Did Jesus say he was God???

[Dirty Penguin]

revelations chapter 1 vs 8...

8I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

revelations chapter 1 vs 17-18..17And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:18I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

I think this is conclusive that Jesus is God..

No it doesn't.....

Read Revelation 3:12

Revelation 3:12 (Codex Sinaiticus)
He that overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go out no more, and I will write upon him the name of my God and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem that comes down out of heaven from my God, and my new name.

Sorry. Even the "raised" and "ascended" Yeshua, while back in heaven, believed he had a god...Even Paul said Yeshua had a god...


2 Corinthians 11:31
"The God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ knows that I am not lying, he being blessed to the ages."

Even Revelation 4 and 5 tells us that Yeshua (the lamb) is not the same as he who is sitting upon the throne receiving praise from its creation.

 

[yourgraceisenough]

No it doesn't.....

Read Revelation 3:12

Revelation 3:12 (Codex Sinaiticus)
He that overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go out no more, and I will write upon him the name of my God and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem that comes down out of heaven from my God, and my new name.

Sorry. Even the "raised" and "ascended" Yeshua, while back in heaven, believed he had a god...Even Paul said Yeshua had a god...


2 Corinthians 11:31
"The God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ knows that I am not lying, he being blessed to the ages."

Even Revelation 4 and 5 tells us that Yeshua (the lamb) is not the same as he who is sitting upon the throne receiving praise from its creation.

rev 3-12 is irrelevant...Jesus is speaking because they are coming to God through him they will bear God's name...

2 corinthians is not Jesus speaking.....so it doesn't matter

rev 4 and 5 are irrelevant neither speak against the trinity...

 

[Dirty Penguin]

rev 3-12 is irrelevant...Jesus is speaking because they are coming to God through him they will bear God's name...

The fact of the matter is he believed he has a god and is not "God".

2 corinthians is not Jesus speaking.....so it doesn't matter

Only that Paul believe Yeshua had a god and was not "God".....

rev 4 and 5 are irrelevant neither speak against the trinity...

Sure it goes against trinity. Chapters 4 and 5 explicitly tells us who "God" is and who Yeshua is and none of "God's" creature thought Yeshua was "God"......

 

[yourgraceisenough]

how could Jesus be without sin if he wasn't God, he knew exactly who he was..


not at all Paul knew who Jesus was and told him so....

why would God who professes to be a jealous God allow Jesus to be worshipped....

why would the word of God say the only way to the father was through Jesus...

rev 4-5 are references to the facets of God not seperates..

 

[Dirty Penguin]

how could Jesus be without sin if he wasn't God, he knew exactly who he was..

It's irrelevant to the thread question. Yeshua said he wasn't "God".

not at all Paul knew who Jesus was and told him so....

What Paul said and what you think Paul knew are two different things. He said Yeshua had a god. Yeshua confirms this.

why would God who professes to be a jealous God allow Jesus to be worshipped....

Once again, it's irrelevant. Who did Yeshua worship if he was "God"..?

why would the word of God say the only way to the father was through Jesus...

Because Yeshua is known as the mediator or intercessor. If you are a mediator then you're obviously not "God".

rev 4-5 are references to the facets of God not seperates..

Not according to the way John is describing what he say. John explicitly says "God" was on the throne receiveing prays from his creation while there was none who was worthy of opening the seals that "God" had in his hand. John begins to cry and an angel tells him not to cry because "The Lamb" Yeshua is worthy...then John said Yeshua, who was standing..not sitting, steps from the midst of the 24 elders to take the scroll from the hand of his god.......:sorry1:

 

[Shermana]

Isn't it great when a verse that proves someone wrong is "irrelevant"?

 

[Dirty Penguin]

Isn't it great when a verse that proves someone wrong is "irrelevant"?

Just a ploy to hold onto trinitarian dogma.....regardless what the scriptural evidence says...

 

[InChrist]

Jesus Christ the Son of God came to do the will of His Father, to be a servant, and to be a representative of man, the Son of Man, the second Adam. As the Son of Man and the Head and intercessor of His church He continues to represent humanity even in His resurrected state in heaven. From this position He calls the Father, my God, when speaking to the church in revelation. This expression alone does not negate all the messianic prophecies, the events of His life, and the many other scriptures which are a testimony of the deity of Jesus Christ.

 

[Mark2020]

revelations chapter 1 vs 8...8I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

revelations chapter 1 vs 17-18..17And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:18I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

I think this is conclusive that Jesus is God..

Yes, it is.
Not only from this verse, or from the many verses that we discussed in this topic, but also from the whole bible, from the first book to the last book.

But you'll see that some look really hurt when this fact is shown, that they would try badly to disprove it. Even those who know nothing would just try to copy and paste any stuff from the web (even without understanding what they copy) just to try and disprove this fact. But I think the Bible tells us who are really hurt by this fact.

 

[yourgraceisenough]

Yes, it is.
Not only from this verse, or from the many verses that we discussed in this topic, but also from the whole bible, from the first book to the last book.

But you'll see that some look really hurt when this fact is shown, that they would try badly to disprove it. Even those who know nothing would just try to copy and paste any stuff from the web (even without understanding what they copy) just to try and disprove this fact. But I think the Bible tells us who are really hurt by this fact.

it's mainly the JW'S and LDS who deny the deity of Jesus as it interferes with their own doctrines...

 

[Mark2020]

it's mainly the JW'S and LDS who deny the deity of Jesus as it interferes with their own doctrines...

What do we understand if we put these two verses together:

(John 3:16 [NIV])
For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

(John 15:13 [NIV])
Greater love has no one than this, that he lay down his life for his friends.

 

[yourgraceisenough]

What do we understand if we put these two verses together:

(John 3:16 [NIV])
For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

(John 15:13 [NIV])
Greater love has no one than this, that he lay down his life for his friends.

what we have is a huge hole in the JW'S lie...

 

[Pegg]

what we have is a huge hole in the JW'S lie...

The scriptures tell us that God gave his son for us. And they say Jesus willingly submitted to give his life.

I cant see how these two verses prove that Jesus is God.

Question:
do the above scriptures say God gave himself or his son?

 

[yourgraceisenough]

The scriptures tell us that God gave his son for us. And they say Jesus willingly submitted to give his life.

I cant see how these two verses prove that Jesus is God.

Question:
do the above scriptures say God gave himself or his son?

he gave himself clothed in flesh...

does the word say that the arch angel michael gave his life for all sin???

 

[Mark2020]

I cant see how these two verses prove that Jesus is God.

Of course you can't, as long as you are limiting your thoughts to such a belief.

 

[not nom]

Of course you can't, as long as you are limiting your thoughts to such a belief.

oh, the irony.

those verses, as many others, are rather clear that jesus is not god. jesus says he does the will of god, not his own. he doesn't say "instead of human stuff", but (paraphrased) "in everything I do I seek the will of the father, not my own". he prays to god, and so on.

that all is so crystal clear... and random non-sequiturs don't change that. saying "the whole bible proves it" is just hogwash, it can be translated to "I have no argument". and you don't.

have you ever considered that you may very well be part of a religion jesus warned against, and which will ultimately pave the way for someone to claim they are god, aka the antichrist? maybe it is no coincidence that under the nazis, the jehova's witnesses were persecuted (as "bible researchers"), while the majority of the mainstream christians, excluding the confessing church, marched in goosestep... bah. so much for "the bible tells us who is hurt and why".. you seem to project a whole lot. jesus wasn't god, isn't god, would probably rather have cut out his own tongue than claim to be god. if you say otherwise, bring scripture.

 

[espo35]

Jesus prayed to God, his Father, throughout his adult life..... If he was/is God, wouldn't that make him....uhhhhh....insane??

 

[Mark2020]

oh, the irony...

Why not check the context before jumping into other people's discussion and throwing meaningless words?

 

[Mark2020]

Jesus prayed to God...

This has already been discussed in this topic.

 

[yourgraceisenough]

Yes Jesus did say he was God...

He also implied he was God and he also acted as God....