Katzpur
Not your average Mormon
I find the Trinity very confusing, too. That's part of the reason I was never a strong Catholic either, or a strong Protestant or a traditional Christian of any kind.
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did Jesus ever say he was god?
- Thread starter Gharib
- Start date
.lava
Veteran Member
I find the Trinity very confusing, too. That's part of the reason I was never a strong Catholic either, or a strong Protestant or a traditional Christian of any kind.
does that mean you searched for oneness of God?
.
ayani
member
regarding Jesus' being God :
Jesus never does come out and say "i am God", that's very true.
yet He does identify Himself personally with the One True God in John 14:6-9. and He says something in this passage that no previous prophet or messenger even came close to announcing.
~~~
Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.
“If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; and from now on you know Him and have seen Him.”
Philip said to Him, “Lord, show us the Father, and it is sufficient for us.”
Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long, and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?
~~~
Jesus says plainly that if we have seen and known Him, we have seen and known God, the Father. that somehow God, the Father, has come down to humanity's level in and through His Son, personally knowable and visible in human form.
Jesus does also say that between He and the Father there is a hierarchy. yet as Messiah, He also fulfills Messianic prophecies which describe Messiah as being the LORD, come down to visit His people, whom the LORD will send (Zechariah 2:10-11). God sending God.
Biblically it is not wrong to say that Jesus is the Son of God, and the image and person of the Father come down in and through and within Himself- incarnate. certainly Jesus also refers to His Father, even while equating Himself in some places with His Father.
Jesus also cites His pre-existence with and in God before the world began (John 17:5), and hence before the first man, Adam, was formed.
i have no Biblical problem accepting that Jesus is God. God the Son, God the Father come down to us through and as the Son, the same as and yet distinct from His Father. God incarnate, and the LORD whom the LORD sent to live with us, and join many nations to Himself.
Jesus never does come out and say "i am God", that's very true.
yet He does identify Himself personally with the One True God in John 14:6-9. and He says something in this passage that no previous prophet or messenger even came close to announcing.
~~~
Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.
“If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; and from now on you know Him and have seen Him.”
Philip said to Him, “Lord, show us the Father, and it is sufficient for us.”
Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long, and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?
~~~
Jesus says plainly that if we have seen and known Him, we have seen and known God, the Father. that somehow God, the Father, has come down to humanity's level in and through His Son, personally knowable and visible in human form.
Jesus does also say that between He and the Father there is a hierarchy. yet as Messiah, He also fulfills Messianic prophecies which describe Messiah as being the LORD, come down to visit His people, whom the LORD will send (Zechariah 2:10-11). God sending God.
Biblically it is not wrong to say that Jesus is the Son of God, and the image and person of the Father come down in and through and within Himself- incarnate. certainly Jesus also refers to His Father, even while equating Himself in some places with His Father.
Jesus also cites His pre-existence with and in God before the world began (John 17:5), and hence before the first man, Adam, was formed.
i have no Biblical problem accepting that Jesus is God. God the Son, God the Father come down to us through and as the Son, the same as and yet distinct from His Father. God incarnate, and the LORD whom the LORD sent to live with us, and join many nations to Himself.
Vile Atheist
Loud and Obnoxious
So you believe it simply because he announces something extraordinary? On what grounds? Why do you believe Jesus when he says "No one comes through the Father except through me" and not me when I (hypothetically) say "No one comes through the Father except through me"? What criteria do you use to differentiate such belief?
Actually it is three, you are forgetting the Holy Spirit
But traditional Christians believe in a Trinity, three persons on divine being... One God... Was Jacob incorrect when he thought he wrestled with God at Peniel? A little tangent, but something I've always wondered about...
Because there is only one divinity...
There are other inferences... Jesus accepts worship as God in John 20:28, He claims to exist before Abraham was John 8:58, he forgives sins and gives others the authority to do so... Biblically, His actions claim for Himself divinity, as well as His speech...
ayani
member
if we're going based by textual evidence within the Gospel narratives, this should be taken into account.
this assumes a lot. this assumes that the Gospel narratives can tell us what is true and useful and meaningful about the life and person of Jesus Christ.
as to why i personally believe these things about Jesus, i believe them because when i asked God, sincerely, if these things were true about Jesus (is He Your Son, and is He unique), the answer was a resounding and life-changing yes.
now, for people who doubt the existence of God or the reliability of personal religious experiences, this means little, if anything. but if you'd like me to describe and explain more, i can.
this assumes a lot. this assumes that the Gospel narratives can tell us what is true and useful and meaningful about the life and person of Jesus Christ.
as to why i personally believe these things about Jesus, i believe them because when i asked God, sincerely, if these things were true about Jesus (is He Your Son, and is He unique), the answer was a resounding and life-changing yes.
now, for people who doubt the existence of God or the reliability of personal religious experiences, this means little, if anything. but if you'd like me to describe and explain more, i can.
Vile Atheist
Loud and Obnoxious
While I appreciate the offer and attempt, "faith" has never been a satisfactory answer for me. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.
He said it first
ayani
member
that's ok then. thank you, friend, for being civil, and kind, as well as curious.
Vile Atheist
Loud and Obnoxious
He said it first
Fair enough lol.
Freelancer7
Active Member
arimoff
Active Member
Deuteronomy 34:10 And there was no other prophet who arose in Israel like Moses, whom the Lord knew face to face?
It is such a Chutzpah to disregard that verse and say speak to father but only trough me.
And pleeeeeeeeeeease don't mention the Messianic prophesies that he fulfilled, because me and all of you still live in this crazy world full of wars, and jews are not gathered in Israel to the last person, so messiah never came!!!!!!!
Messiah is the Lord according to whom? if Jesus was Jewish then he certainly knew that Jewish idea of messiah does not support him being G-D. messiah is a only a great leader who will bring this world to peace, a man of flash and blood. no where in the Torah you will find that any great character where have G-D they were all humans just like you and me.
arimoff
Active Member
lol if that's what your thinking we can continue debating, why not? where did we stop? 1 and 2?
Muffled
Jesus in me
A Muslim should have some concept about the onesness of God and the Father is the reference Jesus uses for God.
Freelancer7
Active Member
Isn't where LORD is in all capitals (Psalm 110:1) is where the Tetragrammaton appeared? Whereas, Lord not in all capitals is where the four letters for God's name (YHWH) does not appear?
LittleNipper
Well-Known Member
The SON of GOD is GOD. and Jesus told Peter that the HOLY SPIRIT revealed to Peter that JESUS was the CHRIST (translated: GOD with us).
LittleNipper
Well-Known Member
The great characters were not perfect. Imperfection cannot save itself much less a people and an entire world.
Breathe
Hostis humani generis
That doesn't even make sense. o_o
Christ = Greek translation of Hebrew messiah. Which means anointed (with a sort of "chosen" connotation) and does not have any divine connotations to it at all. Kings were also anointed.
I think you're thinking of Immanuel, but Jesus never identified himself as Immanuel as far as I am aware.
LittleNipper
Well-Known Member
That doesn't even make sense. o_o
Christ = Greek translation of Hebrew messiah. Which means anointed (with a sort of "chosen" connotation) and does not have any divine connotations to it at all. Kings were also anointed.
I think you're thinking of Immanuel, but Jesus never identified himself as Immanuel as far as I am aware.
Are you less human than your earthly father? JESUS cannot be less GOD than who HE emanates from. And HE clearly called HIMSELF the I AM. Before Abraham was, I AM. (John 8:58)