Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
I see. So you do not understand poetic language. You should not take everything in the Bible so literally. Well, you already take it too literally since you believe the Adam and Eve myth.
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Did Adam and Eve and animals have genitals before the fall?
- Thread starter Kfox
- Start date
Yokefellow
Active Member
Do you know why they were not ashamed? It is because there were no reproductive organs to be ashamed of.
After partaking of the Forbidden Fruit, the couple were 'clothed with skins'. In other words, they were given corrupt physical bodies at that point.
Their new bodies came with reproductive organs. That is why they tried to cover them. They were trying to hide what was not there before.
Yokefellow
Active Member
If you believe that Death and the Tree of Life coexisted in the same Sacred Space, you are in contradiction with the rest of the Bible.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
I look at all of Genesis as a collection of morality tales.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
These verses are symbolic. They are not referring to actual food
dybmh
ויהי מבדיל בין מים למים
Well.... I liked what you said until you got the story out of order. This is the correct sequence.
They ate, then they were ashamed, then they created clothes for themself out of figs, then they confessed, then God made skins for them.
Important note, after they confessed is when God made skins for them. If you are intending to say that God made them corrupt garments, please let me know?
Either way, that doesn't mean they were lacking genitals at the end of Gen 2. They needed those for Adam to cleave to Eve and become 1 **flesh**. Literally 1 flesh. לְבָשָׂר אֶחָֽד That is the meaning of being his wife.
2:24
עַל־כֵּן יַֽעֲזָב־אִישׁ אֶת־אָבִיו וְאֶת־אִמּוֹ וְדָבַק בְּאִשְׁתּוֹ וְהָיוּ לְבָשָׂר אֶחָֽד׃
Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave to his wife; and they shall be one flesh.
2:25
וַיִּֽהְיוּ שְׁנֵיהֶם עֲרוּמִּים הָֽאָדָם וְאִשְׁתּוֹ וְלֹא יִתְבֹּשָֽׁשׁוּ׃
And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.
Yokefellow
Active Member
That is my point. Although there is a deeper meaning....
Luke 8:11
"Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God."
Think DNA.
dybmh
ויהי מבדיל בין מים למים
The rest of the bible? Are you sure it's not just a single verse from Romans? And isn't it a stretch to come up with a prohibition on death being in the garden concurrent with a tree in the center? Shouldn't God be making these sorts of choices?
Are you interpreting the Genesis myths literally? The Jews don't and it's their book.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
What do you think the Tree of Life is? Do you believe the Tree of Life was intended to confer physical life, so that everyone who was born would never die and instead they would live forever in a physical body on Earth? That would make everything that the Bible says about Heaven superfluous.
Christians believe that the Tree of Life was a source of ongoing physical life, that Adam and Eve were designed to live forever, but to do so they likely needed to eat from the tree of life.
The Meaning of the Tree of Life
“God told Adam not to eat from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, with the words, "For on the day that you eat of it, you will surely die". But there was no such prohibition concerning the Tree of Life. If Adam had eaten from that tree, he would have lived forever and never died. Instead he and his wife ended up eating from the forbidden tree, because they listened to a voice which tempted them to doubt the goodness of God. This is Satan’s tactic today with us. We neglect the LIFE God gives and end up trying to attain it by going on a path forbidden by God.
How good it would have been had Adam instead chosen to eat from the Tree of Life! God had said, "Of every tree in the garden you may freely eat…" Adam could have eaten from the Tree of Life! In doing so, he would have known God in an even greater way, and would never have died in any way! If he had eaten of the Tree of Life, he would never have been interested in the forbidden tree. But having NEGLECTED the tree of life, it was really only a matter of time before he would fall to the temptation of eating the forbidden fruit.”
The Meaning of the Tree of Life | Christian Faith
What is the Tree of Life?
“In Eden, the tree appears to have been a source of ongoing physical life. The presence of the tree of life suggests a supernatural provision of life as Adam and Eve ate the fruit their Creator provided. Adam and Eve were designed to live forever, but to do so they likely needed to eat from the tree of life. Once they sinned, they were banned from the Garden, separated from the tree, and subject to physical death, just as they had experienced spiritual death. Since Eden, death has reigned throughout history. But on the New Earth, our access to the tree of life is forever restored. (Notice that there’s no mention of a tree of the knowledge of good and evil to test us. The redeemed have already known sin and its devastation; they will desire it no more.)”
What is the Tree of Life?
By contrast to the Christian belief, Baha’is believe that the tree of life is symbolic for the Word of God which bestows eternal life. This tree of life was the position of the Reality of Christ; through His Manifestation it was planted and adorned with everlasting fruits. Eternal life is a quality of life, of being near to God; it is not physical life, but spiritual life. God never created the physical body to live forever. Once the physical body dies, the soul leaves the body and ascends to the spiritual world where it takes on a new form comprised of spiritual elements that exist in the heavenly realm.
It is a tree of life to all who grasp it, and whoever holds on to it is happy; its ways are ways of pleasantness, and all it paths are peace. (Proverbs 3:17-18)
“The tree of life is the highest degree of the world of existence: the position of the Word of God, and the supreme Manifestation. Therefore, that position has been preserved; and, at the appearance of the most noble supreme Manifestation, it became apparent and clear. For the position of Adam, with regard to the appearance and manifestation of the divine perfections, was in the embryonic condition; the position of Christ was the condition of maturity and the age of reason; and the rising of the Greatest Luminary 4 was the condition of the perfection of the essence and of the qualities. This is why in the supreme Paradise the tree of life is the expression for the center of absolutely pure sanctity—that is to say, of the divine supreme Manifestation. From the days of Adam until the days of Christ, They spoke little of eternal life and the heavenly universal perfections. This tree of life was the position of the Reality of Christ; through His manifestation it was planted and adorned with everlasting fruits.”
Some Answered Questions, p. 124
From: 30: ADAM AND EVE
Yokefellow
Active Member
*Fig leaves.
Just as an FYI, here is what I believe the 'clothes' were...
Job 10:11
"Thou hast clothed me with skin and flesh, and hast fenced me with bones and sinews."
If you watch 25:25 to 26:30 in this video, this Rabbi explains it well...
Yes. That is what I believe.
By partaking of the Forbidden Zygote, Adam and his wife made a Covenant to be clothed with (to be birthed into) 'Beast Genetics'.
God complied with their request.
That verse has more than one meaning.
dybmh
ויהי מבדיל בין מים למים
I am aware... I already told you I liked what you said until you got the sequence of the story wrong. I'm concerned that you have not acknowledged the mistake.
Since it's not a zygote in the story, I'm starting to think this is a revised spin-off of what was written.
Maybe, maybe not. Let's assume it's true.
That means if you have chosen a different meaning compared to the meaning I have chosen, the literal meaning, the meaning I have chosen isn't wrong. Agreed?
Yokefellow
Active Member
The way I interpret Scripture is to compare my interpretations with the rest of the Bible.
In the New Heavens, New Earth and New Jerusalem there is no more death...
1 Corinthians 15:26
"The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death."
Yet, the Tree of Life is there. Therefore, the Tree of Life is not meant to 'prolong aging' or 'keep someone alive' because that would be redundant.
The Tree of Life is a one-shot deal. Once partaken, that person has become Born Again in every literal sense. It is synonymous with Conception.
The difference between the Zygote of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil vs. the Zygote of the Tree of Life is that one conceives a body of corruption while the other conceives a body of Glory.
Adam and his wife chose to incarnate into the body of corruption. Free will was there.
Yokefellow
Active Member
I am quite the literalist. That seems to bother a lot of people... lol.
dybmh
ויהי מבדיל בין מים למים
You don't know what The Jews do. Please stay in your own lane.
Yokefellow
Active Member
It is.
The literal meaning of 'two shall be one' can simply mean to be married to one another...
Mark 10:6-9
"But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female. For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and cleave to his wife; And they twain shall be one flesh: so then they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder."
Note that the context is about divorce.
dybmh
ויהי מבדיל בין מים למים
You said:
... in contradiction with the rest of the bible.
Do you know what those words mean? I asked if this was actually the rest of the bible or just 1 verse. And you brought me 1 verse.
Hopefully there will be an acknowledgement of the mistake. I don't think you should be making grandiose statements about contradictions like this. The rest of the bible? From Gen 2 through Revelation? That's the rest.
I made a resolution not to argue with people who are unable to discern fact from fiction. Are you someone whom I can have a *real* honest conversation, or not?
dybmh
ויהי מבדיל בין מים למים
No. That's not what is written. My friend. The prohibition never says anything about eating the fruit. The word fruit does not exist in the law given in Gen 2:17.
וּמֵעֵץ הַדַּעַת טוֹב וָרָע לֹא תֹאכַל מִמֶּנּוּ כִּי בְּיוֹם אֲכָלְךָ מִמֶּנּוּ מוֹת תָּמֽוּת׃
But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, you shall not eat of it; for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.
Where is this zygote in the prohibition?
1). Now you've flip-flopped. First you're saying it can mean more than one thing. Now you seem to be flopping away from that. So which is it? Can the verse have more than 1 meaning or not?
2). This verse from Mark is completely irrelevant towards whether or not a couple is considered husband and wife *lacking* consummation.
Yokefellow
Active Member
Yokefellow
Active Member
My apologies. I must not have understood the question.
Maybe if I clarify...
To suggest that the Tree of Life is something that must be partaken of on a continual basis means that the moment one does not partake, they will die or 'begin to age and eventually die'.
Therefore, a teaching like that implies that Death existed before the Fall. It also implies that Death still exists in the New Heavens and New Earth.
I believe Adam and his wife were immortal to begin with. They chose to become mortal by partaking of the Forbidden Fruit.