did Jesus ever say he was god?

[Freelancer7]

Are you saying you really don't know what a Father-Son relationship is? I would explain, but I wouldn't want to offend you.

This is an impossibility as far as I'm concerned, but if you can explain how it's possible, please be my guest.

I would like you to expalin Katzpur on the father-son issue as, I hear different ideas to the concept of fatherhood.

The Son older than the Father (spiritually not Biologically) In other words, if we use reinarnation as the prime example, a new soul who grows and gets married has a baby boy, that baby boy is actaully the Great, great uncle of his. So who is the father out of the two?? Perhaps I cant explain it, so perhaps we will just leave it, hows that?

 

[sojourner]

And when did His Father cease to be His God? Could you direct me to somewhere in the scriptures that would help me understand this?

The moment he gave up his humanity.

 

[sojourner]

Maybe. Maybe not. But one thing is for certain: I'm the next best thing

And Angellous is still your Daddy!

 

[Vile Atheist]

And Angellous is still your Daddy!

Lmao.

 

[Blogger]

When verses of the Bible that apparently show Jesus attributed deity not to himself but to the one who sent him, the Christian response is usually verses that apparently say he is God.

Why dont Christians address the verses that say he is not God if everything is the word of God? That will be more helpful because it will demonstrate all verses can be explained and are in harmony and not contradictory.

 

[Katzpur]

The moment he gave up his humanity.

Is this just your assumption or can it be biblically supported?

Without bothering to do any research at all, I can think of at least three things that would strongly suggest that Jesus Christ continues to be subordinate to His Father today. I can provide specific verses if you'd like, but I'm sure you are aware of all three teachings.

1. Jesus Christ sits on the right hand of His Father. This is symbolic of the fact that He is His Father's "right hand Man," so to speak.

2. Only the Father knows the exact time of the Son's return to Earth. The Son's lack of knowledge as to when this will be implies that the Father is still "calling the shots."

3. Jesus is said to be our mediator with the Father. He will plead our case with the Father. This would not be necessary if the Father were not the ultimate source of divine justice.

Once again, though, in case you or anybody else who may be reading this may have missed this one point that I made earlier -- the Son's subordination to the Father is with respect to their relationship and not to their divine nature. The Son is every bit as divine as the Father. He is as holy, as pure, and as perfect in every way as His Father and has always been so.

 

[Katzpur]

I have a few questions to the both of you and they are . In your understanding, what was his name before he was born?

I believe that prior to Jesus' birth, He was known as Jehovah. In other words, I believe that He is the individual referred to in the Old Testament as Jehovah.

What exactly are we talking about here? A body or what?

I'm afraid I'm not quite sure what you're asking. I believe that Jesus Christ existed as a spirit prior to His incarnation, but that He had all of the divine attributes then that He ever had, and that He still has all of those attributes today. I believe that when He was born in Bethlehem, He retained those divine attributes but also took upon himself the attributes of mortal man. In other words, He inherited the power and glory of His Father, including the power to restore His physical body to life three days after His death by crucifixion. He could not, however, have even been put to death were it not for the fact that, from His mortal mother, He inherited a body subject to disease, injury and death, as well as a nature that was subject to temptation (which temptation, incidentally, He never yielded to).

What exactly, in your undrstanding, happened at his purification with what came down as a dove? What was the name of that which came down?

Just prior to the moment when the voice of God the Father was heard from the heavens, saying, "This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased," and when the Holy Ghost descended in the form of a dove, Jesus had emerged from the waters of baptism, having received an ordinance which would normally have been required of someone who needed to be cleansed from his sins. Jesus, being free from sin, insisted upon receiving this ordinance "to fulfill all righteousness." He did so as a witness to His Father that He was sufficiently humble to obey God's commandment, regardless of the fact that He had no sins from which to be absolved. The Holy Ghost's appearance in the form of a dove is, to me, a clear revelation of the fact that the three members of the Godhead are physically separate from each other, while being spiritually "one."

 

[Katzpur]

I would like you to expalin Katzpur on the father-son issue as, I hear different ideas to the concept of fatherhood.

The Son older than the Father (spiritually not Biologically) In other words, if we use reinarnation as the prime example, a new soul who grows and gets married has a baby boy, that baby boy is actaully the Great, great uncle of his. So who is the father out of the two?? Perhaps I cant explain it, so perhaps we will just leave it, hows that?

I suppose you'd have a point if reincarnation were a true doctrine. In my opinion, though, and in the opinion of virtually all Christians, reincarnation is not a reality.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Satan/Lucifer was an angel. Jesus Christ was never an angel. He was always God. Why are you ignoring the fact that I keep saying this, over and over and over again?

Please notice 1st Thessalonians (4:16). The Lord mentioned in that verse is Jesus.
Then please notice the Lord or Jesus has a voice. It is the archangel's voice.
Who would have the voice of the archangel except the archangel?

Who did God give power over the resurrection? No one else but Jesus, and Jesus loud voice is the voice that raised Lazarus (John 11:11,43). Since the archangel's voice, or shout, raises the dead and Jesus is the one designated to raise the dead, then who else would be the Lord with the archangel's voice but Jesus?

Jude verse 9, 14.

 

[Katzpur]

Please notice 1st Thessalonians (4:16). The Lord mentioned in that verse is Jesus.
Then please notice the Lord or Jesus has a voice. It is the archangel's voice.
Who would have the voice of the archangel except the archangel?

Who did God give power over the resurrection? No one else but Jesus, and Jesus loud voice is the voice that raised Lazarus (John 11:11,43). Since the archangel's voice, or shout, raises the dead and Jesus is the one designated to raise the dead, then who else would be the Lord with the archangel's voice but Jesus?

Jude verse 9, 14.

I'm sorry, URAVIP2ME, but I don't see any mention of the archangel in those verses.

 

[gwk230]

I believe that prior to Jesus' birth, He was known as Jehovah. In other words, I believe that He is the individual referred to in the Old Testament as Jehovah.

I'm afraid I'm not quite sure what you're asking. I believe that Jesus Christ existed as a spirit prior to His incarnation, but that He had all of the divine attributes then that He ever had, and that He still has all of those attributes today. I believe that when He was born in Bethlehem, He retained those divine attributes but also took upon himself the attributes of mortal man. In other words, He inherited the power and glory of His Father, including the power to restore His physical body to life three days after His death by crucifixion. He could not, however, have even been put to death were it not for the fact that, from His mortal mother, He inherited a body subject to disease, injury and death, as well as a nature that was subject to temptation (which temptation, incidentally, He never yielded to).

Just prior to the moment when the voice of God the Father was heard from the heavens, saying, "This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased," and when the Holy Ghost descended in the form of a dove, Jesus had emerged from the waters of baptism, having received an ordinance which would normally have been required of someone who needed to be cleansed from his sins. Jesus, being free from sin, insisted upon receiving this ordinance "to fulfill all righteousness." He did so as a witness to His Father that He was sufficiently humble to obey God's commandment, regardless of the fact that He had no sins from which to be absolved. The Holy Ghost's appearance in the form of a dove is, to me, a clear revelation of the fact that the three members of the Godhead are physically separate from each other, while being spiritually "one."

Thanks for your answer Katzpur. Though I unequivocally and most vehemently disagree with your understanding I do however respect that they are your understandings. Again thanks for your reply.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Why would the creator have less glory than the father?



Ok so god spoke by way of the prophets before, and in the last days he changed tactics and spoke by way of his son. So the son is the way the father reveals his glory, and the son (in heaven) is has excactly the same glory as the glory of the father. Which made him the only suitable being to reveal the glory of the father. You cant reveal the glory of a higher being unless you can reflect the same glory.

If jesus is heir of all things, that puts him pretty much above the father if we want to talk hierchy here. Jesus cant be heir and the father rule over it. So that doesnt really make jesus subordinate, if anything it hints in the opposite direction.

Katzpur, the son was the one who would create things. How can he create unless he is god?

If I may take the liberty to add that 'through' Jesus all things came into existence.

An heir is someone that inherits of course, and according to Psalm (2:8) Jesus would be heir or inherit the nations and the uttermost parts of the earth for his possession. Heir of all things on earth.

As heir according to John (16:15) all that his Father has is Jesus also.
A parent has the right to give any or all possessions to a chosen heir.

Romans (8:17) shows that Jesus is not the only heir but has joint-heirs with him.
Rev (5:9,10) shows these joint heirs serve with Jesus as co-kings and co-priests with him during Jesus kingdom rule over earth.

1st Corinthians (15:26-28) after death is destroyed, and 'God has put' all things under Jesus feet, what does Jesus do? Verse 28 says in part that Jesus subjects himself to the Father. Why? In order that God may be all things to everyone.

Jesus prayed at John (17:5,9,24) that Jesus had glory 'with' God, and glory was given, granted, or gifted to Jesus by God.

 

[Katzpur]

Thanks for your answer Katzpur. Though I unequivocally and most vehemently disagree with your understanding I do however respect that they are your understandings. Again thanks for your reply.

And that's all? You're not even going to tell me what your understanding is? Please. :flirt:

 

[URAVIP2ME]

I'm sorry, URAVIP2ME, but I don't see any mention of the archangel in those verses.

Would you please post 1st Thessalonians 4:16 for me. Thank you

 

[Katzpur]

Would you please post 1st Thessalonians 4:16 for me. Thank you

My apologies. I obviously typed in something wrong in my initial search. Maybe I was looking at 2nd Thessalonians.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

No apologies needed. I do that too.

At Psalm 110:1 there are two (2) LORD/Lord(s) mentioned.
One LORD is in all capitals
One Lord is not in all capitals.
Who are the two LORD/ Lord's mentioned?

Whenever one sees LORD in the JKV in all capitals that is showing where originally the Tetragrammaton appeared which is the four letters for God's name. (YHWH)

Whereas Lord not in all capitals does not refer to God.

 

[Katzpur]

No apologies needed. I do that too.

At Psalm 110:1 there are two (2) LORD/Lord(s) mentioned.
One LORD is in all capitals
One Lord is not in all capitals.
Who are the two LORD/ Lord's mentioned?

Whenever one sees LORD in the JKV in all capitals that is showing where originally the Tetragrammaton appeared which is the four letters for God's name. (YHWH)

Whereas Lord not in all capitals does not refer to God.

From your posts, I'm guessing you are a Jehovah's Witness. I'm familiar with a number of their teachings. Unlike you, I believe that Jesus Christ was the God of the Old Testament. I believe that He was known pre-mortally as Jehovah. I think that this difference of opinion alone is going to make it rather difficult for us to agree on who is being referred to as LORD.

 

[Kurt31416]

It is truly amazing how even in the Christian Bible, Jesus never explicitly says he's God. Even when tortured by the Romans.

 

[gwk230]

And that's all? You're not even going to tell me what your understanding is? Please. :flirt:

Well, since you put it that way……….
　
My understanding is as thus………
　

what was his name before he was born?

　
Yahshua did not have a name known by man prior to the Malach so telling Miriam when he told her that she would conceive. YahHowah as spelled with the “yod hey wav hey” is just an explanation of the name “Yah“. Yah is translated “Life” and “YahHowah” is the explanation translated as “The one who gives life”. This is not anyone other than Yah himself. There is no one who rules with him or beside him. He created all things, by his utterance, and there is no thing that is created that he didn‘t create. He is above all things and all things are beneath him. “Yah achad” or rather “Yah is one“.
　

What exactly are we talking about here? A body or what?

　
Well being that Yahshua, in my understanding, did not exist prior to his conception, within his mother Miriam’s womb, there was nothing. No body and no so called spirit. All we had prior was the prophecy.
　

What exactly happened at his purification with what came down as a dove?

　
Not to say that Yahshua ever sinned though it is said that all men have thus sinned. It is also said that we are all born in sin. That being said, when Yahshua was purified he was made clean from the world and was thus able to receive that which came down to possess him. That was a malach. A holy, or rather set-apart, malach. After the trip into the wilderness to be tempted by Helel It is now that his ministry begins and the first of the recorded miracles are performed. It is not Yahshua that does these things but that which resided in him. Yahshua really spoke himself very little. Most of what was said was done so by that which resided in him. The set-apart malach of Yah. Being this malach is of Yah it is a part of Elohim therefore once it possessed Yahshua and dwelt within him and did so dwell among men we have the fulfillment of the prophecy that made mention of “Immanuel” or rather “Elohim is with us”.
　

What was the name of that which came down?

　
The name is of no consequence. We are to worship Yah and not those he sends to do his will. It was, however, a set-apart malach. All of the malachem are sanctioned to do and say exactly as they are so commanded by Yah. He does nothing of his own but that of Yah for the name of Yah is in them. Example…….
　
Exo 23:20 "Behold, I send a malach before you, to keep you by the way, and to bring you into the place which I have prepared.
Exo 23:21 Pay attention to him, and listen to his voice. Don't provoke him, for he will not pardon your disobedience, for my name is in him.
Exo 23:22 But if you indeed listen to his voice of the things I do speak, and do all that I speak, then I will be an enemy to your enemies, and an adversary to your adversaries.
　
The malach only does and says what Yah allows them. Hence that which was said, “if you have seen me, you have also seen the father“, by the deeds and the sayings.
　
I hope this will be sufficient.

:clap“Hallelu-Yah” “Praise you Yah”:clap"All praise and glory to Yah my Elohim":clap

 

[Katzpur]

Well, since you put it that way……….

Well, as you said, we disagree on a lot but agree on a little. Thank you for sharing! It was really interesting to see what you believe.