Demons - Is There Evidence They Exist?

[Subduction Zone]

How do you know that?

Perhaps it’s a persons belief in God that matters and not what name you call Him.

It’s silly to think that with all of our different cultures that one God would appeal to everyone on the planet.

We don’t know what God is doing but He does have a plan.

Law of excluded middle - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

We were not talking about mere belief, we were talking about whether one is right or wrong.

And you keep misusing the word "know". When it comes to God you do not "know" anything. You only have beliefs. Maybe very strong beliefs but a belief no matter how strong is not knowledge. But why would a belief in any sort of God be wanted or demanded? God cannot seem to supply any evidence for his existence.

 

[HonestJoe]

There is plenty of evidence if that’s all you want.

Did you even read what I wrote? The question is what exactly are you presenting evidence for though? "Demons" isn't an answer because there isn't a clear singular definition of that word.

If I simple declared that there is lots of evidence that you're guilty, what would be your obvious first question?

 

[Subduction Zone]

Go on tik Tom and you can watch around 50 clips in five minutes.

I’m not wasting an hour doing that so you can simply say they are all fake.

I don’t jump through hoops like this.

I do not think that Tik Tok videos qualify as evidence.

 

[Tinkerpeach]

I do not think that Tik Tok videos qualify as evidence.

So if I videotaped a demon and didn’t put it on TikTok then it would count?

Lol

 

[Tinkerpeach]

Did you even read what I wrote? The question is what exactly are you presenting evidence for though? "Demons" isn't an answer because there isn't a clear singular definition of that word.

If I simple declared that there is lots of evidence that you're guilty, what would be your obvious first question?

Well what do you want evidence for then?

I didn’t make this thread

 

[Subduction Zone]

So if I videotaped a demon and didn’t put it on TikTok then it would count?

Lol

No, it is too easy to fake such events.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Well what do you want evidence for then?

I didn’t make this thread

Repeatable objective evidence.

 

[Tinkerpeach]

Repeatable objective evidence.

Evidence for what?

I no longer have any idea what this thread is about since so many people are warping it in so many ways.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Evidence for what?

I no longer have any idea what this thread is about since so many people are warping it in so many ways.

The topic of the thread is "Demons, is there evidence they exist?" Right now the answer is no since no one has provided any.

 

[Tinkerpeach]

No, it is too easy to fake such events.

So there is nothing you would ever consider evidence.

That has been my point all along.

I suppose I could bring you on a ghost hunt although most people end up getting freaked out and leaving.

 

[Subduction Zone]

So there is nothing you would ever consider evidence.

That has been my point all along.

I suppose I could bring you on a ghost hunt although most people end up getting freaked out and leaving.

No, I was quite clear. The fact that you do not have any evidence does not mean that there is nothing that I would ever consider evidence.

And people are gullible. I am sure that some ran away. How is that evidence for anything?

 

[Tinkerpeach]

No, I was quite clear. The fact that you do not have any evidence does not mean that there is nothing that I would ever consider evidence.

And people are gullible. I am sure that some ran away. How is that evidence for anything?

I didn’t say it was evidence.

My point was that experiencing it for yourself is probably the only thing that would ever convince you but most people can’t handle it once the activity starts.

 

[HonestJoe]

Well what do you want evidence for then?

I didn’t make this thread

I'm not the one claiming to be presenting evidence. You said that there is evidence of "demonic possession" (just like the OP said there is evidence for demons) so it is on you to say what you're saying that is evidence for exactly.

What are you saying a demon is? How does it affect things? What shows the events and phenomena you refer to are caused by these proposed demons rather than any other possibility?

Why are you unwilling (or unable) to simply describe and explain that? Again, the point is really simple; You don't start with evidence, you start with a hypothesis.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I didn’t say it was evidence.

My point was that experiencing it for yourself is probably the only thing that would ever convince you but most people can’t handle it once the activity starts.

What "activity""? If it is what I have heard of as claimed activity why does it disappear when there are reliable methods of recording being used?

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

And people are gullible. I am sure that some ran away. How is that evidence for anything?

In my experience as a paranormal investigator, there are people (believers and skeptics alike) who are unwilling to invest the time and resources necessary to authentically validate any potential evidence of paranormal activity. So, someone who believes in the paranormal will typically take any noise or other activity as undeniable proof, whereas someone who does not believe in the paranormal will dismiss any noise or other activity without a second thought.

To be quite honest, trying to persuade either of them otherwise is pointless because they've already made up their minds. In my opinion, some believers are too open-minded and unwilling to investigate further in order to determine if the activity they witnessed can be debunked, whereas most skeptics are too close-minded and unwilling to investigate further in order to determine if the activity they witnessed is genuine and can't be debunked by a natural explanation. They typically refuse to accept the possibility that what they experienced could in fact be paranormal. I believe that there must be a balance between belief and skepticism when investigating a suspected haunted location, and I strive to achieve this balance whenever I'm investigating a location.

 

[danieldemol]

To be quite honest, trying to persuade either of them otherwise is pointless because they've already made up their minds

I disagree, cut off the hand of a demon (assuming they have hands) so we can examine it's unique demon DNA etc and then after incontrovertible evidence is presented we will find that out.

I mean they can't even provide so much as a shred of hair off a demon, much less describe exactly where they saw one so that we can go and observe one for ourselves.

Instead all we have are "chronicles" from people from outside the scientific community considered "respectable" by believer folk in my view.

@Tinkerpeach uses a metaphor of an island that doesn't have a dog and would have trouble believing in one because of it and in a sense her metaphor is literally true in my view because there are no demons on my island (Australia), so I expect similar evidence for other existent phenomena such as dogs;

Descriptions, locations where they can be found, specimens of dogs that either are alive or preserved after their death etc.

Not a cover-up of "evidence" of something allegedly highly dangerous to humans such that only believers are allowed to examine the evidence after 17 petitions over the space of years and even then it is only evidence that could have been faked, that is a highly suspicious circumstance in my view.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

There is plenty of evidence if that’s all you want.

Tens of thousands of detailed documented cases of demonic possession over the centuries, many chronicled by very well respected people.

You can start with that.

I applaud you for counting them all.

Does the supposed large number of accounts impact whether they are correct? Is the reputation of an individual involved in making claims about demons make it an unquestionable conclusion? There are lots of people that claim aliens, but so far, no definitive evidence for Aliens. Christianity, Islam and Hinduism are the three largest religious groups in the World, but all vary greatly in what they believe. Does the large number mean they are all correct?

If there is plenty of evidence, as you claim, then it should be no problem to present some of that evidence, explain it and demonstrate that it supports the existence of demons and their activity.

I know, you don't want to waste your time and that really helps with the credibility of your claims for sure.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

In my experience as a paranormal investigator, there are people (believers and skeptics alike) who are unwilling to invest the time and resources necessary to authentically validate any potential evidence of paranormal activity. So, someone who believes in the paranormal will typically take any noise or other activity as undeniable proof, whereas someone who does not believe in the paranormal will dismiss any noise or other activity without a second thought.

To be quite honest, trying to persuade either of them otherwise is pointless because they've already made up their minds. In my opinion, some believers are too open-minded and unwilling to investigate further in order to determine if the activity they witnessed can be debunked, whereas most skeptics are too close-minded and unwilling to investigate further in order to determine if the activity they witnessed is genuine and can't be debunked by a natural explanation. They typically refuse to accept the possibility that what they experienced could in fact be paranormal. I believe that there must be a balance between belief and skepticism when investigating a suspected haunted location, and I strive to achieve this balance whenever I'm investigating a location.

My issue has been and remains, the conclusions of the evidence that are derived and how the conclusion arises naturally from the evidence to the exclusion of all else. I can't and don't claim these things don't exist. I don't know that they do or do not. I have to be open to the possibility. But what leads to a conclusion of demons, spirit, ghost, etc. to the exclusion of natural phenomena or other potential conclusions is where I have trouble. Even if I believe in the object of discussion, it has no bearing on what others conclude, can demonstrate and explain. Several have used me and others asking for evidence as their excuse not present it.

For instance, I have seen UFO's or whatever they are called these days. Literally airborne objects that I could not identify. But for some, mention of seeing a UFO means a claim of aliens. How are the other potential possibilities eliminated to draw that conclusion. In the three times I can recall, I think one was a meteor and the other to remain simply unidentified and could be evidence of anything. I didn't automatically assume them to be anything more than what I observed.

On another forum, I was told a story about a Christian retreat where a small group at the retreat heard the sound of a blender operating in the kitchen, but investing not only revealed no one in the kitchen, but that the blender was unplugged. This was accounted as evidence of the supernatural and perhaps Divine activity. I asked how the story teller was certain that someone just came in, turned the blender on, even by accident, shut if off and unplugged it before quickly departing without notice. I see their denial of the possibility as their own bias to believe what they wanted rather than consider it a valid possibility limiting the conclusion they wanted. Another possibility is that the blender was on, but the cord was loose and some vibration or gravity acting on the plug triggered a completion of the connection briefly starting the blender and also caused the cord to fall from the outlet. Many times, I see people going from A to Z and skipping all the letters in between, because Z is the one they want.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

I disagree, cut off the hand of a demon (assuming they have hands) so we can examine it's unique demon DNA etc and then after incontrovertible evidence is presented we will find that out.

I mean they can't even provide so much as a shred of hair off a demon, much less describe exactly where they saw one so that we can go and observe one for ourselves.

Instead all we have are "chronicles" from people from outside the scientific community considered "respectable" by believer folk in my view.

@Tinkerpeach uses a metaphor of an island that doesn't have a dog and would have trouble believing in one because of it and in a sense her metaphor is literally true in my view because there are no demons on my island (Australia), so I expect similar evidence for other existent phenomena such as dogs;

Descriptions, locations where they can be found, specimens of dogs that either are alive or preserved after their death etc.

Not a cover-up of "evidence" of something allegedly highly dangerous to humans such that only believers are allowed to examine the evidence after 17 petitions over the space of years and even then it is only evidence that could have been faked, that is a highly suspicious circumstance in my view.

Do we even have evidence to expect that demons have DNA, cells or tissues like humans and other animals and plants have?

A claim of demons, unlike dogs, is an extraordinary claim and requires extraordinary evidence. Look at how much evidence supports the theory of evolution and so many continue to reject the theory and the phenomenon out of purely ideological reasons. Then turn around and demand that others accept a claim of demons on only the mention of alleged video. Seems a little one-sided and very, very poor support.

If the mental health of a person hinges on extraordinary claims they are possessed by demons and they don't get sound medical help that may actually be the appropriate conclusion of the evidence of unusual behavior, then they are being harmed by a belief and not helped by it. I find the application of narrow, closed and intractable belief where a more reasoned approach is warranted to be rather insidious in my opinion.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

In my experience as a paranormal investigator, there are people (believers and skeptics alike) who are unwilling to invest the time and resources necessary to authentically validate any potential evidence of paranormal activity. So, someone who believes in the paranormal will typically take any noise or other activity as undeniable proof, whereas someone who does not believe in the paranormal will dismiss any noise or other activity without a second thought.

To be quite honest, trying to persuade either of them otherwise is pointless because they've already made up their minds. In my opinion, some believers are too open-minded and unwilling to investigate further in order to determine if the activity they witnessed can be debunked, whereas most skeptics are too close-minded and unwilling to investigate further in order to determine if the activity they witnessed is genuine and can't be debunked by a natural explanation. They typically refuse to accept the possibility that what they experienced could in fact be paranormal. I believe that there must be a balance between belief and skepticism when investigating a suspected haunted location, and I strive to achieve this balance whenever I'm investigating a location.

If these things are to be studied, I think the methods of science and the use of modern technology should be applied. If there are phenomena to be observed, then it should be observed seriously and with the best means available to gather information. The more evidence available to apply logic, reason and knowledge to and come to the best conclusions the better. It may not support explanations for all of the claims, but it certainly has the possibility to eliminate those that are obviously wrong or purposefully contrived. That in itself is something.