did Jesus ever say he was god?

[Gharib]

Indeed... they are equal...

As far as Jesus saying He is God... he says "I and the Father are one"...

can i see that verse, if it's no trouble.

 

[Gharib]

i say they are not equal. my reason is that if he was then why would he pray unto the father to send the comforter to us. clearly stating that he and the father is not equal.

this is but one example that the gospels are full of

can you post that verse, please?

 

[Scott1]

i'm feeling the need as to be sure whether this stuff is just made up with no real proof, or there is a verse or verses that state this?

Ummm... I'm not sure how much you know about the history of the Christian faith, but the CHURCH came before the Bible and decided which books actually went into the Bible... so I'm not sure why your "proof" needs to come from the Bible and not the Church....???

The Church defines dogma...... a book can not interpret itself.

Jesus is proclaimed to be divine because of the tradition passed down from the Apostles to the early Church.

 

[Poisonshady313]

can i see that verse, if it's no trouble.

For the sake of speeding things along,

John 10:30 I and [my] Father are one.


I'd hit 'em back with a little of this:

Say: He is Allah, the One and Only;

Allah, the Eternal, Absolute;
He begetteth not, nor is He begotten;
And there is none like unto Him.

Surah 112
​

 

[Gharib]

Ummm... I'm not sure how much you know about the history of the Christian faith,

how much? zero, zilch. i don't know anything, thats why i was curious about this.

but the CHURCH came before the Bible and decided which books actually went into the Bible... so I'm not sure why your "proof" needs to come from the Bible and not the Church....???

but the church must have a source where it can link it's statements to.

if the bible doesn't say that jesus says he is god, but the church wants it to say, and make it up but have nothing to reference it to. then thats made up. it's not true.

i will accept it from the church too, but if it has taken it out of somewhere rather than making it up out of nowhere.

The Church defines dogma...... a book can not interpret itself.

sorry whats this?

Jesus is proclaimed to be divine because of the tradition passed down from the Apostles to the early Church.

so the traditions tell you that jesus must have been devine. have i got this right?

if so can you tell me about some of these traditions?

 

[Gharib]

For the sake of speeding things along,

John 10:30 I and [my] Father are one.


I'd hit 'em back with a little of this:

Say: He is Allah, the One and Only;

Allah, the Eternal, Absolute;
He begetteth not, nor is He begotten;
And there is none like unto Him.​

Surah 112​

so does this verse mean that they are 2 gods, or that jesus is the one god?

is there a commentary to this verse?

 

[Katzpur]

is there any verse in the bible that says something like:

i jesus, the father or something similar to this?

if jesus is god, there should be a verse like that in the bible right?

now i personally do not know nything about the bible, but am curious about this.

Of course Jesus never claimed to be His own Father. He wasn't God the Father. He was the Only Begotten Son of God, which pretty much makes Him just as divine as His divine Parent.

 

[te_lanus]

can you post that verse, please?

hi. it is john 14:16. also john 5:16-6:1 alude that jesus ìs only god's son

 

[Katzpur]

so does this verse mean that they are 2 gods, or that jesus is the one god?

is there a commentary to this verse?

It means that they are two distinct beings who are united as "one" in will and purpose. They also share the title of "God." In the Bible, Jesus consistently acknowledges His Father as being greater than He is and even refers to Him as "my God." On the other hand, in one verse (I'd have to look it up to be able to quote it verbatim), God the Father addresses His Son, Jesus Christ, and says, "Thy throne, oh God..."

 

[Gharib]

It means that they are two distinct beings who are united as "one" in will and purpose. They also share the title of "God." In the Bible, Jesus consistently acknowledges His Father as being greater than He is and even refers to Him as "my God." On the other hand, in one verse (I'd have to look it up to be able to quote it verbatim), God the Father addresses His Son, Jesus Christ, and says, "Thy throne, oh God..."

does god in christianity have a name or names?

if so is his surename christ? (i'm just having a laught with this i appologise)

 

[Poisonshady313]

so does this verse mean that they are 2 gods, or that jesus is the one god?

is there a commentary to this verse?

I don't really know or care... I was just providing you with the location of the verse, 'cause you never know if you're gonna get a verse when you ask for it.

 

[Gharib]

I don't really know or care... I was just providing you with the location of the verse, 'cause you never know if you're gonna get a verse when you ask for it.

i wasn't necessaraly asking you, anyone can help out.

 

[Poisonshady313]

i wasn't necessaraly asking you, anyone can help out.

Okie dokie.

 

[Scott1]

but the church must have a source where it can link it's statements to.

Again, you are trying to impose Muslim thinking into Christianity... does not work.

The "source" is the teachings of Jesus Christ transmitted orally to his followers... remember, this is how Christianity functioned for several HUNDRED years before there was anything close to a Bible. The written text is only PART of the Christian faith, not the entire thing --- like Islam.

so the traditions tell you that jesus must have been devine. have i got this right?

Correct... our faith is based upon Scripture AND Tradition.

if so can you tell me about some of these traditions?

CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Tradition and Living Magisterium

Enjoy.

 

[Katzpur]

does god in christianity have a name or names?

If you are referring to God the Father, my religion (Latter-day Saint Christianity) refers to Him as "Elohim" although this is technically a title. If you are referring to the Son of God, we refer to Him as "Jesus," although He was known pre-mortally as "Jehovah."

if so is his surename christ? (i'm just having a laught with this i appologise)

No, I don't believe people actually used surnames at the period of time in which He lived. "Christ" is also more of a title than a name. It refers to a "Savior" or "Messiah" so the correct usage would probably be "Jesus the Christ."

 

[Poisonshady313]

Again, you are trying to impose Muslim thinking into Christianity... does not work.

The "source" is the teachings of Jesus Christ transmitted orally to his followers... remember, this is how Christianity functioned for several HUNDRED years before there was anything close to a Bible. The written text is only PART of the Christian faith, not the entire thing --- like Islam.

Correct... our faith is based upon Scripture AND Tradition.

CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Tradition and Living Magisterium

Enjoy.

Given this post, I wonder what the Catholic position is regarding the Talmud.

 

[Scott1]

Given this post, I wonder what the Catholic position is regarding the Talmud.

CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Talmud

 

[Ghostaka]

Peace be upon you. Sorry for interfering guys...

But I (obviously?) agree that Jesus (PBUH) never claimed divinity.

As per dialogue wif ma' brother and sister Christians:

Nowhere in the Bible has Jesus (PBUH), himself, said "I am God" or "Worship me. For some time now, I've been doing some digging and found Jesus (PBUH)'s words contrary of the Christian claim.

Bear with me lol, I hope I quoted the newest of the new translations(?) from BibleGateway.com: A searchable online Bible in over 100 versions and 50 languages. < and I hope this is considered a reliable source:

John 14:28 (New International Version)

28 "You heard me say, 'I am going away and I am coming back to you.' If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I.

John 10:29 (New International Version)

29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all[a]; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand.

Footnotes:

1. John 10:29 Many early manuscripts: What my Father has given me is greater than all

John 5:30 (New International Version)

30 By myself I can do nothing; I judge only as I hear, and my judgment is just, for I seek not to please myself but him who sent me.

John 17:3 (New International Version)

3 Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.

Matthew 12:28 (New International Version)

28 But if I drive out demons by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.

Matthew 19:16-17 (New International Version)

The Rich Young Man

16 Now a man came up to Jesus and asked, "Teacher, what good thing must I do to get eternal life?"
17 "Why do you ask me about what is good?" Jesus replied. "There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, obey the commandments."

Matthew 5:17-20 (New International Version)

The Fulfillment of the Law

17 "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.

Luke 11:20 (New International Version)

20 But if I drive out demons by the finger of God, then the kingdom of God has come to you.

Acts 2:22 (New International Version)

22 "Men of Israel, listen to this: Jesus of Nazareth was a man accredited by God to you by miracles, wonders and signs, which God did among you through him, as you yourselves know.

Just my theory, but I think if you collect all of the quotes of Jesus (PBUH) (i.e. without the ambiguous statements) , you would not find a claim of divinity in them.

Throughout the Holy Qur'an Allah says (many times):

253. Those apostles We endowed with gifts, some above others: To one of them Allah spoke; others He raised to degrees (of honour); to Jesus the son of Mary We gave clear (Signs), and strengthened him with the holy spirit. If Allah had so willed, succeeding generations would not have fought among each other, after clear (Signs) had come to them, but they (chose) to wrangle, some believing and others rejecting. If Allah had so willed, they would not have fought each other; but Allah Fulfilleth His plan. {The Holy Qur'an, Chapter 2}

I strongly believe that if you compared what Muhammad (PBUH), Jesus (PBUH) and Moses (PBUH) said, you would find one message; from One source.

Peace be upon you, once again.

 

[Ghostaka]

CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Talmud

Lol, I just took liberty to "check out some stuff" as it were:

CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Koran

...and "wow" , what an analysis..... :sarcastic

Peace be upon you.

 

[Scott1]

...and "wow" , what an analysis..... :sarcastic

Just remember that the Catholic Church does not claim to be an authority on Islam... and certainly does not try in vain to twist around the Koran in a weak attempt to prove our faith. :cover: