Did Jesus say he was God???

[Mark2020]

by "refuted" you mean saying "fail" all the time, lol?

This was before some pages in this topic.

no, it just shows you ignore everything else. like, when I asked you ages ago, what makes you think this makes ANY sense, seeing how the psalms was hardly written in greek originally

I don't remember such post.
Anyway, why does this matter? Other than the fact that you can't comment on using the same expression for both verses?

in other words, you have nothing
other than your biased opinion to support your claims...
using words like attacking reveals ones desperation.

so you prove my point
commenting on my words rather than my arguments shows that it's you that have nothing.

 

[not nom]

I don't remember such post.
Anyway, why does this matter? Other than the fact that you can't comment on using the same expression for both verses?

you ask why it matters that you are comparing the greek translation of a hebrew text to a greek text?? uh..

so you prove my point
commenting on my words rather than my arguments shows that it's you that have nothing.

heh, you simply say "I don't remember", and then respond the same way you did when I first brought that up, simply saying "this hasn't got anything to do with it". and then pretend that didn't happen.

 

[Mark2020]

you ask why it matters that you are comparing the greek translation of a hebrew text to a greek text?? uh..

Did you notice that it is the same language? :sarcastic

heh, you simply say "I don't remember", and then respond the same way you did when I first brought that up, simply saying "this hasn't got anything to do with it". and then pretend that didn't happen.

Did you notice the name in the quote?!!

 

[Shermana]

I would think so since the older documents weren't even orignally written in the same language. I smell interpolated. I and others have already mentioned that inserting god at the end of that phrase makes it sound non-sensical.

I agree that the Masoretic "G-d" at the end was interpolated and makes little sense. Is there any Targum on this?

 

[not nom]

Did you notice that it is the same language? :sarcastic

hebrew and greek? no.

Did you notice the name in the quote?!!

no! sorry haha.

 

[Mark2020]

hebrew and greek? no.

Yes, I was actually saying that hebrew and greek are the same language! :sarcastic

 

[Mark2020]

I agree that the Masoretic "G-d" at the end was interpolated and makes little sense. Is there any Targum on this?

Yes
Ps 90:2
כד איתגלי קדמך דעמך עתידין למחוב אתקינתא תתובא עד דלא טוריא איתנטלו ואיתבריאת ארעא ויתבי תבל ומן עלמא הדין עד עלמא דאתי את הוא אלהא׃
When it was manifest in your presence that your people were going to sin, you established repentance; before ever the mountains were lifted up and the earth and the world’s inhabitants created, and from this age to the age to come, you are God.

 

[Mark2020]

So after the Gospel of John, you are doubting the Tanakh now?
Someone else is admitting their defeat!

 

[not nom]

Yes, I was actually saying that hebrew and greek are the same language! :sarcastic

we are talking about the greek translation of a hebrew text, vs. a greek text. it's originally NOT the same language.

 

[Mark2020]

we are talking about the greek translation of a hebrew text, vs. a greek text. it's originally NOT the same language.

Both are in Koine Greek.
Otherwise, you'll have to explain how this expression changed from Psalms to John.

 

[Shermana]

Yes
Ps 90:2
כד איתגלי קדמך דעמך עתידין למחוב אתקינתא תתובא עד דלא טוריא איתנטלו ואיתבריאת ארעא ויתבי תבל ומן עלמא הדין עד עלמא דאתי את הוא אלהא׃
When it was manifest in your presence that your people were going to sin, you established repentance; before ever the mountains were lifted up and the earth and the world’s inhabitants created, and from this age to the age to come, you are God.

That's an Aramaic Targum?

 

[Mark2020]

That's an Aramaic Targum?

Yes..

 

[Shermana]

Yes..

Yes..? Got a link for that?

 

[Mark2020]

Yes..? Got a link for that?

Yes
The Comprehensive Aramaic Lexicon

 

[St Giordano Bruno]

He may have but went of further say "I was only joking"

 

[Dirty Penguin]

The few that were given were replied to and refuted.

You've refuted nothing. You presented a bias view from a couple of trinitarian scholars. I have found no non-trinitarian linguist/grammarian that sides with your view or the scholars you've presented. That in itself speaks volumes. What else is left?

You're fond of presenting Pe****a script and when I presented it and how it is actually translated by multiple translators you then you say what's important is the coptic. I have a few coptic translations by linguist that do not render it as trinitarians suggest it should be.

The context of John 8 has nothing to do with Yeshua claiming to be "God" considering the context started before that chapter and all throughout he said his father is "God" who sent him and who taught him. The attitude in John 8 stemmed from a building up of insults back and forth from the Jews and Yeshua and then the ultimate disrespect, as any Jew or Muslim would tell you, is to disrespect their patriarch Abraham in any way. This is why we refer to these religions as ("The Abrahamic Religions, or Abrahamic Faiths).

 

[Mark2020]

You've refuted nothing...

I replied to and refuted the view that you gave with proofs not only from references but from the bible, and you had no reply.
All what you could do was comment on the Gospel of John itself...

You're fond of presenting Pe****a script and when I presented it and how it is actually translated by multiple translators you then you say what's important is the coptic. I have a few coptic translations by linguist that do not render it as trinitarians suggest it should be.

The Pe****ta again!
Can you even read Aramaic?
Here again:
Younan's Interlinear has this note on John 8:58:
See note on verse 13 (24 in English translations). The idiom is present here in the English as well.

The note on verse 13: In Semitic thought, the phrase ‘Ena-na’ (I am) conveys a thought of eternal existence reserved only for God. This naturally leads to the following question in verse 14 (25).

They only used past tense to fit "before Abraham was", which I proved wrong using Psalms 90:2.

But since you insist on using the Pe****ta, take this:

Luke 2:11
Today in the town of David a Savior has been born to you; he is Christ the Lord
ܐܬܝܠܕ ܠܟܘܢ ܓܝܪ ܝܘܡܢܐ ܦܪܘܩܐ ܕܐܝܬܘܗܝ ܡܪܝܐ ܡܫܝܚܐ ܒܡܕܝܢܬܗ ܕܕܘܝܕ
ܡܪܝܐ means the LORD, the exclusive translation of YHVA in the Pe****ta.
Even Younan's interlinear renders it "the LORD" (all capitals)

Aramaic Bible in Plain English:
“For today, The Savior has been born to you, who is THE LORD JEHOVAH The Messiah, in the city of David.”

For the coptic, it's definitely present, no doubt. I gave Horner's translation and I could give dictionary definitions of the words (I know Coptic too).

But probably that's all what you can do. Attacking translations, scholars, even the Gospel itself...

The context ...

Your final resort when you have nothing left.
I already commented on that and you had no reply.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

Yes
The Comprehensive Aramaic Lexicon

Great because at that same site they render John 8:58 as....

ܐܡܪ ܠܗܘܢ ܝܫܘܥ܂ ܐܡܝܢ ܐܡܝܢ ܐܡܪ ܐ̱ܢܐ ܠܟܼܘܢ܃ ܕܿܥܕܼܠܐ ܢܗܘܐ ܐܒܼܪܗܡ ܐܢܐ ܐܝܬܼܝ܂
exist I Abraham existed that before to you I say truly truly Yeshua to them said

to them said Yeshua truly truly that before Abraham existed I exist

 

[Mark2020]

Great because at that same site they render John 8:58 as....

Did you read my post?!

Younan's Interlinear has this note on John 8:58:
See note on verse 13 (24 in English translations). The idiom is present here in the English as well.

The note on verse 13: In Semitic thought, the phrase ‘Ena-na’ (I am) conveys a thought of eternal existence reserved only for God. This naturally leads to the following question in verse 14 (25).

 

[Mark2020]

before Abraham existed I exist

After trying to argue for "I was".
Giving two contradicting arguments is self-defeating, for the second time...