Detachment and suffering

[Truthseeker]

Why does death have to be a 'welcome relief' from this life, unless one is suffering in this life?
Let's get real. Having a few bladder spasms for which he has pain medication is not really suffering. The cancer has spread to a couple of vital organs but it is not causing any symptoms or pain, not yet anyway.

I was talking about your suffering here. You have been suffering for years. No, for everybody, death is not a welcome relief. It also may be get better for you, and you won't be suffering like this. It will get better than this for you. My belief is that after a while you will find that this will pass, and life will be better for you. Life is change, it never stands still.

O Son of Man!
Should prosperity befall thee, rejoice not, and should abasement come upon thee, grieve not, for both shall pass away and be no more.
, “The Hidden Words of Bahá’u’lláh” , a52

It is to our benefit to realize that whatever condition we are in will always change. It is only temporal, not eternal. It seems to be a Buddhist attitude. There is no “self” that is unchanging in a sense. Our world is always changing. There is no permanence except in the Uncreated.

It just so happened this Hidden Word was discussed just now in my hidden Words deepening.

The doctors do not listen to anything I say. They say that he does not want to live because of his present diagnosis and pain, but that is illogical because most cancer patients who have his diagnosis and pain seek treatment.

The doctors have no idea what his life has been like for many years. You know because I have told you. He lost the will to live long ago and I tries to help him but I couldn't because he just blew me off.

Yes, I know.

Yes, treatment can be painful, but it is the fallacy of hasty generalization to say that it is always painful. Lewis is now getting targeted radiation to the bladder and there is no pain. He will get 10 treatments and the goal is to stop the bleeding so they can remove the catheter and bladder irrigation. He could get targeted radiation to the other organs where the cancer has spread. He does not have to get chemo.

Yes, I don't know the situation. You know better than I do.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Yes, I know because that is the health insurance I have. They are looking a big lawsuit for misdiagnosis and mismanagement of his case if my husband dies. I have already contacted two law firms.

I see this is where we can make a difference. Doctors are human as well.

Personally the world heals by forgiveness and not litigation.

These are the choices we get to change this world.

Regards Tony

 

[Trailblazer]

feel compelled to offer comfort to Lewis Susan

Lewis is doing just fine. The doctor said so. I am the one who need comfort and through all the good people of this forum I an getting it.

 

[Trailblazer]

Personally the world heals by forgiveness and not litigation.

2: O SON OF SPIRIT! The best beloved of all things in My sight is Justice; turn not away therefrom if thou desirest Me, and neglect it not that I may confide in thee. By its aid thou shalt see with thine own eyes and not through the eyes of others, and shalt know of thine own knowledge and not through the knowledge of thy neighbor. Ponder this in thy heart; how it behooveth thee to be. Verily justice is My gift to thee and the sign of My loving-kindness. Set it then before thine eyes.
The Hidden Words of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 3-4

64: O OPPRESSORS ON EARTH! Withdraw your hands from tyranny, for I have pledged Myself not to forgive any man’s injustice. This is My covenant which I have irrevocably decreed in the preserved tablet and sealed with My seal.
Hidden Words of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 44

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Lewis is doing just fine. The doctor said so. I am the one who need comfort and through all the good people of this forum I an getting it.

The quote in my post was for you Susan.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

2: O SON OF SPIRIT! The best beloved of all things in My sight is Justice; turn not away therefrom if thou desirest Me, and neglect it not that I may confide in thee. By its aid thou shalt see with thine own eyes and not through the eyes of others, and shalt know of thine own knowledge and not through the knowledge of thy neighbor. Ponder this in thy heart; how it behooveth thee to be. Verily justice is My gift to thee and the sign of My loving-kindness. Set it then before thine eyes.
The Hidden Words of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 3-4

64: O OPPRESSORS ON EARTH! Withdraw your hands from tyranny, for I have pledged Myself not to forgive any man’s injustice. This is My covenant which I have irrevocably decreed in the preserved tablet and sealed with My seal.
Hidden Words of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 44

There is a difference between human mistakes and injustice Susan.

Thus I offer this again.

"One evening, an elderly Cherokee brave told his grandson about a battle that goes on inside people.

He said "my son, the battle is between two 'wolves' inside us all. One is evil. It is anger, envy, jealousy, sorrow, regret, greed, arrogance, self-pity, guilt, resentment, inferiority, lies, false pride, superiority, and ego.

The other is good. It is joy, peace love, hope serenity, humility, kindness, benevolence, empathy, generosity, truth, compassion and faith."

The grandson though about it for a minute and then asked his grandfather:

"Which wolf wins?..."

The old Cherokee simply replied, "the one that you feed"

The Nanticoke Indian Tribe, http://www.nanticokeindians.org/tale_of_two_wolves

I hope you can find your inner peace Susan.

Regards Tony

 

[Truthseeker]

The believers' belief in the afterlife is a pall. They 'believe' that are going to "a better place" so they have no desire to fight for their life.

You have said this more than once, but it is mind reading to assume this is why he is not fighting for his life. As you have said, he had no will to really live before this, before the prospect of his dying.

 

[Trailblazer]

There is a difference between human mistakes and injustice Susan.

No, not really. It is an injustice when human mistakes lead to a death. That is why we have courts of law.
I will allow the attorneys to determine if mistakes were made and if they say no, then I will drop it.

 

[Trailblazer]

You have said this more than once, but it is mind reading to assume this is why he is not fighting for his life. As you have said, he had no will to really live before this, before the prospect of his dying.

It is BECAUSE he believes in the glorious Baha'i afterlife that he has no will to live...
He was this way long before he got the cancer.

This belief in the afterlife is a pall.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

No, not really. It is an injustice when human mistakes lead to a death. That is why we have courts of law.
I will allow the attorneys to determine if mistakes were made and if they say no, then I will drop it.

Forgiveness is our choice Susan, not the Lawyer, it is not in their interest to forgive.

I can offer many stories of such forgiveness, it is a bounty for our selves as much as to the person/s we offer the forgiveness to.

I hope you can find peace in all this Susan.

You may note why I never became a councellor.

Regards Tony

 

[Truthseeker]

It is BECAUSE he believes in the glorious Baha'i afterlife that he has no will to live...
He was this way long before he got the cancer.

This belief in the afterlife is a pall.

It's not belief in the next life that can hurt us. We should be detached from the next life. As you said in an earlier post, we should concentrate on doing good in this life, and let the next life take care of itself.

 

[Truthseeker]

I can offer many stories of such forgiveness, it is a bounty for our selves as much as to the person/s we offer the forgiveness to.

Well, sometimes we need to sue for justice's sake.

 

[Trailblazer]

I was talking about your suffering here. You have been suffering for years. No, for everybody, death is not a welcome relief. It also may be get better for you, and you won't be suffering like this. It will get better than this for you. My belief is that after a while you will find that this will pass, and life will be better for you. Life is change, it never stands still.

I have no doubt it will get better because I will be able to move on with my life and there are many choices I could make given I healthy and set financially for life. Being married to Lewis has held me back from living because I was constrained by this lifestyle that was linked with him and his needs.

But even if it will get better eventually I will be in grief and you know how I do grief...
A cat is a cat but a human being you were married to for 37 years is different.

It is to our benefit to realize that whatever condition we are in will always change. It is only temporal, not eternal. It seems to be a Buddhist attitude. There is no “self” that is unchanging in a sense. Our world is always changing. There is no permanence except in the Uncreated.

I really need to find that Buddhist friend of mine. He is so enlightened. The Baha'is in my community are no help at all.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

It is BECAUSE he believes in the glorious Baha'i afterlife that he has no will to live...
He was this way long before he got the cancer.

This belief in the afterlife is a pall.

When Baha'u'llah offered a glimpse of the afterlife to a believer he ran into the sea and drowned himself. Baha'u'llah forgave that act against the law. We can use that example to guide us to know, that we all face a day when we leave this reality behind.

Sometimes life is such a burden to many souls, that they struggle to be here. In such cases, such as my wife, they just need to know that they will always have the support of their partners.

Regards Tony

 

[Trailblazer]

Forgiveness is our choice Susan, not the Lawyer, it is not in their interest to forgive.

It is not in my interest either. That is just your religious belief that comes from Abdu'l-Baha, but I do not share it.
Whenever there is a discrepancy I go by what Baha'u'llah wrote.

64: O OPPRESSORS ON EARTH! Withdraw your hands from tyranny, for I have pledged Myself not to forgive any man’s injustice. This is My covenant which I have irrevocably decreed in the preserved tablet and sealed with My seal.”
Hidden Words of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 44

 

[Trailblazer]

When Baha'u'llah offered a glimpse of the afterlife to a believer he ran into the sea and drowned himself. Baha'u'llah forgave that act against the law. We can use that example to guide us to know, that we all face a day when we leave this reality behind.

I know that story but it is just a story. You have no proof of any glorious afterlife, you just believe it all on faith.
That is your choice but you should not try to push that on others. It doesn't help, it only makes me feel worse.

Sometimes life is such a burden to many souls, that they struggle to be here. In such cases, such as my wife, they just need to know that they will always have the support of their partners.

Yes, they will have the support of their partner if they have a partner, but when that partner dies they will have no support anymore.

Do you even think about what you write? I was holding my own and now I am crying again.

 

[Trailblazer]

It's not belief in the next life that can hurt us. We should be detached from the next life. As you said in an earlier post, we should concentrate on doing good in this life, and let the next life take care of itself.

You are right Duane. The belief itself does not hurt us. Only when we hasten our demise to get to the next life does the belief hurt us.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Well, sometimes we need to sue for justice's sake.

Unfortunately, this process is now abused to the extreme.

There is wilful negligence and neglect and there are mistakes made because sometimes people just do not yet have the skills required.

I agree a balance is required. (Please note this comment)

When we reach our age though, we have already had a good innings, I would expect there is a lot happing within ourselves we do not know about. I always consider I am already 10 years past the expected average death age in Australia from the 1980's, which was 55.

Why blame death of the more elderly on the DR?

I feel sorry for them, that we put such a burden on their shoulders.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

That is your choice but you should not try to push that on others. It doesn't help, it only makes me feel worse.

It is like a painting on a wall. I just point to it and would never force anyone to look at it.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I know that story but it is just a story. You have no proof of any glorious afterlife, you just believe it all on faith.
That is your choice but you should not try to push that on others. It doesn't help, it only makes me feel worse.

Yes, they will have the support of their partner if they have a partner, but when that partner dies they will have no support anymore.

Do you even think about what you write? I was holding my own and now I am crying again.

It is indeed a great struggle Susan. As already offered I am no counsellor. Yet you speak very harshly towards Lewis.

That is what I am pointing out. My wife does that to me when she thinks I am not looking after myself. In the end I cannot stop her being angry at me, so catch 22?

So maybe it is a woman vs man thing?

I thought it best to stay away from this conversation, I should have gone with that wisdom and do so now.

Prayers to you both from me.

Regards Tony