Democrat bill passed that bans paramilitary training. You know, Nazis and stuff.

[Laniakea]

Lawmakers trying to restrict Neo-Nazis training in military tactics in Maine isn't exactly the same as the US providing weapons to Ukraine to support the defense of their nation from an invading country. Yes, they are different for reasons.

Do you think Maine politicians shouldn't be concerned about Neo-Nazis training in military tactics in their state? I certainly am concerned. I am a Maine citizen and this concerns me greatly.

Then whether or not one is a Nazi seems to have no bearing on whether or not they should have training (in Maine), or training, billions of dollars, and military hardware (Ukraine).
Would you believe differently if Maine was a state being invaded by hostile forces?

 

[Guitar's Cry]

Then whether or not one is a Nazi seems to have no bearing on whether or not they should have training (in Maine), or training, billions of dollars, and military hardware (Ukraine).
Would you believe differently if Maine was a state being invaded by hostile forces?

Very likely, any invasion in the US would have to come up against any of the myriad kinds of militias if they exist in the area.

Maine isn't being invaded. The rhetoric of Christopher Pohlhaus is extremely violent and racist. Invoking the Ukraine war is a red herring attempting to distract from this. I don't support arming or training any group that promotes white supremacy. Simultaneously, arming and training the Ukrainian army is a very different situation even if it includes white supremacy militias.

 

[Twilight Hue]

I am not actually surprised in the slightest you would side with ****s who appear in human form and are full of hate and out to cause problems.

Only you would think that. I'm siding with the Constitution and the right for people to assemble on their own property and engage with whatever they want as long as they stay peaceful about it and be allowed to blow off some steam.

Not put a pressure cooker on things and make things worse just because some half baked alarmed power hungry control freak Democrats suddenly get paranoid and irrational over things that haven't even happened except in their imagined pee brain world that this guy is a Nazi invasion machine ushering in the Fourth Reich.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Lawmakers trying to restrict Neo-Nazis training in military tactics in Maine isn't exactly the same as the US providing weapons to Ukraine to support the defense of their nation from an invading country. Yes, they are different for reasons.

Do you think Maine politicians shouldn't be concerned about Neo-Nazis training in military tactics in their state? I certainly am concerned. I am a Maine citizen and this concerns me greatly.

The simple solution is to have government agents justifibly watch and monitor them.

Not make attempts to suddenly seize control over all others who might like to have a militia club that, like other militias, has nothing to do with Nazism.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Are you just making stuff up?

Well, um, maybe...

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

You mean it's not different, and Biden is wrong for sending our money and weapons to Ukraine's Nazis? That would be surprising to hear!

"Ukraine's Nazis?" Do you believe that just because Putin said it, or do you have some evidence?

 

[crossfire]

I'm confused. The story is about a bill in the State of Maine legislature, but the link is to a bill in the US Congress that has only been read twice in the House Committee on the Judiciary and hasn't made it to the floor?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Only you would think that. I'm siding with the Constitution and the right for people to assemble on their own property and engage with whatever they want as long as they stay peaceful about it and be allowed to blow off some steam.

Not put a pressure cooker on things and make things worse just because some half baked alarmed power hungry control freak Democrats suddenly get paranoid and irrational over things that haven't even happened except in their imagined pee brain world that this guy is a Nazi invasion machine ushering in the Fourth Reich.

These are ****ing neo-Nazis. They are not good people, they do not have good intentions, they do not come in peace. Every country more free than us would not allow it.

 

[Guitar's Cry]

The simple solution is to have government agents justifibly watch and monitor them.

Not make attempts to suddenly seize control over all others who might like to have a militia club that, like other militias, has nothing to do with Nazism.

Here's the summary of the bill:

"This bill prohibits a person from the teaching of, training in or demonstrating the use, application or making of a firearm, explosive or incendiary device if the person knows or reasonably should know that the teaching, training or demonstrating is intended to be used in or in furtherance of civil disorder. It also prohibits a person from assembling with others for the purpose of practicing or being trained or instructed in the use, application or making of a firearm, explosive or incendiary device or in techniques capable of causing injury or death. The bill exempts certain activities from this prohibition and establishes that a violation is a Class C crime. The bill also authorizes the Attorney General to bring a civil action against a violator to restrain or prevent the violation by temporary or permanent injunction."

LD 2130, HP 1354, Text and Status, 131st Legislature, Second Regular Session

 

[Viker]

Reminds me of this scene:

Wolverines!

 

[Viker]

Then whether or not one is a Nazi seems to have no bearing on whether or not they should have training (in Maine), or training, billions of dollars, and military hardware (Ukraine).
Would you believe differently if Maine was a state being invaded by hostile forces?

Any invasive expeditionary force would first be dealt with by the professionals, then National Guard units. I doubt anyone could effectively get through our defenses in one piece. Let alone smash these defenses and then be capable of facing off with everyday people. We already have National Guards, why anything else?

Americans do watch too many movies.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Americans do watch too many movies.

But that's how we know a group of highschoolers can fight against an invadimg army and win.

 

[Twilight Hue]

But that's how we know a group of highschoolers can fight against an invadimg army and win.

Good. With that confidence, there is no need for such a bill.

 

[Stevicus]

But that's how we know a group of highschoolers can fight against an invadimg army and win.

 

[Revoltingest]

It's simple ... a mere threee steps:

1. whine less,
2. reread the cited bill, and
3. don't bring explosives across State lines to you paint ball game.

Rubbish.
Perhaps you didn't read the bill.
It does indeed given government overly
broad powers to criminalize constitutionally
legal....& even rather ordinary activity.

Read it with an eye towards how each element
could be misused by an over-zealous
government.

 

[Guitar's Cry]

Rubbish.
Perhaps you didn't read the bill.
It does indeed given government overly
broad powers to criminalize constitutionally
legal....& even rather ordinary activity.

Read it with an eye towards how each element
could be misused by an over-zealous
government.

The first part of the summary I previously posted is sensible:

"This bill prohibits a person from the teaching of, training in or demonstrating the use, application or making of a firearm, explosive or incendiary device if the person knows or reasonably should know that the teaching, training or demonstrating is intended to be used in or in furtherance of civil disorder."

The second part has elements that I feel could be viewed as overly restrictive (bolded):

"It also prohibits a person from assembling with others for the purpose of practicing or being trained or instructed in the use, application or making of a firearm, explosive or incendiary device or in techniques capable of causing injury or death. The bill exempts certain activities from this prohibition and establishes that a violation is a Class C crime. The bill also authorizes the Attorney General to bring a civil action against a violator to restrain or prevent the violation by temporary or permanent injunction."

My concern would be in how this would be interpreted for shooting ranges, people getting together for target practice, or defensive training. My hope is this will be amended because the rest of it is sensible.

The actual language in the bill does specify "Unauthorized paramilitary training." My question would be what would count as "authorized paramilitary training"? My opinion is that the bill should specifically focus on the "furtherance of civil disorder" part.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Good. With that confidence, there is no need for such a bill.

You should really reconsider you interpretation of my post.

 

[Revoltingest]

The first part of the summary I previously posted is sensible:

"This bill prohibits a person from the teaching of, training in or demonstrating the use, application or making of a firearm, explosive or incendiary device if the person knows or reasonably should know that the teaching, training or demonstrating is intended to be used in or in furtherance of civil disorder."

The second part has elements that I feel could be viewed as overly restrictive (bolded):

"It also prohibits a person from assembling with others for the purpose of practicing or being trained or instructed in the use, application or making of a firearm, explosive or incendiary device or in techniques capable of causing injury or death. The bill exempts certain activities from this prohibition and establishes that a violation is a Class C crime. The bill also authorizes the Attorney General to bring a civil action against a violator to restrain or prevent the violation by temporary or permanent injunction."

My concern would be in how this would be interpreted for shooting ranges, people getting together for target practice, or defensive training. My hope is this will be amended because the rest of it is sensible.

The actual language in the bill does specify "Unauthorized paramilitary training." My question would be what would count as "authorized paramilitary training"? My opinion is that the bill should specifically focus on the "furtherance of civil disorder" part.

Aye, the bill is broader than curtailing people with
nefarious intent. Dang....it could've been used to
make me a criminal for shooting my M1A at my
local rifle range.
And I'm a draft dodger who'd never join any
military or paramilitary organization.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Will the People's Democrat Party raid them with a swat team in full military gear themselves, which of course are notably excepted in the bill.

There is no such thing as "the People's Democrat Party" in the United States. Your continued use of this suggests an overall disingenuousness on your part. That sort of thing usually has a subversive purpose. What's yours?

Further, political parties do not "raid" anybody. That is for law enforcement, not law-makers.

 

[Guitar's Cry]

Aye, the bill is broader than curtailing people with
nefarious intent. Dang....it could've been used to
make me a criminal for shooting my M1A at my
local rifle range.
And I'm a draft dodger who'd never join any
military or paramilitary organization.

Though that would be perfectly legal under this:

"4. Sport shooting ranges. Unless otherwise prohibited, a person may discharge a firearm on a sport shooting range as defined in Title 30‑A, section 3011, subsection 1 that is within 100 yards of a building if the sport shooting range was established and in regular operation prior to the erection of the building."

Title 12, §11209: Discharge of firearm or archery equipment near dwelling or building

Hunting and shooting culture is a big deal in Maine. Hence why I think the legislation need to specify more clearly that this law is for preventing groups training for the "furtherance of civil disorder" and what is considered "authorized" in terms of "paramilitary training."