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Did God Create This ???
- Thread starter FFH
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Don Penguinoini
Modi.
This is the problem. Guys like you are completely ignorant of religion and just know everything about Christianity. You think that God must be exactly like described in Christianity.
There are other religions outside Christianity... Such as MINE, for example. Which hold a human responsible for his actions and the actions on his/her planet.
Apex
Somewhere Around Nothing
Are you serious?
camanintx
Well-Known Member
As has been stated repeatedly on this forum, proof is for mathematics and alcohol. Since you cannot "prove" that the Earth is 13,000 years old no more than we can "prove" it is 4.5 billion years old, we can only argue what the evidence indicates.
You have been given several examples where the evidence indicates a very old Earth, but other than "you can't prove it", you have not shown how it could be otherwise. Unless you are willing to present some evidence of your own that Earth is only 13,000 years old, why should any reasonable person accept your claim?
Berachiah Ben Yisrael
Active Member
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Apex
Somewhere Around Nothing
We have not practiced polygamy for over one hundred years. And what doctrine are you talking about?
Berachiah Ben Yisrael
Active Member
Not all of your faith agreed to abstain that which was a part of Mormon practice since the beginning of Mormonism unless I have been lied to by others of the Mormon faith. Also are you saying that your women as well had multiple husbands? That is Polygamy. It encompasses both aspects of the same thing. Or did you, more correctly, mean Polygyny and not Polyandry as well? Please clarify.
Apex
Somewhere Around Nothing
I think you are confusing us with small fundamentalist sects who broke away from our Church long ago. If someone is found to be practicing polygamy in the LDS Church they are excommunicated.
Berachiah Ben Yisrael
Active Member
No, I'm not mistaking anything. It has been reported that well over 30,000 middle-classed Mormons practice Polygyny in the US alone. Thats more than a small section. As far as breaking away I would remind you that it was the doctrine that both Joseph Smith Jr. as well as Brigham Young Promoted. Smith being the founder of said belief (LDS) and Young a president of LDS. It sounds like those that would reject and denounce the founder and a president of their own religion shouldn't be calling themselves by the same name. If you do not follow that which was originally and documented as being part of being a specific belief then you really cannot be called the same because you are different. Thats like an atheist calling themselves a christian or a jew. What an "oxymoron" and not "Mormon". No pun intended.
Apex
Somewhere Around Nothing
I see your only intentions were hostility. Have a nice day.No, I'm not mistaking anything. It has been reported that well over 30,000 middle-classed Mormons practice Polygyny in the US alone. Thats more than a small section. As far as breaking away I would remind you that it was the doctrine that both Joseph Smith Jr. as well as Brigham Young Promoted. Smith being the founder of said belief (LDS) and Young a president of LDS. It sounds like those that would reject and denounce the founder and a president of their own religion shouldn't be calling themselves by the same name. If you do not follow that which was originally and documented as being part of being a specific belief then you really cannot be called the same because you are different. Thats like an atheist calling themselves a christian or a jew. What an "oxymoron" and not "Mormon". No pun intended.
Berachiah Ben Yisrael
Active Member
You know, this is the same thing I would expect from anyone who has no grounds in which to stand on for their accusations. Always attacking truth. Hostility was not of mine but of yours claiming to be something that does not hold with the founder and a elect of your own self proclaimed belief. But hey, Why not? With the upteen different man made religions that there are, whats one more? Its just you shouldn't call it the same as something that has already been established many, many years ago by many, many others. The LDS doctrine holds that plural marriage is something that will be in the spiritual and it was commanded by direct divine comunication that it be observed here on earth to ready yourselves for what was to come. Not to adhere to strict command of the divine inspiration of the said founder of a faith you yourself by your own admonition said to believe in makes one believe that if what was said of said founder is not to be accepted but yet denounced all of what he said must now come into question. Is Mormonism all about picking and choosing what they like to hear or believe and disregard what they don't like? Sounds kinda wrong to me.
You, by all means, have a nice day as well. You need it.
FFH
Veteran Member
Jacob 2: 27
Wherefore, my brethren, hear me, and hearken to the word of the Lord: For there shall not any man among you have save it be one wife; and concubines he shall have none;
Jacob 3: 5
Behold, the Lamanites your brethren, whom ye hate because of their filthiness and the cursing which hath come upon their skins, are more righteous than you; for they have not forgotten the commandment of the Lord, which was given unto our father—that they should have save it were one wife, and concubines they should have none, and there should not be whoredoms committed among them.
Mormon.org - Home
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
www.LDS.org/scriptures
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FFH
Veteran Member
Niagra Falls has been eroding the canyon wall (flowing) for about 12,000 years, according to geologists.
To say that the earth has been through several ice ages would still not explain the short 12,000 year erosion time span of the Niagra river canyon wall. The earth is proposed to be millions or billions of years old by evolutionists, if that were the case, then for millions or billions of years the earth had to have been frozen for all of that time, minus a total of 12,000 years.
The Niagara River is a connecting channel between two Great Lakes, Erie and Ontario.
According to park geologists, Niagara Falls has moved back 7 miles in 12,500 years from the canyon rim where it started eroding
Source
There is a rim from which the river began eroding from, in which many believe is an indication of the starting point of creation, when the river began eroding the rim until the present day...
Could this be an accurate way to date the earth? Many will say no way, it's just the result of a 40 million year old glacier which started to melt 12,500 years ago....
First 1,000 year period of creation (starts 11,000 BC) 13,000 years ago
Earth was without form and void
Water was upon the whole face of the earth
Light created
Second 1,000 year period starts 10,000 BC (12,000 years ago)
Firmament/heavens/skies created
Waters divided between earth and the firmament/heavens/skies
Rains start falling and Rivers start flowing
Third 1,000 year period starts 9,000 BC (11,000 years ago)
Land and waters divided
Dry land appears and seas form
Plants and trees of all kinds created
Fourth 1,000 year period starts 8,000 BC (10,000 years ago)
Sun, moon and stars created
Day and night begins
Fifth 1,000 year period starts 7,000 BC
All creatures of the sea and skies created
Sixth 1,000 year period starts 6,000 BC
All creatures of the land created
Adam and Eve created
Seventh 1,000 year period starts 5,000 BC
God rested from all his labors
Adam and Eve commanded not to eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil
4,000 B.C. (6,000 years ago)
Adam and Eve fell
33 B.C. (2,000 years ago)
Christ dies for the world's sins
2,000 A.D.
Christ begins to prepare the earth and it's inhabitants for his 1,000 year reign
First day of creation (waters upon the face of the earth) 13,000 to 12,000 years ago
Niagra Falls 12,500 years old
Water starts flowing 12,000 years ago
Vegetation created (third day of creation) 11,000 to 10,000 years ago
Oldest living tree ~ 9,550 years old
Adam and Eve Fell (cast out of the Garden of Eden) ~ 6,000 years ago
Christ atones for the sins of the world ~ 2,000 years ago
Christ will rule and reign on earth for the next 1,000 years
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Berachiah Ben Yisrael
Active Member
FFH
Veteran Member
Polygamy is allowed, IF THE LORD COMMANDS IT, as in the case of Abraham and Jacob, and in the LDS faith in it's early years.You know, this is the same thing I would expect from anyone who has no grounds in which to stand on for their accusations. Always attacking truth. Hostility was not of mine but of yours claiming to be something that does not hold with the founder and a elect of your own self proclaimed belief. But hey, Why not? With the upteen different man made religions that there are, whats one more? Its just you shouldn't call it the same as something that has already been established many, many years ago by many, many others. The LDS doctrine holds that plural marriage is something that will be in the spiritual and it was commanded by direct divine comunication that it be observed here on earth to ready yourselves for what was to come. Not to adhere to strict command of the divine inspiration of the said founder of a faith you yourself by your own admonition said to believe in makes one believe that if what was said of said founder is not to be accepted but yet denounced all of what he said must now come into question. Is Mormonism all about picking and choosing what they like to hear or believe and disregard what they don't like? Sounds kinda wrong to me.
You, by all means, have a nice day as well. You need it.
About a hundred years ago THE LORD REVOKED THE COMMANDMENT, AND WE ARE NO LONGER ALLOWED TO PRACTICE POLYGAMY, in the LDS faith, and those who refused to obey the commandment, to have "save it be one wife," broke away from the LDS church and started their own religion (Mormon Fundamentalism) who are a completely seperate religion altogether, completely seperate for the LDS faith. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and Mormon.org - Home.
Jacob 2 (Book of Mormon)
26 Wherefore, I the Lord God will not suffer that this people shall do like unto them of old.
27 Wherefore, my brethren, hear me, and hearken to the word of the Lord: For there shall not any man among you have save it be onewife; and concubines he shall have none;
28 For I, the Lord God, delight in the chastity of women. And whoredoms are an abomination before me; thus saith the Lord of Hosts.
29 Wherefore, this people shall keep my commandments, saith the Lord of Hosts, or cursed be the land for their sakes.
30 ~ For if I will, saith the Lord of Hosts, raise up seed unto me, I will command my people; otherwise they shall hearken unto these things.
This last verse means/states that if the Lord needs to raise up "seed" (a people) "unto" himself, he will "command" his "people" to take more than one wife, otherwise they are to "harken" unto his words and take "save it be one wife".
In the LDS faith this is currently the status of the commandment we are to live under.
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FFH
Veteran Member
No, of course not, I've just posted an explanation, which I'm sure you've read by now.
I'm relatied to Joseph Smith, through Hyrum Smith, his brother, who died with him in Carthage, Illinois, when they were murdered
Hyrum Smith is one of my direct blood line relatives.
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Father Heathen
Veteran Member
Niagra Falls has been eroding the canyon wall (flowing) for about 12,000 years, according to geologists.
To say that the earth has been through several ice ages would still not explain the short 12,000 year erosion time span of the Niagra river canyon wall. The earth is proposed to be millions or billions of years old by evolutionists, if that were the case, then for millions or billions of years the earth had to have been frozen for all of that time, minus a total of 12,000 years.
The Niagara River is a connecting channel between two Great Lakes, Erie and Ontario.
According to park geologists, Niagara Falls has moved back 7 miles in 12,500 years from the canyon rim where it started eroding
Source
There is a rim from which the river began eroding from, in which many believe is an indication of the starting point of creation, when the river began eroding the rim until the present day...
Could this be an accurate way to date the earth? Many will say no way, it's just the result of a 40 million year old glacier which started to melt 12,500 years ago....
First 1,000 year period of creation (starts 11,000 BC) 13,000 years ago
Earth was without form and void
Water was upon the whole face of the earth
Light created
Second 1,000 year period starts 10,000 BC (12,000 years ago)
Firmament/heavens/skies created
Waters divided between earth and the firmament/heavens/skies
Rains start falling and Rivers start flowing
Third 1,000 year period starts 9,000 BC (11,000 years ago)
Land and waters divided
Dry land appears and seas form
Plants and trees of all kinds created
Fourth 1,000 year period starts 8,000 BC (10,000 years ago)
Sun, moon and stars created
Day and night begins
Fifth 1,000 year period starts 7,000 BC
All creatures of the sea and skies created
Sixth 1,000 year period starts 6,000 BC
All creatures of the land created
Adam and Eve created
Seventh 1,000 year period starts 5,000 BC
God rested from all his labors
Adam and Eve commanded not to eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil
4,000 B.C. (6,000 years ago)
Adam and Eve fell
33 B.C. (2,000 years ago)
Christ dies for the world's sins
2,000 A.D.
Christ begins to prepare the earth and it's inhabitants for his 1,000 year reign
First day of creation (waters upon the face of the earth) 13,000 to 12,000 years ago
Niagra Falls 12,500 years old
Water starts flowing 12,000 years ago
Vegetation created (third day of creation) 11,000 to 10,000 years ago
Oldest living tree ~ 9,550 years old
Adam and Eve Fell (cast out of the Garden of Eden) ~ 6,000 years ago
Christ atones for the sins of the world ~ 2,000 years ago
Christ will rule and reign on earth for the next 1,000 years
But who the hell is actually trying to claim that Niagara Falls is equally as old as the earth? That's like saying the earth can only be 28 years old because I'm only 28 years old. Do you honestly think streams, rivers and bodies of water are static? They form, shift, expand, and recede just like everything else. The fact that Niagara Falls is much, much younger than the earth itself simply means it just has something in common with every single other feature on earth's surface. Ever heard of plate tectonics, for example? Just because you're incapable of grasping and comprehending things doesn't make them untrue. The world is not bound by the limitations of your mind.
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Berachiah Ben Yisrael
Active Member
O.k. I stand to be corrected. I should have known that there was a command and now it has been taken away. Where is it that the command was revoked other than by preasure from the US government? I would like to see what prophet LDS follows other than the one claimed as Joseph Smith. Excuse my ignorence as I am hearing all this for the first time. I always thought ending a practice from the founder and a elect at the same time as a government is threating taking away land and funds was such a large stretch to say the least when trying to make the argument that it was a divine revocation and not that of the US Government making it a law of the land by the disgust and power of the ruling theologians of the various christian denominations of that time. Then again I have been wrong before. Please enlighten me.
FFH
Veteran Member
I'll answer that for Apex...
Do you not take the Mosaic law seriously as well ???
Do you not take the Old Testament law seriously ?????
Abraham had more than one wife. Abraham was a Polygamist and so was his grandson Jacob, otherwise there would be no such thing as the 12 tribes of Israel.
People seem to forget this one HUGE part of Biblical history.
Doctrine and Covenants 132 (LDS scripture/doctrine)
34 God commanded Abraham, and Sarah gave Habar to Abraham to wife. And why did she do it? Because this was the law; and from Hagar sprang many people. This, therefore, was fulfilling, among other things, the promises.
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Berachiah Ben Yisrael
Active Member
Oh, and since I got your attention, maybe you will respect me enough to answer my question as to if your being sealed was only once or are there others? That question was not meant to start this mess and debate on Polygamy even though I still find it hard to believe that it was o.k. for a Morman man to marry another married woman which mean polyandry. But hey, to each his, or in this case, her own.
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