Guitar's Cry
Disciple of Pan
Which part? The "civil disorder" part?
That's a good thing.
Which is hopefully what this law is meant to address. I don't disagree that it may need work.
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Democrat bill passed that bans paramilitary training. You know, Nazis and stuff.
- Thread starter Twilight Hue
- Start date
Which part? The "civil disorder" part?
That's a good thing.
Which is hopefully what this law is meant to address. I don't disagree that it may need work.
Laniakea
Not of this world
Sorry, but chanting slogans and "training in military skills" is not terrorism. I've heard of people wanting to label free speech as terrorism, and it appears that you're one of those people. I believe more in the First Amendment.
Seeking social disorder is what was encouraged during the riots of 2020. It was meant to "make people think", and bring attention to a cause.
Also, military-type training isn't working toward violence. Survival skills can serve a person or a group quite well.
Quit fear-mongering. Just because you don't agree with someone's views doesn't mean anything until you use your disagreement to stoke fear of the people you disagree with. That only leads to hate.
Guitar's Cry
Disciple of Pan
Slogans that specifically threaten while simultaneously preparing to back up that threat is terrorism, according to definitions that include "threat of violence."
Okie doke.
Ignoring, of course, the threatening behavior towards a group of people and the history of violence by people with this ideology.
Um...okay. Aren't you, like, sympathizing with neo-Nazis?
Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
Your right. So far they haven't engaged in terrorist activity. They just get together and do whatever they do by themselves.
Even the Hells Angels who already had a vast past history of public violence are still allowed to have a clubhouse and to meet and congregate and do whatever the hell they want there.
A militia isn't even close to a MC club, so they are pretty benign in comparison and shouldn't be singled out as something worthy of having a bunch of paranoid opportunist Democrats using the legal system to violate people's constitutional right to assemble.
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I'm guessing that this law will be challenged in court. The key phrase seems to be "groups working to cause civil disorder," although causing civil disorder would itself be a crime. But I can't really say how this will be hashed out legally, especially with the current composition of the Supreme Court.
Apart from the legalities, the idea of Nazis training a paramilitary group does seem rather disconcerting. I imagine there might be some states which could actually allow and encourage such activity. In states where there are right-wing governors and friendly sheriffs, who knows what they could be up to?
I don't know if they could be compared to the Hells Angels or other gangs or organized crime. The motives of criminal organizations tend to be more economic than political. But I don't know how much of a threat they are these days. I read recently about a major biker shootout somewhere in Oklahoma, but it wasn't Hells Angels. I can't remember the names of the gangs involved.
Guitar's Cry
Disciple of Pan
But they don't just "do whatever they do by themselves." They also go out in the community and threaten other citizens. I am not denying they have a right to protest or even bear arms. But they have made threats that "blood will be spilled" and have made it clear they want a white ethnostate. So for them to train for war is an actual threat to communities.
I would be willing to bet that if a Muslim group going into communities chanting about instating Sharia law, invoking the names of other Muslim terrorists, and threatening non-Muslims, then buying up a large plot of land where they practice military activities, A LOT of people sympathetic to Nazis would be more willing to regulate their activities.
But, they aren't actually engaging in terrorism, right?
Let me try another scenario with something I would be a bit more sympathetic to. Let's say some members of the Earth Liberation Front and eco-anarchists move into an area, protest about environmental issues using language like "humans are viruses and must be wiped out," and have a compound where they live and train in military skills. Say you are a logger in that community or own a company that has some environmental impact.
Maybe this legislation isn't the best solution. Maybe something enforcing close monitoring on any militia group or regulations around the types of training they are allowed would be better. Whatever the case, it seems reasonable that a community would want to do something to protect citizens being threatened by any group (regardless of ideology) training in skills related to carrying out the threat.
If not, then other citizens would be reasonable in also training in skills to defend against the threat. So a community could have several militia groups, all training in combat, all counter-protesting each other, and all armed.
Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
Threatening isn't doing. And those who do get put in jail. Pretty straightforward I think.
If they want a club they should be allowed to have a club. Just like MCs. They come across as threatening all the time, yet they are still allowed to assemble on their own land.
This is no different.
Guitar's Cry
Disciple of Pan
Well, yes, there is a difference. Motorcycle clubs tend not to focus on specific groups besides other motorcycle clubs, correct? They can be generally violent, but don’t focus on particular groups. I also don't think they generally train in warfare tactics.
Laniakea
Not of this world
Do you have an equal problem with leftist groups chanting things like "Death to America", and calls for Jihad (in America)?
'Death to America' chants in Dearborn echo across social media, draw local condemnation
Chants of "death to America" and "death to Israel" made at a pro-Palestine rally in Dearborn captured worldwide attention and get condemned by groups.
www.detroitnews.com
Wu Wei
ursus senum severiorum and ex-Bisy Backson
H.R.6981 - Preventing Private Paramilitary Activity Act of 2024
§ 2742. Unauthorized private paramilitary activity“(a) Offense.—It shall be unlawful to knowingly, in a circumstance described in subsection (b), while acting as part of or on behalf of a private paramilitary organization and armed with a firearm, explosive or incendiary device, or other dangerous weapon—
“(1) publically patrol, drill, or engage in techniques capable of causing bodily injury or death;
“(2) interfere with, interrupt, or attempt to interfere with or interrupt government operations or a government proceeding;
“(3) interfere with or intimidate another person in that person's exercise of any right under the Constitution of the United States;
“(4) assume the functions of a law enforcement officer, peace officer, or public official, whether or not acting under color of law, and thereby assert authority or purport to assert authority over another person without the consent of that person; or
“(5) train to engage in any activity described in paragraphs (1) through (4).
“(b) Circumstances.—The circumstances described in this subsection are that the conduct described in subsection (a)—
“(1) involves—
“(A) travel across a State line or national border; or
“(B) the use of the channels, facilities, or instrumentalities of interstate or foreign commerce;
“(2) involves a firearm, explosive or incendiary device, or dangerous weapon that has traveled in interstate or foreign commerce;
“(3) involves the use of ammunition or a large capacity ammunition feeding device that has traveled in interstate or foreign commerce;
“(4) obstructs, delays, or affects interstate or foreign commerce; or
“(5) occurs wholly within any commonwealth, territory, or possession of the United States.
(c) Exceptions.—Subsection (a) shall not apply to—
“(1) the armed forces of the United States, the National Guard, the Naval Militia, any regularly organized State militia, or any unorganized or reserve militia called into service by a State or the United States;
“(2) a group of individuals who—
“(A) associate as a military organization solely for purposes of historical reenactment or study; or
“(B) parade in public as part of a bona fide veterans organization with no intent to engage in the activities prohibited by subsection (a);
“(3) students in an educational institution authorized by the Federal Government or a State to teach military science as a prescribed part of the course of instruction, when under the supervision of a military instructor; or
“(4) members of an organization that is authorized under Federal or State law to provide paramilitary, law enforcement, or security services training or to engage in paramilitary activity, law enforcement, or security services when performing the functions authorized by law and, in the case of paramilitary activity and law enforcement functions, when under the direction and control of a governmental authority.
Guitar's Cry
Disciple of Pan
Do you have an equal problem with leftist groups chanting things like "Death to America", and calls for Jihad (in America)?
'Death to America' chants in Dearborn echo across social media, draw local condemnation
Chants of "death to America" and "death to Israel" made at a pro-Palestine rally in Dearborn captured worldwide attention and get condemned by groups.www.detroitnews.com
Reread the post you are responding to.
Laniakea
Not of this world
Doesn't seem to interfere with groups on their own property doing what they want, unless of course, someone claims to be "intimidated" by it. With victimhood ruling the day, it's easy to claim to be intimidated.
Laniakea
Not of this world
Done.
Now reread the reply.
Guitar's Cry
Disciple of Pan
I asked because I specifically gave an example of a group I would be more sympathetic with doing similar activities.
Though, are the folks in the example you gave training in paramilitary skills?
Laniakea
Not of this world
No, just terrorist activity against our country.
Guitar's Cry
Disciple of Pan
What specifically was terrorism? The chanting?
Laniakea
Not of this world
"Death to America" isn't exactly calling for anything peaceful.
Guitar's Cry
Disciple of Pan
So just chanting "Death to America" and "Death to Israel" without paramilitary training is terrorism, but "Keep New England White" and "There will be Blood" with paramilitary training isn't?