man. Racism is not human rights but manmade. The religious are less fooled when disinformation and misinformation try to decrease human rights. Those who fight religion, realize they cannot control people, until they can destroy their gods and religions, Only then cans there be a total dumb down in the hierarchy of truth. This can then lead to a monarchy mentality; king is almost god but still a godless man.
The country was supposed to be indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Justice for all means due process and not the Kangaroo Courts that the Democrats party has been using against Trump. Where was innocent until proven guilty?
The Russian Collusion Coup was also guilty without any trial. This swamp scam was the trigger that divided the more united USA of 2016, and made it divisible. This was based on lies and projections, What we saw is how a fascist state behaves. Fascist will lie and not allow a fair trial, since, guilt will already be declared, if the accused is a threat to their power.
Justice for all also means the criminals need to be brought to justice. I would allow citizen Trump to civil sue all government officials who lied about him, since there are libel laws. Maybe jail is too harsh, so expensive trials may be justice enough for these crooks.
I can see how the swamp does not wish this symbol of the flag to remain, since it exposes them and if too many people maintain the pledge.
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Just saying that’s how it appears. It just encourages blind loyalty. And yeah ideals are cool to have and that’s great and all.
But to pledge yourself to them? Why? Ideals are malleable and are often open for interpretation. They can even change.
One can use them to justify all manner of things, good and bad, in the name of defending them.
I’m not saying ideals are a bad thing to strive for. I’m just saying blind loyalty to them can have adverse consequences. Potentially
Then why do it at all?
If the people have the right to peacefully change the system, then what’s the point?
Do they need to be reminded of your allegiance to freedom? Or is it merely a robotic ritual that exists because everyone else does it?
Do you even question the use of it? I’m hoping you’re encouraged to do so, right?
If not then it is encouraging blind loyalty.
I mean shows of patriotism are great and all.
But surely in the US one should be equally encouraged to question these shows of patriotism as well? I mean you guys love free expression, right?
But all we ever hear on the news from the US is someone challenging or not engaging in a patriotic display (possibly as a protest or maybe just lazy that day) being branded as a traitor or otherwise verbally abused.
Surely the ideal of freedom as espoused in said pledge of allegiance should allow people to applaud such shows of free expression? Right? Even as they criticise them
The whole
“I may not agree with what you say, but I’ll fight to death for your right to say it” thing.
If that is indeed the case then fair enough. As I said, I’m an outsider so I can only comment from an outsider’s perspective
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Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
"I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands."
It's a pledge first to a piece of cloth, second to a country.
Wildswanderer
Veteran Member
The flag represents an ideal. We pledge to uphold that ideal that our country was founded on, namely that all men are created equal and given the same rights by God.
Wildswanderer
Veteran Member
If you don't stand for something...you'll fall for anything.
Wildswanderer
Veteran Member
I say it proudly because to me it represents the notion that all men are created equal, and the ideal of individual liberty... Even as our government often tries to remove those rights.
Let believers pledge to such things.
I never did. Never will.
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
God wasn't a founding anything, clearly and obviously by the grave failure to live up to all men are created equal, along with the fact the Constitution allows and protects actions the Bible demands death for. It's even documented that America wasn't established on Christian values. That, and god hasn't even been in the Pledge for a century. It got added as a boneheaded move to assert and enforce differences and divisions during a political contest of who's got the bigger dick.
And, ultimately, I pledge allegiance to a piece of material is the first thing pledged to. Then country. Then a vague notion of liberty and justice being last.
The Kilted Heathen
Crow FreyjasmaðR
You've already been shown - with sources - how this is all baseless nonsense.
Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
God I miss that old superman series. RIP fellas.A never-ending battle for Truth, Justice, and the American Way
Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
No it's being patriotic. Nothing wrong with it whatsoever.
The Kilted Heathen
Crow FreyjasmaðR
Yeah, I would not trust your definition of patriotic further than I could thrown a burrito-bender-passed-out Donald Trump.
Wildswanderer
Veteran Member
You do cynical and I'll keep doing love for my country that was founded on biblical principles.
Wildswanderer
Veteran Member
We don't care. No one makes you. That's the point, you have freedom of speech here.
Oh, but they try, eg, public school.
And courts try to coerce us into religious oaths.
Requesting a secular oath to be truthful is the
trick they use to expose non-believers.
And so I don't pledge loyalty to mere
pieces of cloth, & invented gods.
I’ve seen folks fall for all kinds of nonsense simply because it was dressed up like patriotic propaganda.
Like I said, it’s great to have ideals and strive to uphold them. Just be wary of what you’re willing to justify on their behalf is all I’m saying