Did Adam and Eve and animals have genitals before the fall?

[Yokefellow]

The verse means that they would surely die spiritually, not die physically.
And they did die spiritually on that day.

You added the word 'Spiritual' to make it say what you wanted.

Adding unto the Word is a no-no.

 

[Yokefellow]

In the Bible the definition of the word ' day' does Not always mean a 24 hr. day.
Even in English we speak of grandfather's day and Noah's day and know that is Not about a literal 24 hr. day.
Please also notice that ALL of the creative days are summed up by the single word ' day ' at Genesis 2:4
So, that 'figure of speech' carries more than one literal 24 hr. day.
A thousand years in God's eyes are like a day. See Psalm 90:4 and 2nd Peter 3:8
Thus, Adam and Eve died within that time frame of a thousand-year day time period.
Notice too that No one lived past the age of one thousand years - Genesis 5:5; 5:27

I appreciate your response @URAVIP2ME .

I interpret 'day' as being a literal twenty-four hour or less period of time. Nothing in the context suggests that the word day needs to be changed to 'a thousand years'. That again is adding to the Word.

In fact, we have the same issue here...

Genesis 2:4
"These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens"

Is the above a thousand years? Does it mean 'back in the day'? You say it means 'all six days of Creation'. How often must we change the word 'day' to make it say what the Church wants it to say?

Note that Earth was made on the Third Day, which means the above verse is establishing a timeline. We are on Day Three when no plants or people existed yet...

Genesis 2:5 (New Living Translation)
"Neither wild plants nor grains were growing on the earth. For the LORD God had not yet sent rain to water the earth, and there were no people to cultivate the soil."

OK, so here we are on the Third Day *before* plants or Man existed. So, what happens next?

Genesis 2:7
"And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul."

Oh look. An inconvenient Truth for our Tanakh friends. It would seem Adam was created on the Third Day and not the Sixth Day.

Oops! Looks like they have some explaining to do.

 

[Trailblazer]

There is no such thing as 'Spiritual Death'... whatever that means.

Of course there is. Anyone who does not have spiritual life is spiritually dead. Spiritual life is eternal life.

Christians believe that “he shall live”and “shall never die” in the verses below refer to the physical body which they believe will rise from the grave. What it means is that they will never die because they will have eternal life. Eternal life is nearness to God which comes from believing in Jesus.

When the Jews failed to recognize Jesus when He came down from the heaven of the Will of God and was born from the womb of Mary, they remained spiritually dead. That is why Jesus said He was the resurrection, because He resurrected the Cause of God from what it had formerly been in the days of Moses.

The following verses are referring to a spiritual resurrection, rising to spiritual life, which is synonymous with eternal life. This verses do not refer to resurrection or the physical life of the body. The body once dead remains dead, it does not RISE from the grave.

John 11:25-26 Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live. And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?”

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

1 John 5:13 I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.

John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

All souls continue to exist in the spiritual world after the body dies but not all souls have eternal life (everlasting life).

 

[exchemist]

You added the word 'Spiritual' to make it say what you wanted.

Adding unto the Word is a no-no.

This is manifestly not the case, at least in Christianity - and, if I'm not mistaken, in Judaism. Interpretation of scripture has always been necessary, particularly for these allegorical myths at the start of the Old Testament.

 

[Trailblazer]

You added the word 'Spiritual' to make it say what you wanted.

Adding unto the Word is a no-no.

The verse does not say "surely die physically". You just assume that whenever the Bible says die it means die physically.

What happened on the day Adam and Eve sinned? They came under the judgment and the condemnation of God. And that is what death is in the Bible.

A Biblical Definition of Death

“Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.” John 5:24 The Son of God has life in himself (5:26), and he is able to give life to whomever he will (5:21).

openthebible.org

The Bible's Definitions of Death

First, we need to maintain the distinction, as Scripture does, between physical death and spiritual death. The Bible speaks of the two distinctly, but they share one common characteristic. The Biblical definition of death - whether physical or spiritual - is not non-existence, but separation.

Physical death is, as I explained in another article, the separation of body and soul. "Then the dust will return to the earth as it was, and the spirit will return to God who gave it" (Ecclesiastes 12:7).

Spiritual death means that man, apart from salvation in Christ, is separated from God. All who are sinners in Adam died in Adam, just as all who are justified in Christ are made alive in Christ (1 Corinthians 15:22). Paul speaks of the unsaved as being "alienated (Greek apellotriomenoi, estranged or shut out) from the life of God" (Ephesians 4:18). This is true even though the unsaved person has physical life.

What Is the Biblical Definition of Death?

People put forth many definitions of death that are off the mark. We who are subject to death because of our sin must understand God's definition in His Word.

www.teachingtheword.org

 

[URAVIP2ME]

The Garden of Eden before the Fall was not this physical corrupt world you are seeing now. It was a Spiritual realm similar to how Heaven will be......................

I find angels lived in the spirit realm of Heaven.
Those spirit angels were capable of being heavenly spiritual beings.
In Scripture the fallen angels turned themselves into devils forsaking their spiritually ( Not their spirit bodies )
They were evicted from Heaven and now create behind-the-scenes trouble on Earth. (see Rev. 12:12,9)
So, yes, before the Fall this now physical corrupt world was Not a corrupted world but a beautiful paradisical world/ Earth.
Jesus is to come and undo this now physically corrupted world ( 2nd Timothy 3:1-5,13; Rev. 22:20,2 )
And this now Earth will become a beautiful Earth as described in Isaiah 35th chapter.
Thus, spiritual physical people are the meek who will inherit the Earth as promised at Matthew 5:5; Psalms 37:9-11; 22:26

 

[Yokefellow]

Of course there is. Anyone who does not have spiritual life is spiritually dead. Spiritual life is eternal life.

Where are your verses? There is no 'Spiritual Death' in the Bible. It is dogma.

John 11:25-26 Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live. And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?”

The above verse is referring to the Second Death. Those who believe will not be thrown into the Lake of Fire.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

1 John 5:13 I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.

John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

Again, the Saved will not taste of the Second Death.

All souls continue to exist in the spiritual world after the body dies but not all souls have eternal life (everlasting life).

The Glorified Body is physical, not a ghostly apparition...

Luke 24:39
"Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have."

The Unsaved will have a similar body.

 

[Trailblazer]

There are only two kinds of death in the Bible...

1. First Death/Death of the Body
2. Second Death/Death of the Soul

First Death and Second Death is nothing more than a made up Christian doctrine.
There is no such thing as a Second Death. The soul is immortal it cannot ever die.
Whenever the Bible says that the soul that sins will die, it means that soul will be separated from God, not that the soul will cease to exist.

The soul that sins will not have eternal life, which is a state of the soul that is close to God.
That soul will be spiritually dead, but it will continue to EXIST in the spiritual realm after the body dies. A soul cannot die because it is not physical. Only physical things die.

When Jesus referred to eternal life, He was not referring to physical life of the body. He was referring a quality of life, spiritual life, loving God and being close to God.

The soul is eternal, the body perishes. That is why Jesus said: John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life

All the verses below refer to eternal life of the soul, not life of the physical body.

John 11:25-26 Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live. And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?”

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

1 John 5:13 I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.

John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

All souls will continue to exist in the spiritual world after the body dies but not all souls will have eternal life (everlasting life).
Eternal life refers to a “quality” of life, nearness to God which, according to Jesus, comes from believing in Him.

“The immortality of the spirit is mentioned in the Holy Books; it is the fundamental basis of the divine religions. Now punishments and rewards are said to be of two kinds: first, the rewards and punishments of this life; second, those of the other world. But the paradise and hell of existence are found in all the worlds of God, whether in this world or in the spiritual heavenly worlds. Gaining these rewards is the gaining of eternal life. That is why Christ said, “Act in such a way that you may find eternal life, and that you may be born of water and the spirit, so that you may enter into the Kingdom.” 2”
Some Answered Questions, p. 223

The souls of persons who are distant from God will not have eternal life; although their soul will continue to exist in the spiritual world after their physical body dies they will be “as dead” compared to those souls who are close to God.

“In the same way, the souls who are veiled from God, although they exist in this world and in the world after death, are, in comparison with the holy existence of the children of the Kingdom of God, nonexisting and separated from God.”
Some Answered Questions, p. 243

 

[Yokefellow]

This is manifestly not the case, at least in Christianity - and, if I'm not mistaken, in Judaism. Interpretation of scripture has always been necessary, particularly for these allegorical myths at the start of the Old Testament.

Hi @exchemist . I am not sure what you mean.

God did not say "thou shalt surely spiritually die".

 

[URAVIP2ME]

.............................The Bible's Definitions of Death
First, we need to maintain the distinction, as Scripture does, between physical death and spiritual death. The Bible speaks of the two distinctly, but they share one common characteristic. The Biblical definition of death - whether physical or spiritual - is not non-existence, but separation.
Physical death is, as I explained in another article, the separation of body and soul. "Then the dust will return to the earth as it was, and the spirit will return to God who gave IT" (Ecclesiastes 12:7)

I find the Bible's definition of death is defined in the Bible itself.
Jesus based his teachings on the old Hebrew Scriptures often referring to them.
Jesus likened death to 'sleep' at John 11:11-14
Since Jesus was well educated in the old Hebrew Scriptures then Jesus was referring back to the OT.
Scriptures such as Psalm 6:5; Psalm 13:3; Psalm 115:17; Isaiah 38:18; Ecclesiastes 9:5 that the dead know nothing.
Nothing but unconscious sleep until Resurrection Day. ( Resurrection Day meaning Jesus' coming Millennium-Long Day governing over Earth )
This is why the ' future tense ' is used at Acts 24:15 that there ' will be ' a resurrection.......

For those called to govern with Christ in Heaven they have that first or earlier resurrection to Heaven - see Rev. 20:6; 5:9-10
The majority of mankind can be the humble meek who will inherit the Earth - Matt. 5:5; Psalm 37:9-11; Psalm 22:26

Just as 'school spirit' is Not a person, or a high-spirited horse is Not a spirit horse, but one's spirit (IT) returns to God. - Ecc. 12:7 B (it)
One's spirit of life "IT" returns to God in the same way a foreclosed house returns to the owner.
The house does Not move or go anywhere but any future life for the house now lies in the owner's hands.
Resurrected life to Heaven first for some, and future resurrected eternal life on Earth for others.

 

[Trailblazer]

Where are your verses? There is no 'Spiritual Death' in the Bible. It is dogma.

There is no First Death and Second Death in the Bible. It is dogma.
The Bible refers to a Second Death, but what you believe that means is dogma.

The Bible's Definitions of Death

First, we need to maintain the distinction, as Scripture does, between physical death and spiritual death. The Bible speaks of the two distinctly, but they share one common characteristic. The Biblical definition of death - whether physical or spiritual - is not non-existence, but separation.

Physical death is, as I explained in another article, the separation of body and soul. "Then the dust will return to the earth as it was, and the spirit will return to God who gave it" (Ecclesiastes 12:7

Spiritual death means that man, apart from salvation in Christ, is separated from God. All who are sinners in Adam died in Adam, just as all who are justified in Christ are made alive in Christ (1 Corinthians 15:22). Paul speaks of the unsaved as being "alienated (Greek apellotriomenoi, estranged or shut out) from the life of God" (Ephesians 4:18). This is true even though the unsaved person has physical life. What Is the Biblical Definition of Death?

The above verse is referring to the Second Death. Those who believe will be thrown into the Lake of Fire.

There is no such thing as a Lake of Fire. Hell is simply eternal separation from God.

The Glorified Body is physical, not a ghostly apparition...

Luke 24:39
"Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have."

The Glorified Body is a spiritual body.

After the physical body dies, our soul will assume another form, a spiritual body.
The physical body cannot exist in the Kingdom of God in which is in heaven. That is why it needs to be transformed into a spiritual body.

1 Corinthians 15 New Living Translation

40 There are also bodies in the heavens and bodies on the earth. The glory of the heavenly bodies is different from the glory of the earthly bodies.

44 They are buried as natural human bodies, but they will be raised as spiritual bodies. For just as there are natural bodies, there are also spiritual bodies.

50 What I am saying, dear brothers and sisters, is that our physical bodies cannot inherit the Kingdom of God. These dying bodies cannot inherit what will last forever.

51 But let me reveal to you a wonderful secret. We will not all die, but we will all be transformed!
1 Corinthians 15 New Living Translation

44 They are buried as natural human bodies, but they will be raised as spiritual bodies. For just as there are natural bodies, there are also spiritual bodies.

51 But let me reveal to you a wonderful secret. We will not all die, but we will all be transformed!

 

[Trailblazer]

God did not say "thou shalt surely spiritually die".

God did not say "thou shalt surely physically die".

 

[Yokefellow]

The verse does not say "surely die physically". You just assume that whenever the Bible says die it means die physically.

I can play that game too.

You assume that whenever the Bible says, 'surely die' it means 'die spiritually'.

Let us see if that works...

Genesis 20:7
"Now therefore restore the man his wife; for he is a prophet, and he shall pray for thee, and thou shalt live: and if thou restore her not, know thou that thou shalt surely die, thou, and all that are thine."

Nope. Spiritually die does not work in the above verse.

Let us try another...

Numbers 26:65
"For the LORD had said of them, They shall surely die in the wilderness. And there was not left a man of them, save Caleb the son of Jephunneh, and Joshua the son of Nun."

Nope. Spiritually die does not work in the above verse.

Judges 13:22
"And Manoah said unto his wife, We shall surely die, because we have seen God."

Nope. Spiritually die does not work in the above verse.

I can do this for all twenty-two verses. 'Surely die' always means physical death... always. Moreover, it implies that the person(s) being referred to are disobedient to God and will go to Hell.

 

[Yokefellow]

In Scripture the fallen angels turned themselves into devils forsaking their spiritually ( Not their spirit bodies )
They were evicted from Heaven and now create behind-the-scenes trouble on Earth. (see Rev. 12:12,9)

I love that topic. Can't wait to discuss further.

 

[Yokefellow]

First Death and Second Death is nothing more than a made up Christian doctrine.
There is no such thing as a Second Death.

Ouch.

Second Death is a phrase used several times in the New Testament...

Revelation 21:8
"But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death."

The soul is immortal it cannot ever die.

The Soul can be destroyed..

Matthew 10:28
"And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell."

I will stop there for now.

 

[Yokefellow]

If that is the case then we have some issues that need to be addressed.

How about we start with Genesis 2:17...

Genesis 2:17
"But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die."

A simple, literal interpretation teaches that Adam and his wife should have died on that very day, yet they did not.

How do you explain that? Did the verse just lie to us?

Still waiting for @blü 2 to address the above.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

...................The above verse is referring to the Second Death. Those who believe will be thrown into the Lake of Fire.
Again, the Saved will not taste of the Second Death.
The Glorified Body is physical, not a ghostly apparition...
Luke 24:39
"Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have."
The Unsaved will have a similar body.

The un-saved are gone 'destroyed forever' according to Psalms 92:7; 104:35; 145:20
Please notice Matthew 24:13 because the one who endures to the end is saved. ( Not endure, Not saved )
The ' saved ' include the 'sheep' at the time of Matthew 25:31-33,37.
They are saved alive to be here to see calendar Day One of Jesus' coming 1,000 year reign over Earth for a thousand years.

 

[exchemist]

Hi @exchemist . I am not sure what you mean.

God did not say "thou shalt surely spiritually die".

How do you know that? All you know is what the words in the old myth say.

 

[Yokefellow]

I find the Bible's definition of death is defined in the Bible itself.

Agreed.

Jesus likened death to 'sleep' at John 11:11-14

Agreed.

Scriptures such as Psalm 6:5; Psalm 13:3; Psalm 115:17; Isaiah 38:18; Ecclesiastes 9:5 that the dead know nothing.

What does 'know nothing' really mean?

Job 8:9
"For we are but of yesterday, and know nothing, because our days upon earth are a shadow"

John 11:49
"And one of them, named Caiaphas, being the high priest that same year, said unto them, Ye know nothing at all"

1 Corinthians 4:4
"For I know nothing by myself; yet am I not hereby justified: but he that judgeth me is the Lord."

Those that are alive 'know nothing' as well.

Nothing but unconscious sleep until Resurrection Day.

Disagree.

Those that are asleep are conscious in Abraham's Bosom and are having pleasant dreams.

Of course, there is the Rich Man and Lazarus which I assume you believe we should just erase those pesky verses or call them 'Parables' as to mean ignore them completely.

 

[Yokefellow]

The un-saved are gone 'destroyed forever' according to Psalms 92:7; 104:35; 145:20

What does 'forever' mean?

Jonah 2:6 (New International Version)
"To the roots of the mountains I sank down; the earth beneath barred me in forever. But you, LORD my God, brought my life up from the pit."

Poor Jonah is still in that Great Fish.

I hope he gets out one day.