Did Jesus say he was God???

[Mark2020]

One more from the Pe****ta for you:

1 Corinthians 12:3
ܡܛܠ ܗܢܐ ܡܘܕܥ ܐܢܐ ܠܟܘܢ ܕܠܝܬ ܐܢܫ ܕܒܪܘܚܐ ܕܐܠܗܐ ܡܡܠܠ ܘܐܡܪ ܕܚܪܡ ܗܘ ܝܫܘܥ ܘܐܦܠܐ ܐܢܫ ܡܫܟܚ ܠܡܐܡܪ ܕܡܪܝܐ ܗܘ ܝܫܘܥ ܐܠܐ ܐܢ ܒܪܘܚܐ ܕܩܘܕܫܐ

Aramaic Bible in Plain English:
Because I inform you of this: there is no man who speaks by The Spirit of God and says, “Yeshua is damned”, neither can a man say, “Yeshua is THE LORD JEHOVAH”, except by The Spirit of Holiness.

(Etheridge) I therefore make known to you, that there is no man who by the Spirit of Aloha speaketh, and saith that Jeshu is accursed; and no man also can say that Jeshu is THE LORD unless by the Spirit of Holiness.

ܡܪܝܐ is the translation of YHVH in the Pe****ta.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

After trying to argue for "I was".
Giving two contradicting arguments is self-defeating, for the second time...

I see no contradiction. Some translations from the Pe****ta render it (I was, I exist). Seemingly staying true to Strong's 1510 as well as other non-trinitarian Grammars.

 

[Mark2020]

I see no contradiction. Some translations from the Pe****ta render it (I was, I exist). Seemingly staying true to Strong's 1510 as well as other non-trinitarian Grammars.

Now you're starting to give meaningless arguments, and ignore everything I said.
eimi is present indicative.
Here is Strong's 1510:
Strong's Greek: 1510. ???? (eimi) -- I exist, I am

eimi: I exist, I am​

Original Word: εἰμί
Definition: I am, exist.

I've explained many times what it means in such a context.

 

[Muffled]

i made my point....and i provided biblical support
john 17:21
that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you


apparently god would have preferred it if people were unaware of their wrong doing... ignorance is bliss.

You have pointed at something but have not proved it. As in a card game where you have to follow the rules to make a point, in debate you have to follow the rules of logic to prove your conclusion; you can't simply jump to the conclusion.

You have provided a scripture that does not support your conclusion.

This is an unsupportable blasphemy.

 

[waitasec]

You have pointed at something but have not proved it. As in a card game where you have to follow the rules to make a point, in debate you have to follow the rules of logic to prove your conclusion; you can't simply jump to the conclusion.

You have provided a scripture that does not support your conclusion.

yes it does and i applied logic to john 17:21 and underlined the word just to make my point....don't like it, too bad
interesting tactic of how you avoided the argument all together...nice maneuver....i guess this is your way of conceding since you have provided nothing.

This is an unsupportable blasphemy.

you think i care? besides god forbade a&e from eating from the tree of knowledge of good and evil, didn't he?

next time try to argue the point instead of running from it

 

[Muffled]

yes it does and i applied logic to john 17:21 and underlined the word just to make my point....don't like it, too bad
interesting tactic of how you avoided the argument all together...nice maneuver....i guess this is your way of conceding since you have provided nothing.



you think i care? besides god forbade a&e from eating from the tree of knowledge of good and evil, didn't he?

next time try to argue the point instead of running from it

I will accept that at face value, however you did not communicate it to me in a way that I could understand it.

There's a lot of slip between the cup and the lip. Underlining is nice if you actually have something to say about what you underlined otherwise I am left to conjecture as to what you were referring.

I am just trying to pin you down to a rational proof.

Since you are compelling me to conjecture as to what your argument could be, I will accomodate you. It appears to me that you are arguning that Jesus can't be God in the flesh because believers are not God in the flesh. However your premise is not true. Believers are God in the flesh because they embody the Holy Spirit. So the answer is that God is one in Jesus just as much as He is one in believers to the extent that believers alow the Holy Spirit to abide and that is not a sure thing, so it requires prayer: may all be one;

 

[waitasec]

Since you are compelling me to conjecture as to what your argument could be,

my argument is that jesus never said he was god...my argument is that jesus and god are in one accord just as all the believers are..just as it says in john 17:21.
what else did you think it was?

 

[Muffled]

my argument is that jesus never said he was god...my argument is that jesus and god are in one accord just as all the believers are..just as it says in john 17:21.
what else did you think it was?

However the text does not say that. Just because you say it does not make it so. You still have to prove it. If you think the text says that, then you have to prove that the text says that.

For instance if the text were to say "one accord" I would agree with you but it doesn't. It is not simply an understood concept from "one" because later in scripture it says "one accord" precisely because it would not be understood unless stated.

Ac 1:14 These all with one accord continued stedfastly in prayer, with the women, and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with his brethren.

 

[waitasec]

However the text does not say that. Just because you say it does not make it so. You still have to prove it. If you think the text says that, then you have to prove that the text says that.

For instance if the text were to say "one accord" I would agree with you but it doesn't. It is not simply an understood concept from "one" because later in scripture it says "one accord" precisely because it would not be understood unless stated.

Ac 1:14 These all with one accord continued stedfastly in prayer, with the women, and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with his brethren.

the prayer starts like this:
john 17
1 After Jesus said this, he looked toward heaven and prayed:
“Father, the hour has come. Glorify your Son, that your Son may glorify you. 2 For you granted him authority over all people that he might give eternal life to all those you have given him. 3 Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent. 4 I have brought you glory on earth by finishing the work you gave me to do. 5 And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.

never mind that he is referring to himself in third person...
but what interests me here is that
gods glory somehow disappeared...

And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.
it doesn't add up...to jesus admitting he was god. how can god loose his glory?

 

[Dirty Penguin]

the prayer starts like this:
john 17
2 For you granted him authority over all people that he might give eternal life to all those you have given him. 3 Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.

it doesn't add up...to jesus admitting he was god. how can god loose his glory?

Or this one...John 6:38
I descended from heaven not to do my own will, but the will of Him who sent me.

 

[Mark2020]

it doesn't add up...to jesus admitting he was god. how can god loose his glory?

He didn't lose His glory:

(Philippians 2:6-7)
Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men

 

[starlite]

The trinity teaches that God asked himself to go to earth to save mankind.
Then he agreed with himself and volunteered himself to himself to offer himself.

Then God impregnated a woman as himself, with himself.
God prayed to himself and glorified himself repeatedly.
God strengthened himself and talked to himself.
Finally God forsook himself and sacrificed himself to prove his loyalty to
himself.

While dead he resurrected himself so he could exalt himself above himself.

Then he sat at his own right hand and waited until he placed his enemies as a
footstool.
Finally, with Satan's forces defeated, God would turn his kingdom over to
himself.
That all things would become everything to himself.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

He didn't lose His glory:
(Philippians 2:6-7)
Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men

Before verse 6, please note in verse 5 it says:
Let 'this' mind be in you,[us] which was also in Christ Jesus [mind].
So Jesus being in the form of God in verse 6 would be in the 'same mind' or same 'manner' as God.
Same 'form of mind' as being discussed in verse 5.
Jesus and his Father were always one or equal in thinking agreement.
We [us] should also have that humble mind of verse 3.

Jesus took on the form of a servant because Jesus,
before being sent to earth by God,
emptied himself of his pre-human heavenly life in order for God to send his life, so to speak, to Mary.

According to verse 9, Jesus does Not exalt himself, but God highly exalts Jesus. God gives Jesus a name.
Jesus does not give himself that name above all creation. [Acts 4v12]

According to verse 11, Isn't Jesus Lord [Not to his glory] but God's glory ?

 

[Mark2020]

So Jesus being in the form of God in verse 6 would be in the 'same mind' or same 'manner' as God.

:biglaugh:


(Philippians 2:6 [KJV]) Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

(Philippians 2:6 [NA27])
ὃς ἐν μορφῇ θεοῦ ὑπάρχων
οὐχ ἁρπαγμὸν ἡγήσατο
τὸ εἶναι ἴσα θεῷ,

μορφῇ :

morphé: form, shape​

Short Definition: form, shape, outward appearance
Definition: form, shape, outward appearance.

3444 morphḗ – properly, form (outward expression) that embodies essential (inner) substance so that the form is in complete harmony with the inner essence.

form. shape; figuratively, nature -- form.


A grammatical analysis of the Greek New Testament :

μορφή form; like “form”, μ. can den. anything from “outward appearance” to “substance”, in vv. 6–7 perh. transl. nature.

ὑπ-άρχων ptc -άρχω though often simply be, the exact sense is be from the beginning, w. ref. to God would mean being from all eternity.


The complete word study dictionary : New Testament

Morphé̄ in Phil. 2:6–8 presumes an obj. reality. No one could be in the form (morphé&#772 of God who was not God. However, morphé̄ is not the shaping of pure thought. It is the utterance of the inner life, a life that bespeaks the existence of God.

 

[Mark2020]

According to verse 11, Isn't Jesus Lord [Not to his glory] but God's glory ?

and God doesn't give His glory to another:

(Isaiah 42:8 [KJV]) I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.

 

[waitasec]

He didn't lose His glory:

(Philippians 2:6-7)

useless.
we are not talking about what is said in philipians are we...?
did jesus say he was god is the subject here...stay focused.

4 I have brought you glory on earth by finishing the work you gave me to do. 5 And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.
he didn't have it which is why he's asking for it...

it's as plain as the nose on your face.

 

[waitasec]

and God doesn't give His glory to another:

(Isaiah 42:8 [KJV]) I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.

another moot point...

 

[Mark2020]

useless.
we are not talking about what is said in philipians are we...?
did jesus say he was god is the subject here...stay focused.

It was a clear answer (with proof) to a clear question:
http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/2714340-post5491.html

And please have a look at this:
http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/2717109-post5494.html

Again, if this question is answered, we can discuss another question.

 

[Mark2020]

another moot point...

useless as long as you don't explain why.

 

[Mark2020]

useless.
we are not talking about what is said in philipians are we...?
did jesus say he was god is the subject here...stay focused.

I think you misunderstood my point.

It was focusing on Philippians 2:7

English Standard Version (©2001)
but made himself nothing, taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men.
New American Standard Bible (©1995)
but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men.
Young's Literal Translation
but did empty himself, the form of a servant having taken, in the likeness of men having been made,

Gill:

But made himself of no reputation,.... Or "nevertheless emptied himself"; not of that fulness of grace which was laid up in him from everlasting, for with this he appeared when he was made flesh, and dwelt among men; nor of the perfections of his divine nature, which were not in the least diminished by his assumption of human nature, for all the fulness of the Godhead dwelt in him bodily; though he took that which he had not before, he lost nothing of what he had; the glory of his divine nature was covered, and out of sight; and though some rays and beams of it broke out through his works and miracles, yet his glory, as the only begotten of the Father, was beheld only by a few; the minds of the far greater part were blinded, and their hearts hardened, and they saw no form nor comeliness in him to desire him; the form of God in which he was, was hid from them; they reputed him as a mere man, yea, as a sinful man, even as a worm, and no man: and to be thus esteemed, and had in such account, he voluntarily subjected himself, though infinitely great and glorious; as he did not assume deity by rapine, he was not thrust down into this low estate by force; as the angels that sinned when they affected to be as God, were drove from their seats of glory, and cast down into hell; and when man, through the instigation of Satan, was desirous of the same, he was turned out of Eden, and became like the beasts that perish; but this was Christ's own act and deed, he willingly assented to it, to lay aside as it were his glory for a while, to have it veiled and hid, and be reckoned anything, a mere man, yea, to have a devil, and not be God: O wondrous humility! astonishing condescension!
and took upon him the form of a servant; this also was voluntary; he "took upon him", was not obliged, or forced to be in the form of a servant; he appeared as one in human nature, and was really such; a servant to his Father, who chose, called, sent, upheld, and regarded him as a servant; and a very prudent, diligent, and faithful one he was unto him: and he was also a servant to his people, and ministered to men; partly by preaching the Gospel to them, and partly by working miracles, healing their diseases, and going about to do good, both to the bodies and souls of men; and chiefly by obtaining eternal redemption for his chosen ones, by being made sin and a curse for them; which though a very toilsome and laborious piece of service, yet as he cheerfully engaged in it, he diligently attended it, until he had finished it: so he was often prophesied of as a servant, in Isaiah 42:1, in which several places he is called in the Targum, , "my servant the Messiah": put these two together, "the form of God", and "the form of a servant", and admire the amazing stoop!
and was made in the likeness of men; not of the first Adam, for though, as he, he was without sin, knew none, nor did any; yet he was rather like to sinful men, and was sent in the likeness of sinful flesh, and was traduced and treated as a sinner, and numbered among transgressors; he was like to men, the most mean and abject, such as were poor, and in lower life, and were of the least esteem and account among men, on any score: or he was like to men in common, and particularly to his brethren the seed of Abraham, and children of God that were given him; he partook of the same flesh and blood, he had a true body, and a reasonable soul, as they; he was subject to the like sorrows and griefs, temptations, reproaches, and persecutions; and was like them in everything, excepting sin: a strange and surprising difference this, that he who was "equal to God", should be "like to sinful men!"