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Did Jesus say he was God???

Dirty Penguin

Dirty Penguin

Master Of Ceremony
Mark2020 said:
Don't put words in my mouth.
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Actually I didn't. Shucks I went so far as to not even mention your name.....:rolleyes:

Mark2020 said:
The vast majority of translations in many languages agree with these:
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And a vast majority don't agree. I've posted the ones used by the Catholic Church as well as their commentary as to how some Catholics view the verse and even posting the USCCB and how they've put the verse in context and the understanding is the doxology to "God" and not Yeshua.

http://www.usccb.org/bible/romans/9
Theirs the patriarchs, and from them, according to the flesh, is the Messiah. God who is over all be blessed forever. Amen.

Psalms 41:14
Blessed be the LORD, the God of Israel, from all eternity and forever. Amen. Amen.





;)
 
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M

Mark2020

Well-Known Member
Muffled said:
This is what the ASV and NASV have: Rom 9:5 whose are the fathers, and of whom is Christ as concerning the flesh, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.

However it is a moot point because the "who" in this verse refers both to Christ and God.
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Actually both "who is God over all, forever praised!" and "who is over all, God blessed forever." describe Christ.
 
M

Mark2020

Well-Known Member
Dirty Penguin said:
Actually I didn't. Shucks I went so far as to not even mention your name.....:rolleyes:
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Of course you didn't.

And a vast majority don't agree...
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" a vast majority" that's funny.:D

Picking such translation over the vast majority only shows your biased view.
Their poor note on the verse show that their translation is based on context not on grammar.
 
Dirty Penguin

Dirty Penguin

Master Of Ceremony
Mark2020 said:
Picking such translation over the vast majority only shows your biased view.
Their poor note on the verse show that their translation is based on context not on grammar.
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Funny seeing as though I picked *trinitarian* (Catholic) bibles....and I'm not even a Catholic....:facepalm:
 
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Pegg

Pegg

Jehovah our God is One
Mark2020 said:
What has romans 15:6 got to do with anything?
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it has a lot to do with it because romans 15:6, and many more like it, are a contradiction to the way trinitarians render some verses.

Do you believe the bible contradicts itself? If yes, then why bother with it, and if No, how do you harmonize the above verse with the dogma that Jesus is God?
 
M

Mark2020

Well-Known Member
Pegg said:
it has a lot to do with it because romans 15:6, and many more like it, are a contradiction to the way trinitarians render some verses.

Do you believe the bible contradicts itself? If yes, then why bother with it, and if No, how do you harmonize the above verse with the dogma that Jesus is God?
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I see no contradiction. But we are discussing another verse here.
 
M

Mark2020

Well-Known Member
(Matthew 13:15 [KJV])
For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
 
M

Mark2020

Well-Known Member
And I love how this verse rhymes in Arabic:

(Matthew 13:15 [AraSVDV])
لأَنَّ قَلْبَ هذَا الشَّعْب قَدْ غَلُظَ، وَآذَانَهُمْ قَدْ ثَقُلَ سَمَاعُهَا. وَغَمَّضُوا عُيُونَهُمْ، لِئَلاَّ يُبْصِرُوا بِعُيُونِهِمْ، وَيَسْمَعُوا بِآذَانِهِمْ، وَيَفْهَمُوا بِقُلُوبِهِمْ، وَيَرْجِعُوا فَأَشْفِيَهُمْ
 
Dirty Penguin

Dirty Penguin

Master Of Ceremony
Muffled said:
I can see "God blessed" as a reference to a doxology but "who is forever" is a direct refeence to God and Jesus.
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No it's not.

Paul's doxology stems from the Old Testament.

Psalms 41:14
Blessed be the LORD, the God of Israel, from all eternity and forever. Amen. Amen.
We also find this doxology in the book of Nehemiah.

Nehemiah 9:5
The Levites Jeshua, Kadmiel, Bani, Hashabneiah, Sherebiah, Hodiah, Shebaniah, and Pethahiah said, “Arise, bless the LORD, your God, from eternity to eternity!” “And may they bless your glorious name,which is exalted above all blessing and praise.”

So the one who is forever is not Yeshua but in reference to YHWH. We know it's Paul's doxology considering......

Romans 1:25
They changed the truth of God into a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator who is blessed to the ages. Amen."

As well as here....

2 Corinthians 11:31
"The God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ knows that I am not lying, he being blessed to the ages."

;)
 
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yourgraceisenough

yourgraceisenough

Active Member
revelations chapter 1 vs 8...8I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

revelations chapter 1 vs 17-18..17And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last: 18I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

I think this is conclusive that Jesus is God..
 
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