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Did Jesus say he was God???
- Thread starter Muffled
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yourgraceisenough
Active Member
its not the father speaking it is Jesus, it continues...
17And when I had seen him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying: Fear not. I am the First and the Last, 18And alive, and was dead. And behold I am living for ever and ever and have the keys of death and of hell.
17And when I had seen him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying: Fear not. I am the First and the Last, 18And alive, and was dead. And behold I am living for ever and ever and have the keys of death and of hell.
yourgraceisenough
Active Member
lol...of course it is...it is repeated three times in a span of around ten scriptures, it is a clear enough statement all three are about the same entity for the same reason, any other assumption would be stupid, especially when tied in with the I am statements and the Jews claims of blasphemy and the fact that a Jealous God would make another a point of worship or the only way to the father...
it all makes perfect sense...
it all makes perfect sense...
Shermana
Heretic
It's stupid to believe that they are the same speaker when it clearly refers to them as different speakers, and it's also stupid to completely ignore what I said about Firstborn among Creation and Last Adam. But sidestepping arguments is a Trinitarian and Antinomian hallmark. No need to read that link I posted either, what a waste of time that would be!
I do find it amusing that you won't even bother discussing the specifics of what I say and simply resort to repeating yourself and calling my argument "Stupid", I'd be annoyed if I didn't deal with this so many times from Trinitarians. Do you want to actually address what I said in the previous posts about the "I am" statements and 10:33 or just repeat yourself?
As for "Worship", are you aware that even King David was "worshipped"? Do you know what "Worship" means?
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yourgraceisenough
Active Member
it does not set them as different speakers at all and all the background information points to the same thing, the fact that this does not fit your doctrinal beliefs is the only problem here...
That is god speaking and god and the lamb are distinguished from each other in chapter 7.
Salvation belongs to our God,
who sits on the throne,
and to the Lamb.
*Note that the lamb is not sitting on the throne.
yourgraceisenough
Active Member
but salvation belongs also to the lamb, when does God share salvation...
the three statements are about the same entity....
Jesus is God..
the three statements are about the same entity....
Jesus is God..
No they aren't the same entity. God is not the lamb. God is sitting on the throne and blood is being poured on the lamb to make it white.
yourgraceisenough
Active Member
your quote said salvation belongs to God and the lamb, why would a Jealous God share salvation...
because they are the same entity, just as the the I am statements and the alpha and omega statements are all about the same entity....
because they are the same entity, just as the the I am statements and the alpha and omega statements are all about the same entity....
You haven't shown they are the same entity. The verses show they are separate entities. The lamb stays the lamb to the end so it couldn't be Jesus speaking in the beginning nor would he be the angel speaking throughout Revelations.
Dirty Penguin
Master Of Ceremony
Nope. Sorry. Context for that is explained right here,,,,,,,
[youtube]XCB1jmTpe6I[/youtube]
Jesus is NOT the ALPHA AND OMEGA - YouTube
Nope. Sorry. That verse only shows that Yeshua existed before Abraham.
Nope. The power to forgive sins is something his god granted him.
Matthew 9:6 and 8
But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins, then saith he to the sick of the palsy, Arise, take up thy bed, and go unto thine house. .....But when the multitudes saw it, they marveled, and glorified God, which had given such power unto men.
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Dirty Penguin
Master Of Ceremony
the statement is in every single version of the bible I have....
Then check the oldest known codex, "the oldest known bible".....The Codex Sinaiticus".....You will find that A LOT of the modern day interpolations (passages added by scribes) are not present in the oldest of manuscripts such as the one you keep referring to.
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Dirty Penguin
Master Of Ceremony
Not only that but way back in chapter 4 and 5 The Lamb is "standing" amongst the the elders. This is an explicit statement..then John says "God" was seated upon the throne and The Lamb steps forward to take the scroll from the hand of his god. This is what John said he saw.....This is how we know they're not the same. Just as well as the chapter you pointed out.
yourgraceisenough
Active Member
here we go again the three scriptures in rev.. show that the three statements I am the alpha and the omega are clearly about the same person...
the statement alive, died and rose again clarifies that that person is God of which Jesus is one in the same as to my knowledge God almighty never died...
added to the I am statements Jesus made and the fact that the Jews who crucified Jesus knew what Jesus was implying and that a "jealous" God would make Jesus the only way to salvation and offer him up to worship all demonstrate the fact Jesus and God are one in the same..
the statement alive, died and rose again clarifies that that person is God of which Jesus is one in the same as to my knowledge God almighty never died...
added to the I am statements Jesus made and the fact that the Jews who crucified Jesus knew what Jesus was implying and that a "jealous" God would make Jesus the only way to salvation and offer him up to worship all demonstrate the fact Jesus and God are one in the same..
lol
You can keep closing your eyes, but it won't go away.
http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/religious-debates/121296-john-1-1-anarthrous-theos-big.html
hahaha, you funny guy!
Even your argument here is so funny!
Throwing such poor arguments only show how desperate you are.
By the way, do you want me to remind you how many times you ran away from our discussions?
Anyway, all translations have "the Alpha and the Omega" here, referring to Lord God:
(Revelation 1:8 [NIV]) I am the Alpha and the Omega, says the Lord God, "who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty."
and He who is to come was pierced:
(Revelation 1:7 [NIV]) Look, he is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see him, even those who pierced him; and all the peoples of the earth will mourn because of him. So shall it be! Amen.
(Revelation 1:8 [NIV]) I am the Alpha and the Omega, says the Lord God, "who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty."
and He who is to come was pierced:
(Revelation 1:7 [NIV]) Look, he is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see him, even those who pierced him; and all the peoples of the earth will mourn because of him. So shall it be! Amen.
outhouse
Atheistically
lol...