Dirty Penguin
Master Of Ceremony
This is such a cop-out to pretend as though you are victorious....Where did I admit defeat?
Was it because I mentioned the historical fact that John's gospel is different that it's predecessors?
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Did Jesus say he was God???
- Thread starter Muffled
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This is such a cop-out to pretend as though you are victorious....Where did I admit defeat?
Was it because I mentioned the historical fact that John's gospel is different that it's predecessors?
Shermana
Heretic
One particular difference with John (and a reason why more than one scholar thinks the ending was forged) is that the Disciples meet Jesus at a different place than in Matthew and thus John directly clashes with Matthew. So John 20:28 is suspect. For those who think John 20:28 is an authentic verse, the question is: Where did Jesus meet the Disciples?
We've discussed this before, I think when you brought up the diatessaron which proved you wrong.
And as usual you ran away then.
Dirty Penguin
Master Of Ceremony
I agree. I have no problem, per se, with John. I was merely conversing with outhouse about how different it is to the other three (where Matt. and Luke drew from Mark) as well as how it tends to read more like a Greek story. I realize this thread is not necessarily the best place to discuss authenticity because to engage in this particular thread you start with the assumption that (God exist, Yeshua existed, and the 4 gospels are as historical as one can get concerning the life of Yeshua).
outhouse
Atheistically
the wiki link is chocked full of valid history on the subject
Ilike this
In the synoptics, Jesus speaks often about the Kingdom of God; his own divine role is obscured (see Messianic secret). In John, Jesus talks openly about his divine role. He says, for example, that he is the way, the truth, and the life. He echoes Yahweh's own statements with several "I am" declarations that also identify him with symbols of major significance:[74]
- "the bread of life"[6:35]
- "the light of the world"[8:12]
- "the gate of the sheep"[10:7]
- "the good shepherd"[10:11]
- "the resurrection and the life"[11:25]
- "the way, the truth, and the life"[14:6] and
- "the real vine"[15:1][8]
[8] Spong argued that the "I Am" statements are in reference to YHWH, and interpreted John 12:44 as meaning that Jesus expressly denied being God
Shermana
Heretic
Fine, I may have been wrong on the Diatesseron. What does that have to do with where the Disciples actually meet Jesus?
:help:
We discussed it too before.
Shermana
Heretic
Care to link to the post where you conclusively proved that the ending of John and Matthew don't clash ? Oh wait, you didn't.
It was the same discussion.
Go look for it.
Shermana
Heretic
Why don't you just repeat what you said in two sentences or less on why you think the ending of Matthew and John don't clash instead of sending the other person on a wild goose chase to back your own claim for you?
I won't repeat my words.
outhouse
Atheistically
I like this study on john
According to the majority viewpoint for most of the 20th century, Jesus' teaching in John is largely irreconcilable with that found in the Synoptics, and scholars have chosen the version found in the Synoptics as representing the teaching of the historical Jesus
looks like john holds little credibility on what jesus may have ever said
According to the majority viewpoint for most of the 20th century, Jesus' teaching in John is largely irreconcilable with that found in the Synoptics, and scholars have chosen the version found in the Synoptics as representing the teaching of the historical Jesus
looks like john holds little credibility on what jesus may have ever said
outhouse
Atheistically
awe shucks a few more that find the reality of the pieces
The scholars of the Jesus Seminar identify the historical inferiority of John as foundational to their work.
Geza Vermes discounts all the teaching in John when reconstructing his view of "the authentic gospel of Jesus
The scholars of the Jesus Seminar identify the historical inferiority of John as foundational to their work.
Geza Vermes discounts all the teaching in John when reconstructing his view of "the authentic gospel of Jesus
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waitasec
Veteran Member
looks like a nervous laugh to me...
outhouse
Atheistically
I know its hillarious.
doesnt have a clue about scholarships only language skills in certain text and thinks thats all you need to make up real history.
Nothing is more hilarious in this forum than reading your posts and the way you quote from wikipedia, taking part of a sentence and then adding a full stop in the middle. And the fact that you think you know all the history of the world...