Did God Create This ???

[Berachiah Ben Yisrael]

If you say so. At the same time, though, you are a flawed human being, aren't you? A perfect understanding of anything is beyond us, which would mean that a perfect understanding of God's (or Yah's) will is beyond you as well.

Oh I agree. I am nothing but a dust bunny. But you see Yah allows his children to see that true and perfect understanding of his word.

Donated blood is screened for pathogens before it's administered to a patient. Blood does carry waste and toxins, but this is true of all blood, including the blood coursing through your veins. Transfused blood wouldn't have any more of these things unless the donor had some sort of liver or kidney condition, which would be screened for as well.[/quote}

But those things in their blood are their things and what things that are in my blood are my things. I don’t want their things.

It seems like this part of what you said isn't based on scripture or anything like it, and it's certainly not based on science. This makes me wonder if it's based on anything at all.

See, it is our belief that having anything put into your body is the same as if you ate it. It still goes into your body. It is still shared by the whole of the entire body. The DNA of another human being infused within you. This would change you from what you were created. You would now have another creation that wasn’t meant for you inside of you. Again, no thanks. It would just have to be my time to go.

In any case, though, it seems like so far, your argument is based on the idea that blood transfusions are bad on some sort of objective scale. Isn't the more appropriate question whether they're better or worse than the alternative?

That might be a question for yourself, or others, but I have clearly answered how I believe and will continue to live.

This part seems like a complete non-sequitir. Are you saying that blood bank nurses are going to have their blood spilt? It's really not clear what you're getting at.

LOL, hey whatever’s clever huh? That was soooooooooooo funny. Here let scripture help clarify for ya’s……….

Gen 9:4 But flesh with the life of it, the blood of it, you shall not eat.
Gen 9:5 I will surely require your blood of your lives. At the hand of every animal I will require it. At the hand of man, even at the hand of every man's brother, I will require the life of man.
Gen 9:6 Whoever sheds man's blood, his blood will be shed by man, for Elohim made man in his own image.

Talking about the blood of a murderer. I just said that I wouldn’t want the blood of a murderer inside me.

You're talking about menstruation, I assume. This prohibition on touching her blood wouldn't extend to things like first aid, would it? If your wife cut herself chopping vegetables in the kitchen, surely you'd be allowed to touch her blood in the process of putting on a bandage, wouldn't you?

I used the example of the blood issue of a woman to show that the blood of one is unclean for someone else to touch. The Torah states that if a man has sex with a woman with this issue then he will be put to death. Not touch. To just touch the blood would only make you unclean for seven days. The point is that it is unclean to touch so why would you want it placed inside you? I wouldn’t. It belongs to someone else.

If the nurse had on gloves as she should then it wouldn’t be an issue but if she was to touch the blood of someone else with her bare skin then she would be unclean for seven days.

Really. I don't know what your interpretation is of the Epistles, but they seem to me to explicitly say that, at the very least, dietary restrictions no longer apply.

And they explicitly say to me what the Torah states on what we eat is still intact.

Also, in the Gospels, Jesus gives examples of where the Law is made secondary to more important things: he talks about the sheep in the pit, explaining (IMO) that the Law of the Sabbath is secondary to saving the life of an animal. He talks about not attending to your sacrifice at the Temple until after you've remedied things with your brother.
If the Law of the Sabbath - written by the Hand of God Himself, according to Exodus - is secondary to saving the life of a sheep, why aren't the laws you refer to, which I would assume you consider no more important than the Law of the Sabbath, secondary to saving the life of a human being, who I would hope you consider much more valuable than a sheep?

No, the Shabbat law is different in this aspect and cannot be used because it has nothing to do with an abominable act. We are given freedoms where it pertains to Shabbat because the Shabbat was made for man and not the other way around. In any case, having need for something to lower the expectations of Shabbat is temporary where placing the blood, or body parts, of another within you would be an eternal uncleanness. Not just of the rest of your mortal life of the here and now but also it is an abomination which is of forever and ever. Once you do it you can’t reverse it. It’s in you for good.

Out of curiosity, how do you reconcile this view with 1 Timothy 4? Or do you?

With the very next verse. Where is it in the Torah or the prophets that the word of Yah ever sanctified swine?

I disagree vehemently, but I'm trying hard to be respectful. Still, I don't see how your position is consistent with the Bible or with a normal approach to compassion.

That’s cool.

 

[Father Heathen]

Yay! - FFH has continued in his quest to spam RF with underweight models in his quest to convert everyone to his religious beliefs - never mind that the images of supermodels causes quite a few eating disorders among females, lowers self-esteem, and all the pictures have been professionally done, with makeup artists and photo editing to provide the best possible picture.

Exactly! :clap

 

[Berachiah Ben Yisrael]

Thanks, but that's not necessary. What day of the week do you consider "Shabbat", though? That's what I was trying to get at.

We observe the same day that Yah commanded us to observe and keep holy. The seventh day.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

We observe the same day that Yah commanded us to observe and keep holy. The seventh day.

Okay. I was just trying to see if you referred to the days of the week by the names that referred to Norse and Roman gods after going on about the word "fortune".

See, it is our belief that having anything put into your body is the same as if you ate it. It still goes into your body. It is still shared by the whole of the entire body. The DNA of another human being infused within you. This would change you from what you were created. You would now have another creation that wasn’t meant for you inside of you. Again, no thanks. It would just have to be my time to go.

You aren't the same as when you were created anyhow; your blood cells are constantly breaking down and new ones are being created. After enough time, the blood from a transfusion would be completely eliminated from your system.

That might be a question for yourself, or others, but I have clearly answered how I believe and will continue to live.

My point was just that saying "blood transfusions are bad" doesn't really mean anything.

LOL, hey whatever’s clever huh? That was soooooooooooo funny. Here let scripture help clarify for ya’s……….

It wasn't intended as a joke. I really have difficulty following your logic.

And they explicitly say to me what the Torah states on what we eat is still intact.

They do? Where?

No, the Shabbat law is different in this aspect and cannot be used because it has nothing to do with an abominable act.

I find it very odd that you can take dietary restrictions and apply them so widely that they encompass medical procedures, but insist that when it comes to this issue, the Bible must be interpreted as narrowly as possible.

With the very next verse.

Really? The next verse after 1 Timothy 4 is chapter 5, verse 1:

Do not rebuke an older man harshly, but exhort him as if he were your father. Treat younger men as brothers,

How is that relevant?

Where is it in the Torah or the prophets that the word of Yah ever sanctified swine?

If you consider Paul to be a prophet, it's right in 1 Timothy 4, the chapter I mentioned. Verses 4 and 5, specifically:

For everything God created is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving, because it is consecrated by the word of God and prayer.

I think that pork can reasonably be considered to be part of "everything".

 

[Dezzie]

No. YouTube - Dove - Evolution Commercial (higher quality)

Props to Photoshop. What a lovely program. One of my favorites.

 

[Berachiah Ben Yisrael]

Okay. I was just trying to see if you referred to the days of the week by the names that referred to Norse and Roman gods after going on about the word "fortune".

I know.

You aren't the same as when you were created anyhow; your blood cells are constantly breaking down and new ones are being created.

Yes but it is of you and no one else. It is your blood cells breaking down and it is your bone marrow making new ones.

After enough time, the blood from a transfusion would be completely eliminated from your system.

The blood maybe, but not that which was in the blood. Remember “the life there of”. These things that were the things of someone else is now in you and dispersed through your body doing whatever they do and there is nothing you can do about it now that you allowed them to be placed within you. Again and again I proclaim that I do not want these things that belonged to another.

My point was just that saying "blood transfusions are bad" doesn't really mean anything.

Well one might say that about everything that is said but it wouldn’t be true because everything that is said is either labeled true or false which gives it meaning to all. You either accept what I say as truth or you accept it as false. Either way I’m happy.

It wasn't intended as a joke. I really have difficulty following your logic.

I know. Its o.k. though.

They do? Where?

Pretty much everywhere a christian would say that it doesn’t.

I find it very odd that you can take dietary restrictions and apply them so widely that they encompass medical procedures, but insist that when it comes to this issue, the Bible must be interpreted as narrowly as possible.

That’s because you don’t want to accept the fact that Yah gave us instructions that are meant for our good and long life and if we choose not to accept these instructions to do them then we are destroying that which he created, ourselves. He wants us to stay intact as he created us and not to mix and match from whatever and whomever we choose but to make and live our lives as he intended us to.

Really? The next verse after 1 Timothy 4 is chapter 5, verse 1:

How is that relevant?

My bad. I had a brain fart and thought you where referring to 1Tim 4:4.

If you consider Paul to be a prophet, it's right in 1 Timothy 4, the chapter I mentioned. Verses 4 and 5, specifically:

LOL, wow. I guess I’m a prophet to be able to somehow know where this all would lead us huh? LOL (ß Joke intended)

I do not consider the apostle Shaul as a prophet. I further do not see anywhere in either of these two verses where it is a prophecy from Shaul which would have needed to have been spoken to him through Elohim that sanctified the abominable animals to make them food. The only place in the entire inspired scriptures that do show what animals are sanctified by Yah are located in the book of Leviticus chapter 11 of the Torah.

I think that pork can reasonably be considered to be part of "everything".

Yes I agree. Everything abominable.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Well one might say that about everything that is said but it wouldn’t be true because everything that is said is either labeled true or false which gives it meaning to all. You either accept what I say as truth or you accept it as false. Either way I’m happy.

Let me put it another way:

I have two options, A and B. A is 8. 8 is a really, really low number. I want to have as high a number as possible, so I should choose B, because A is too small.

This doesn't work. It's not enough to say "A is small". If you're choosing between A and B, the real question is whether A is greater than B, not whether A is low or high.

Pretty much everywhere a christian would say that it doesn’t.

Hmm. Okay, I guess you don't want to answer the question.

That’s because you don’t want to accept the fact that Yah gave us instructions that are meant for our good and long life and if we choose not to accept these instructions to do them then we are destroying that which he created, ourselves. He wants us to stay intact as he created us and not to mix and match from whatever and whomever we choose but to make and live our lives as he intended us to.

Wait - hang on one minute: you just justified Yah's instructions on the basis that they give "good and long life", but the thing at issue here is where a person would have a better and longer life if they didn't follow your interpretation of those instructions. I think this is conflicted.

I do not consider the apostle Shaul as a prophet. I further do not see anywhere in either of these two verses where it is a prophecy from Shaul which would have needed to have been spoken to him through Elohim that sanctified the abominable animals to make them food. The only place in the entire inspired scriptures that do show what animals are sanctified by Yah are located in the book of Leviticus chapter 11 of the Torah.

Do you consider Jesus to be a prophet? Matthew 15:11:

What goes into a man's mouth does not make him 'unclean,' but what comes out of his mouth, that is what makes him 'unclean.' "

Yes I agree. Everything abominable.

"Everything abominable" is a subset of "everything".

 

[stacey bo bacey]

Are we not all the Father and the Son's children, made by their own hand ???

Does Christ and the Father NOT want to protect us ???

If we completely rebel against God and are "ripe in iniquity" our destruction is assured, but if we repent and live under God's commandments, we then live under HIS divine merciful protection.

Um. What are you talking about? You never address anything head on, so whatever.

 

[stacey bo bacey]

As far as blood transfusions go, we are told that the blood is the life there of. This is true not just for the animal kingdom, which are the ones that we are allowed to partake in as food but also the blood of man is his life as well. Blood carries all kinds of waste and toxins, pathogens and has the DNA makeup of that person. There is even some thought that those things within the blood could play a role in the makeup of the persons train of thought, psyche and how they are. It might even be said that one might choose not to take the blood, or any other part, of another human being because they are not sure from whom the blood came and would be afraid that it might have came from a crazy person with all kinds of disorders as well as even maybe being a mass murderer. Even more is that one doesn’t know what type of person it is as far as their beliefs. They could be a total reprobate. I, for one, would not want to know that I might have this type of persons blood running through my veins. What if you started taking on some of the physiological traits of said person? Not me. Not only that but we are told in scripture that if a man spills the blood of another then by his blood will it be required. Again I wouldn’t want that mans blood in me either. We even see where the woman that has an issue with her blood that she be separated. This shows that blood of another is unclean for even her own husband to touch. It even states that it is Torah that any man that defiles himself with a woman that has this issue with her blood that this same man shall be put to death. No, I am not going to go along with having anyone’s blood, and or body parts, put into my body, or anyone that I have control over‘s body.

Ok, question! And just humor me, ok? I know you would rather die--literally--than have a blood transfusion. But let's just think about this scenario....

You get into a horrible accident--you pick...car, boat, pedestrian--and are rushed to the hospital. In the ambulance they see it's clear you're losing a lot of blood and will need a transfusion ASAP in order to live. Once you get to the hospital, they rush you through the ER and start the transfusion. At the same time, they're trying to ID you and call your next of kin...your wife. Obviously she would tell them to not go through with the transfusion but, saving lives being their job and all, the doctors would do whatever it took to save you even if your wife hadn't been contacted yet. It's their job AND the law. So. You now have had a transfusion. What do you do after you've made a full recovery and go about your life again?

Really, I'm expecting you to say you'd kill yourself...but that's a sin. So, what do you do?

 

[Berachiah Ben Yisrael]

Let me put it another way:

I have two options, A and B. A is 8. 8 is a really, really low number. I want to have as high a number as possible, so I should choose B, because A is too small.

This doesn't work. It's not enough to say "A is small". If you're choosing between A and B, the real question is whether A is greater than B, not whether A is low or high.

But what if I don't like either option? what if I decide not to make a choice? What if I don't care whether it is high or low? What difference would it make?

Hmm. Okay, I guess you don't want to answer the question.

I did answer. You just didn't like the answer I gave. Thats o.k. though cause just a few lines down you will see another answer to this question. Again I doubt you will accept it. But then again, as some christians say, you might see the light. LOL

Wait - hang on one minute: you just justified Yah's instructions on the basis that they give "good and long life", but the thing at issue here is where a person would have a better and longer life if they didn't follow your interpretation of those instructions. I think this is conflicted.

You would. I said that he gave us the way of life to live the way he intended. Not the way we intended. Its his will and not ours that matters here. If we disobey and choose to do it the way we want it then we might as well be dead. We really are already dead in his eyes. Why continue with one that sees it all his way and not by that which the Creator desires. Why not just wipe that one out of exsistence and make him as if he never was. I want to live forever. I want that prize. If all I have to do is to serve and obey his wishes while here on this dirt clod in this nasty fleshy body then I will do every little jot and every little tittle of his instructions as he allows me to understand.

Do you consider Jesus to be a prophet? Matthew 15:11:

No.

I believe in Yahshua Ha Mashiach.

As far as the verse of Matt. 15:11............

Mat 15:11 That which enters into the mouth doesn't defile the man; but that which proceeds out of the mouth, this defiles the man."

We take it in the context in which it was written. We go back to see what exactly is being spoken of which the clue will be found in verse 2..........

Mat 15:2 "Why do your disciples disobey the tradition of the elders? For they don't wash their hands when they eat bread."

Here we see that the Pharisees and scribes was complaining about those that ate with unwashed hands. They thought eating with unwashed hands would defile you. And you still don't get it? Well then you are in good company...........

Mat 15:15 Peter answered him, "Explain the parable to us."
Mat 15:16 So Yahshua said, "Do you also still not understand?

Even Kepha didn't get it at first and probably was thinking and making the same mistake in assuming as you and many others, including many christikans, are. Here this will help...................

Mat 15:18 But the things which proceed out of the mouth come out of the heart, and they defile the man.
Mat 15:19 For out of the heart come forth evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, sexual sins, thefts, false testimony, and blasphemies.
Mat 15:20 These are the things which defile the man; but to eat with unwashed hands doesn't defile the man."

"Everything abominable" is a subset of "everything".

Yes, it is, but it is set aside by the word of Yah as being that subset of things abominable.

 

[Berachiah Ben Yisrael]

Ok, question! And just humor me, ok? I know you would rather die--literally--than have a blood transfusion. But let's just think about this scenario....

You get into a horrible accident--you pick...car, boat, pedestrian--and are rushed to the hospital. In the ambulance they see it's clear you're losing a lot of blood and will need a transfusion ASAP in order to live. Once you get to the hospital, they rush you through the ER and start the transfusion. At the same time, they're trying to ID you and call your next of kin...your wife. Obviously she would tell them to not go through with the transfusion but, saving lives being their job and all, the doctors would do whatever it took to save you even if your wife hadn't been contacted yet. It's their job AND the law. So. You now have had a transfusion. What do you do after you've made a full recovery and go about your life again?

Really, I'm expecting you to say you'd kill yourself...but that's a sin. So, what do you do?

Well being that my legal agents know my wishes and if are contacted would state those wishes and if it were proven that whoever didn't adhere to those wishes, as is also documented in a living will, I would sue the ever living daylikes out of them for as much as is legally allowed.

As far as it happening and what I would do later would be to live my life. I didn't commit the sin. That lies on someone else. I wouldn't have been able to make that decision because they took that right away from me and made it for me. I am then completely innocent of any wrong doing in the eyes of Yah.

 

[Berachiah Ben Yisrael]

I'll be back on later today. Have a Goodnight all.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

But what if I don't like either option? what if I decide not to make a choice? What if I don't care whether it is high or low? What difference would it make?

I was giving an analogy for a binary choice: transfusion or no transfusion. There are no other choices. And in this case, as the classic rock band Rush put it, "if you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice."

Bringing us back to where we started: going on about how awful blood transfusions are means absolutely nothing unless it's done to show that they're worse than the alternative... i.e. no transfusion.

I did answer. You just didn't like the answer I gave.

That's right, because it was evasive.

Thats o.k. though cause just a few lines down you will see another answer to this question. Again I doubt you will accept it. But then again, as some christians say, you might see the light. LOL

No, I won't. I suppose I could just go "Great! More blood for the rest of us!"... but my conscience gets in the way of that.

You would. I said that he gave us the way of life to live the way he intended. Not the way we intended. Its his will and not ours that matters here. If we disobey and choose to do it the way we want it then we might as well be dead. We really are already dead in his eyes. Why continue with one that sees it all his way and not by that which the Creator desires. Why not just wipe that one out of exsistence and make him as if he never was. I want to live forever. I want that prize. If all I have to do is to serve and obey his wishes while here on this dirt clod in this nasty fleshy body then I will do every little jot and every little tittle of his instructions as he allows me to understand.

That's the thing, though: you can't understand follow every little jot and tittle of God's instructions perfectly. You're human; you can't do anything perfectly... none of us can. You're betting that your understanding and interpretation of God's will is correct, but unless you're God yourself, you can't be sure that it is. On the one hand, you have an interpretation that, IMO, goes well, well beyond the context which the writer of the original text could have had in mind. On the other, you have a belief in a God who by granting you life has given you a great gift that presumably shouldn't be squandered.

And on the gripping hand (at least for me), you have the possibility that you're mistaken about the whole thing, there is no afterlife to go to no matter what you do, and you're ready to throw your life away for nothing.

No.

I believe in Yahshua Ha Mashiach.

That doesn't really mean a whole lot to me. It seems that you have rather unique beliefs. It might help if you don't assume that people necessarily know what you mean.

As far as the verse of Matt. 15:11............

Mat 15:11 That which enters into the mouth doesn't defile the man; but that which proceeds out of the mouth, this defiles the man."

We take it in the context in which it was written. We go back to see what exactly is being spoken of which the clue will be found in verse 2..........

Mat 15:2 "Why do your disciples disobey the tradition of the elders? For they don't wash their hands when they eat bread."

Here we see that the Pharisees and scribes was complaining about those that ate with unwashed hands. They thought eating with unwashed hands would defile you. And you still don't get it? Well then you are in good company...........

I get it fine: a general principle is stated (things you eat don't make you unclean), and then applied to a specific instance (therefore, eating with unwashed hands doesn't make you unclean). This doesn't mean that the general principle is only true in the specific instance.

 

[stacey bo bacey]

Well being that my legal agents know my wishes and if are contacted would state those wishes and if it were proven that whoever didn't adhere to those wishes, as is also documented in a living will, I would sue the ever living daylikes out of them for as much as is legally allowed.

So MONEY would make the situation better? That's a really weird line of thinking. How would money help? Seems like you'd just sue for revenge.

As far as it happening and what I would do later would be to live my life. I didn't commit the sin. That lies on someone else. I wouldn't have been able to make that decision because they took that right away from me and made it for me. I am then completely innocent of any wrong doing in the eyes of Yah.

Yea, yea, you didn't commit the sin...no duh. But how would you FEEL? Would you feel like an abomination? Because, your decision or not, that "essence" is in your body forever (as you said). You committed no wrongdoing but that doesn't change the fact someone else's "stuff" is coursing through your veins.

 

[darkendless]

So MONEY would make the situation better? That's a really weird line of thinking. How would money help? Seems like you'd just sue for revenge.

No, because he can.

Yea, yea, you didn't commit the sin...no duh. But how would you FEEL? Would you feel like an abomination? Because, your decision or not, that "essence" is in your body forever (as you said). You committed no wrongdoing but that doesn't change the fact someone else's "stuff" is coursing through your veins.

Isn't trying to save a life honourable. If i was a paramedic and got sued for saving a man's life and he had a whinge because he was religion i'd scalpel his throat and say "now lets see your God save you now."

 

[stacey bo bacey]

Isn't trying to save a life honourable. If i was a paramedic and got sued for saving a man's life and he had a whinge because he was religion i'd scalpel his throat and say "now lets see your God save you now."

That's another thing I was wondering.

Ben....would you not be the least bit grateful for being alive after the fact? So, in your opinion, the doctor messed up BIG time...but how do you know that wasn't god's will for all of that to fall into place like it did? You'd be alive for a reason. Suing the doctor would seem to be slapping god in the face.

 

[darkendless]

That's another thing I was wondering.

Ben....would you not be the least bit grateful for being alive after the fact? So, in your opinion, the doctor messed up BIG time...but how do you know that wasn't god's will for all of that to fall into place like it did? You'd be alive for a reason. Suing the doctor would seem to be slapping god in the face.

Screw God's will its common to save a life when an oppurtunity to do so presents itself.

So not only would these people not be grateful for life, they'd sue the person that kept their heart beating. Thats more than rediculous.

 

[stacey bo bacey]

Screw God's will its common to save a life when an oppurtunity to do so presents itself.

Hey, I know that. I'm just trying to speak on his terms.

So not only would these people not be grateful for life, they'd sue the person that kept their heart beating. Thats more than rediculous.

For realsies.

 

[Berachiah Ben Yisrael]

I was giving an analogy for a binary choice: transfusion or no transfusion. There are no other choices. And in this case, as the classic rock band Rush put it, "if you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice."
Bringing us back to where we started: going on about how awful blood transfusions are means absolutely nothing unless it's done to show that they're worse than the alternative... i.e. no transfusion.

I am not saying that I didn’t make a choice. I am saying that I didn’t have to choose between the two options you allowed. I decided to choose neither. Therefore there are more than the two choices. There are three and I chose 3.

You can believe that there is nothing wrong with blood transfusions but I choose to believe that they are by understanding what my El has allowed me to understand through his true word. You may disagree with my reasoning on this subject but it is of no real, at least not any that would matter, consequence to me.

That's right, because it was evasive.

So you say. I thought it very adequate.

No, I won't. I suppose I could just go "Great! More blood for the rest of us!"... but my conscience gets in the way of that.

That is fine. I don’t live by your conscience. You go ahead and get all bent out of shape about what I do when it doesn’t effect you and yours, and I and mine will continue to live in peace with the knowledge that we are living to the best of our ability in pleasing Yah.

That's the thing, though: you can't understand follow every little jot and tittle of God's instructions perfectly. You're human; you can't do anything perfectly... none of us can. You're betting that your understanding and interpretation of God's will is correct, but unless you're God yourself, you can't be sure that it is. On the one hand, you have an interpretation that, IMO, goes well, well beyond the context which the writer of the original text could have had in mind. On the other, you have a belief in a God who by granting you life has given you a great gift that presumably shouldn't be squandered.

And that is all just your opinion and what you yourself think and feel. You have no more proof about what you have said than you will accept from me. I do believe that we can strive to be as perfect as we are allowed to be by Yah. It is possible to be perfect enough…………

Luk 1:6 They were both righteous before Elohim, walking blamelessly in all the commandments and ordinances of YAH.

This shows me that there are those who can be good enough in their walk to be considered blameless in the eyes of Yah. What I do is not to be viewed as blameless before you or any other man but to Yah. I truly believe that I am doing the very best that I can through my beliefs as to his true word. You may disagree but then again why should I care about what you accept or not? You are not the one that I will have to answer to. Yah is. I am very much at peace with this. You don’t have to be.

And on the gripping hand (at least for me), you have the possibility that you're mistaken about the whole thing, there is no afterlife to go to no matter what you do, and you're ready to throw your life away for nothing.

Well then there’s the difference. I don’t grapple with what I have accepted to be true. I am at peace knowing for myself that I am doing the best at pleasing my Father and Creator by obeying his true and living word. To me that is all that matters. Your thoughts and feelings on this subject, at least to me, don’t.

That doesn't really mean a whole lot to me.

O.k. I am o.k. with that. Whatever gave you the impression that what means something to you was something that would be of interest to me?

It seems that you have rather unique beliefs.

I know, right? Its such a blessing to know that I don’t follow after the crowd in their misconceptions and lies.

It might help if you don't assume that people necessarily know what you mean.

It might help if you don’t assume that I necessarily care about what others think.

I get it fine: a general principle is stated (things you eat don't make you unclean), and then applied to a specific instance (therefore, eating with unwashed hands doesn't make you unclean). This doesn't mean that the general principle is only true in the specific instance.

You understand it as a general statement that Yahshua made but I disagree. What else is new? He was speaking to those that knows the law and obeys the law. Yes the laws pertaining to food which had been in effect at least back to Sinai. The same dietary laws that even Yahshua followed at the time he spoke these words and so did all those that he was speaking to. He was only speaking of those things that could be consumed that was other than those things that they all knew are unlawful to eat as stated in Lev. 11. For him to have explained that eating swine was o.k. would be the same as saying that the law given to Moshe was nothing at a time that he was still alive. Remember that for a testament to be effective the death of a testator must have already occurred so even if what you say as far as the dietary laws being done away with, which they where not, it wouldn’t have occurred until after he died. That would mean if he had stated it with the meaning you would have everyone to believe then he would have spoke a lie in so much that the dietary law at that point and time was still in effect. So no, you don’t understand as far as I am concerned but then again, I am not concerned.

 

[Berachiah Ben Yisrael]

So MONEY would make the situation better? That's a really weird line of thinking. How would money help? Seems like you'd just sue for revenge.

Suing for damages is the way things are done today in this society. Back in the day one that might have done such a thing might be stoned to death. Money would not reverse the abominable act but it is more of a punishment for damages rendered. Going against my legal wishes can be acted upon for damages.

Yea, yea, you didn't commit the sin...no duh. But how would you FEEL? Would you feel like an abomination? Because, your decision or not, that "essence" is in your body forever (as you said). You committed no wrongdoing but that doesn't change the fact someone else's "stuff" is coursing through your veins.

No, I don't think I would feel like an abomination only because one that has had this occur, and didn't commit the act, is free from any wrongdoing and therefore still considered righteous. The act is the only thing that is looked at here. Now there are certain laws pertaining to those that are unclean not entering the Temple but at this point and time this is not an issue.

You know seeing these things the way most do is like saying its o.k. to smoke because there is no law that says you can't and there are those that say it really doesn't hurt you and although there isn't a a law in Torah against it there is something that states that we should not do things to ourselves that is bad or harmful. You later find that you have contracted lung cancer because of your smoking and want to blame everyone and the neighbors cat for what has befallen you showing the world that you refuse to take the responsibility of your own actions and decisions.