Democracy dies to thunderous applause

[Shadow Wolf]

To rescue people from evil?
It's a common prayer in scripture

"Rescue me, O my God, out of the hand of the wicked,
Out of the grasp of the wrongdoer and ruthless man,"
Psalm 71


Jeremiah 15:21

“So I will deliver you from the hand of the wicked,
And I will redeem you from the grasp of the violent.”

God historically used people to rescue others from evil regimes quite often.

That's a plea to god and not a specific instruction to go save the world from evil.

 

[metis]

Yeah, but those are recorded as that god's thoughts and sentiments.

I don't buy the "recorded" part, and I do believe there's lotsa supposed statements that are likely very far from being correct.

IMO, the Bible and all other religious texts are different people's takes on God(s) and what He/They supposedly said and did, and I'm about as far from being a literalist as you'll likely ever find.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

IMO, the Bible and all other religious texts are different people's takes on God(s) and what He/They supposedly said and did, and I'm about as far from being a literalist as you'll likely ever find.

True. But this specifically the God of Abraham. That god, per the words that it allegedly revealed to humans, does not get along well or play nice with others. It's recorded in the Bible.
Surely we can do better than holding on to something so destructive and anti-social and making excuses for it to defend its continued existence and worship.

 

[metis]

Surely we can do better than holding on to something so destructive and anti-social and making excuses for it to defend its continued existence and worship.

I don't make excuses for it, and my "worship" isn't exactly normative. {see my "Religion" as it appears at the top of my posts]

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I don't make excuses for it, and my "worship" isn't exactly normative. {see my "Religion" as it appears at the top of my posts]

We is more collective. Like the numerous revisions to the mainstream understanding of the Bible itself. Sometimes it's fire and brimstone, sometimes it's mercy and love. But regardless it's the same book.
Thomas Jefferson is probably a prime example of this. Clearly he was no fan of Christianity and staunchly opposed to the dogma and superstitious elements of Christianity. So, instead of promoting something else that was better he just cut most the Bible out and left it to Jesus' teachings. He didn't start writing about Jains striving to do as little harm as possible. He didn't reference Buddhism and Karma. He rewrote the Bible like he rewrote/plagarized parts of Locke for the Constitution.

 

[metis]

We is more collective. Like the numerous revisions to the mainstream understanding of the Bible itself. Sometimes it's fire and brimstone, sometimes it's mercy and love. But regardless it's the same book.
Thomas Jefferson is probably a prime example of this. Clearly he was no fan of Christianity and staunchly opposed to the dogma and superstitious elements of Christianity. So, instead of promoting something else that was better he just cut most the Bible out and left it to Jesus' teachings. He didn't start writing about Jains striving to do as little harm as possible. He didn't reference Buddhism and Karma. He rewrote the Bible like he rewrote/plagarized parts of Locke for the Constitution.

One of my majors during my undergrad years was in history, and the one thing you find out rather quickly in these studies is that when we're reading history, we're actually reading someone's take on what supposedly happened. I put reading scripture with that same thought in mind.

 

[wellwisher]

If you look at history, the US was an experiment in social engineering. Before the Constitution, most countries were controlled by centralized control; Monarchies. The masses did not vote and all the power and wealth was at the top, controlled by families with no term limits. The majority were peasants and serfs; slaves, stuck in their class with little upward mobility.

The US became an experiment where the masses; common man, could vote because they had God given human rights based on the best of the religious teachings. The experiment needed God given rights, so even the monarch was subject to the same laws. Manmade rights fall short so there is dual justice; rig the game for some.

Religious freedom was what makes this unique Freedom and Democracy experiment possible, since religion and God; New Testament, it is the conceptual basis for the idea of equal human rights for all. The Old Testament is too clannish for equal rights for all.

If you notice, the more godless Left, prefers Socialism to Democracy. Relative morality and the freedoms of Democracy, do not add up well, together. If taken to the limits, Democracy using relative morality, leads to the need to take away freedom, in the name of spreading basic creature comfort.

The religious have more self control, due to the nature of faith in higher powers; divine law. Unlike manmade law which can be cheated, the religious cannot cheat in the darkness when man is not looking. God can still see; perpetual conscience. It is hard to have faith in lower powers; relative human morality and expect the best ending for everyone; too much cheating, This is why big Government Socialism is the goal of Atheism and not the freedoms of Democracy; 2nd string morality leads to second string culture; back to retro monarchies.

I went to a Commencement for a friend who got his MBA many years back. The speaker was a noted Economist. In his address he told a story about working internationally. He was often asked by Economists and Leaders, in developing counties, how the US is able to have so many different views, choices and freedoms and not just implode or explode into chaos? We can have guns, but there is not constant state wars among all the gun owners? In his country that much freedom it would lead to cheating, lawlessness and chaos.

The speaker traced it back to the self control connected to Religious freedom. To be a faithful follower of any religion, while not being a hypocrite, you need to steer a steady time tested course. This course prevents the ebb and flow from self serving group thinking, that could lead to chaos.

The US can have a peaceful creative chaos due to the firm mooring created by its many religions ad their followers. Love your enemy, means one cannot just fly off the handle; eye for an eye, but one has to remain conscious of compulsions; self control. The self control allows time for the event to pass and thereby life remains stable. On the large social scale, the self control keeps culture active and dynamic but united, so the sailing is easier.

The affect is similar to a boat that keeps getting holes and is taking on water. As long as there are enough people; religion, to bail out the water, it will stay afloat. But if the bailers quit; get rid of religion, the boat will sink unless we stop the citizens from having the freedom to make holes; Big Government takes over to set rules for the godless, who will make holes, but not help bail. They prefer solutions; holes, that make the problem worse; border crisis.

Even in terms of the tax budget, the Religious, by sharing common income and property taxes, have to pay for the immorality endorsed by the Left, if that immorality is placed in the budget. If all the religious could take back their taxes, and spend it on themselves and theirs, the Left could not create as much shared waste without imploding. Those with spiritual self control pay for the waste; bail the ship, which allows the left to go on longer, than it could on its own adding holes.

I like the idea of a social experiment where the religious get to keep their taxes and can spend it on what is important to them; tax break. The Atheists and Liberals can spend their tax money as they see fit; social spending. We then watch, side by side, so we can cut through the propaganda. We remove the bailers from the Left, so the smaller godless ship can sink or go to Socialism. We can remove the hole makers so the religious bailers get to rest. The religious will remain part of the continuing social experiment of freedom, but without the hole makers. Unless the Religious decide to help bail them out with charity, since many are there due to being led astray with false promises.

 

[Revoltingest]

Religious freedom was what makes this unique Freedom and Democracy experiments possible, since religion and God it is the conceptual basis for human rights for all.

It's your conceptual basis, not mine.

If you notice, the more godless Left, prefers Socialism to Democracy.

If you notice, we've a poster from one of those
Eurostanian countries who loves both socialism
and Christianity. The Pope has been a major
critic of capitalism.

The religious have more self control, due to the nature of faith in higher powers; divine law.

I see no more self control among religious folk
than among us heathens. One could even argue
that believers lack self control, & depend upon
threat of Hell to keep them in line.

This is why big Government Socialism is the goal of Atheism and not the freedoms of Democracy; 2nd string morality leads to second string culture; back to retro monarchies.

That seems odd, given how many Christians
argue for big government & "socialism".
While so many libertarians tend towards
atheism, capitalism, & small government.

Christians & Muslims...if they get too much
power...are a big threat to liberty (IMO).
We atheists aren't just pretty...we're tolerant.

The speaker traced it back to the self control connected to Religious freedom.

Countries with the most religious freedom
have secular governments. Those with the
least are theocracies.

Face it...to practice your religion freely, &
to have a healthy economy...you need us
heathens & secular humanists.

 

[metis]

I like the idea of a social experiment where the religious get to keep their taxes and can spend it on what is important to them; tax break.

OK, so then we will eliminate all defense spending, all programs to help the poor and elderly that includes Social Security and Medicare, all national highway construction and repair, all pay for members of Congress and all other national governmental positions, all federal disaster relief agencies, all government research projects, etc.

I think I know how that will work out.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

If you look at history, the US was an experiment in social engineering. Before the Constitution, most countries were controlled by centralized control; Monarchies. The masses did not vote and all the power and wealth was at the top, controlled by families with no term limits. The majority were peasants and serfs; slaves, stuck in their class with little upward mobility.

The US became an experiment where the masses; common man, could vote because they had God given human rights based on the best of the religious teachings. The experiment needed God given rights, so even the monarch was subject to the same laws. Manmade rights fall short so there is dual justice; rig the game for some.

Religious freedom was what makes this unique Freedom and Democracy experiment possible, since religion and God; New Testament, it is the conceptual basis for the idea of equal human rights for all. The Old Testament is too clannish for equal rights for all.

If you notice, the more godless Left, prefers Socialism to Democracy. Relative morality and the freedoms of Democracy, do not add up well, together. If taken to the limits, Democracy using relative morality, leads to the need to take away freedom, in the name of spreading basic creature comfort.

The religious have more self control, due to the nature of faith in higher powers; divine law. Unlike manmade law which can be cheated, the religious cannot cheat in the darkness when man is not looking. God can still see; perpetual conscience. It is hard to have faith in lower powers; relative human morality and expect the best ending for everyone; too much cheating, This is why big Government Socialism is the goal of Atheism and not the freedoms of Democracy; 2nd string morality leads to second string culture; back to retro monarchies.

I went to a Commencement for a friend who got his MBA many years back. The speaker was a noted Economist. In his address he told a story about working internationally. He was often asked by Economists and Leaders, in developing counties, how the US is able to have so many different views, choices and freedoms and not just implode or explode into chaos? We can have guns, but there is not constant state wars among all the gun owners? In his country that much freedom it would lead to cheating, lawlessness and chaos.

The speaker traced it back to the self control connected to Religious freedom. To be a faithful follower of any religion, while not being a hypocrite, you need to steer a steady time tested course. This course prevents the ebb and flow from self serving group thinking, that could lead to chaos.

The US can have a peaceful creative chaos due to the firm mooring created by its many religions ad their followers. Love your enemy, means one cannot just fly off the handle; eye for an eye, but one has to remain conscious of compulsions; self control. The self control allows time for the event to pass and thereby life remains stable. On the large social scale, the self control keeps culture active and dynamic but united, so the sailing is easier.

The affect is similar to a boat that keeps getting holes and is taking on water. As long as there are enough people; religion, to bail out the water, it will stay afloat. But if the bailers quit; get rid of religion, the boat will sink unless we stop the citizens from having the freedom to make holes; Big Government takes over to set rules for the godless, who will make holes, but not help bail. They prefer solutions; holes, that make the problem worse; border crisis.

Even in terms of the tax budget, the Religious, by sharing common income and property taxes, have to pay for the immorality endorsed by the Left, if that immorality is placed in the budget. If all the religious could take back their taxes, and spend it on themselves and theirs, the Left could not create as much shared waste without imploding. Those with spiritual self control pay for the waste; bail the ship, which allows the left to go on longer, than it could on its own adding holes.

I like the idea of a social experiment where the religious get to keep their taxes and can spend it on what is important to them; tax break. The Atheists and Liberals can spend their tax money as they see fit; social spending. We then watch, side by side, so we can cut through the propaganda. We remove the bailers from the Left, so the smaller godless ship can sink or go to Socialism. We can remove the hole makers so the religious bailers get to rest. The religious will remain part of the continuing social experiment of freedom, but without the hole makers. Unless the Religious decide to help bail them out with charity, since many are there due to being led astray with false promises.

You haven't studied US history much, have you?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I see no more self control among religious folk
than among us heathens. One could even argue
that believers lack self control, & depend upon
threat of Hell to keep them in line.

Yup. They assume all dissenters are atheists and have poor morality and are bad people because they don't have their angry god micromanaging their lives and telling them what to do.
Which really just says they are terrible people with an unhealthy sense of morality as they apparently need someone threatening them with excessive punishment.
Although, that's not quite accurate. They do have a book and god constantly telling them what to do, like a parent telling a child what to do, so in their mind how can others possibly do without reading the "instruction manual," as they call it.