Did Jesus say he was God???

[LioneDea]

Originally Posted by LioneDea ' alt="View Post" class=inlineimg border=0 title="View Post" v:shapes="_x0000_i1029">
, why is that Proverbs 8:3 say’s:

Doth not wisdom cry? and understanding put forth her voice?

2 She standeth in the top of high places, by the way in the places of the paths.

3 She crieth at the gates, at the entry of the city, at the coming in at the doors.

Lione D’ ea: Does it mean for you the terminology of She is “personified as female”,

Yes and I backed it up with commentary. The "wisdom" spoken of is not a physical person. Furthermore the whole context of chapter 7,8, and 9 should reveal to any reader this book has nothing to do with Yeshua. It's not even him talking. Other scriptural translations show that whomever is speaking at Proverbs 8:22 and 23 is saying their god (CREATED) them. So, by your contention, you're stating that this verse is Yeshua talking and saying that his god created him? Right? If so then the claim that he is "God" is false.

This bible is used by many trinitarians.
Proverbs 8:22 NIV -
“The LORD brought me forth as the first of his works, before his deeds of old;"

Again, this is the RSV (Christian translated)
oremus Bible Browser
The Lord created me at the beginning of his work, the first of his acts of long ago.

This is how Strong's, a lexicon you've used in this thread, renders the verse.
Proverbs 8:22 The lord created me the head of his ways for his works.
The Lord created me the head of his ways for his works.



Originally Posted by LioneDea ' alt="View Post" class=inlineimg border=0 title="View Post" v:shapes="_x0000_i1030">
wrong…because there is also terminology of She which did not denote in human female, nor animal female, how sure you are that God is a male or God is a female, give only one verse to testify your statement, but if you can’t testify your statement then you are a liar, judging me a guiltywithout your basis?

Proverbs 8:22 and 23 is saying their god (CREATED) them.

Lione D' ea: The translation you have is wrong borther

That's why I said (personified)
Personified | Define Personified at Dictionary.com
to attribute human nature or character to (an inanimate object or an abstraction), as in speech or writing.

Lione D’ ea: False, there is the terminology SHE did not denote in female human, how about the word MOTHERLAND, MOTHERSHIP, does it mean this is human, if we say personified…REPRESENT something, meaning not only for human to word it as SHE, like in Proverbs 8:1-3 the word She implying in wisdom, does it mean the word wisdom is human.





Originally Posted by LioneDea ' alt="View Post" class=inlineimg border=0 title="View Post" v:shapes="_x0000_i1032">
Lione D’ ea: There is, in my side you didn’t catch up what is my point…this is one why I believe there is original Bible exist, and copy from original scriptures

One, we don't have access to an "original" bible and two, you can't know that the Codex Sinaiticus was copied from the "original" manuscripts. At best all we can say for sure is that the Codex Sinaiticus is the oldest known copy of copy(ies) of scripture.

Now that's not diminishing its importance because with that codex we now know that there were a lot of scribe interpolations in current versions of the bible. It has helped to remove a lot of false declarations from the scripture (example: John 3:16).

Originally Posted by LioneDea
“It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in”


Lione D’ ea: Do you believe that the earth is Circle in reality, how true it is, aren't this is not word of God?


No. I believe that when the writer wrote that he wrote it from the perspective that the Earth was flat but that is a subject for a different thread.

Lione D’ ea: That's your own opinion not in the Bible, because in my statement there are original Bible that exist, through SIGNATURE of God, what did God say in Deuteronomy 18:18 that:

“When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.”

Lione D’ ea: The signature of God through His prophet is if the thing does not come about or come true, that is the thing which the LORD has not spoken, that’s why I ask you a question if this is the word of God in 40:22 of Isaiah because it reads there:

“It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth,”

Lione D’ ea: In facts the earth is circle according not only Bible also in science, meaning my Bible speak the truth, therefore God signature my manual-script copies, to prove didn’t God said in Jeremiah 1:12 He said:

Then said the LORD unto me, Thou hast well seen: for I will hasten my word to perform it.

Lione D’ ea: So that is the signature of God His word, He preserve His word, for whom Psalms 102:18 it say’s?

“This shall be written for the generation to come: and the people which shall be created shall praise the LORD.” (King James Version)

Lione D’ ea So God preserve His word to written down for the generation to come so that people which shall be created shall praise the LORD, Codex Sinaiticus and other translation version is signature by God.



(end.)

 

[LioneDea]

Jesus (pbuh) born , and eat and go to toilet and tired and (killed as you believe )

God created Jesus (pbuh) as he created Adam without man or woman , at least Jesus (pbuh) created by woman .

can you expliane to us why there were more than 100 fake Gospels !!!? and the church choice only 4 of them ? maybe the other 96 Gospels are the true ?

look brothers , it's seems that the Orginal Gospel of Jesus (pbuh) , raped by many authors in that era .

Lione D' ea: Christians never object there was a man, but what is that man, John 1:1-3,14 Read?

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

2 The same was in the beginning with God.

3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

14 And the Word was made flesh,

Lione D' ea: Therefore He is not just a Man...

 

[Shermana]

And the word was a god. Anarthrous Theos. (See Acts 12:22 in event of disagreement).

And it should read: "All things were made THROUGH him". As it specifies in Wisdom of Solomon and Philo's writings (and in Proverbs 8), the "Word" is Co-creator.

(Once again, angels are called "gods").

 

[Shermana]

Lione D’ ea So God preserve His word to written down for the generation to come so that people which shall be created shall praise the LORD, Codex Sinaiticus and other translation version is signature by God.

So if you believe Codex Sinaiticus is signature by G-d, does that mean you believe Shepherd of Hermas should be considered Canon? I think the Shepherd should be Canonical, but not just because its in Sinaiticus.

 

[miss interpret]

the Alpha and Omega statements in revelations show that Jesus is indeed God.

 

[Shermana]

the Alpha and Omega statements in revelations show that Jesus is indeed God.

But Jesus never calls himself Alpha and Omega, the Father does in 1:8, 1:11 is an interpolation, and 22:13 is an Angel speaking a message from the Father. It's a very, very common, misinterpreted speaker confusion issue. Many current Bibles are honest enough to somewhat address this issue which Trinitarians have been exploiting.

However, the RSV, NRSV, NASB, NEB, REB, NKJV, NAB (1991 ed.), ISV, 21st Century King James Version, and TEV show by their use of quotation marks that someone else is now speaking in verse 12. Most Bibles indicate that the person who spoke verse 12 (whether God, angel, Jesus, or John) also spoke verse 13 (“I am Alpha and Omega&#8221.
Now the big question is: Is it clear that the speaker of verses 12 and 13 continues to speak? Some Bibles indicate this. But other highly respected trinitarian translations do not!

http://examiningthetrinity.blogspot.com/2009/09/ao-speaker-confusion.html

The RSV, NRSV, NASB, NEB, REB, NKJV, NAB (1991 ed.), ISV, 21st Century King James Version, and TEV show (by quotation marks and indenting) that Rev. 22:14 and 15 are not the words of the speaker of verses 12 and 13 but are John’s words. (The Jerusalem Bible and the NJB show us that the angel spoke all the words from verse 10 through verse 15.) Then they show Jesus as a new speaker beginning to speak in verse 16.

So, if you must insist that the person speaking just before verse 16 is the same person who is speaking in verse 16, then, according to the trinitarian RSV, NRSV, NASB, NEB, REB, NKJV, NAB (1991 ed.), ISV, 21st Century King James Version, and TEV, you are saying John is Jesus!!! (According to the JB and NJB you would be insisting that the angel is Jesus!)



And, just as the use of "I, John" indicated a new speaker in Revelation, so does the only other such usage in that same book. Yes, Rev. 22:16 - "I, Jesus" also introduces a new speaker. This means, of course, that the previous statement ("I am the Alpha and Omega") was made by someone else!

Now Jesus may call himself "First and Last", but that's a completely different story and not a title, since he's the "Firstborn of Creation" and the "Last Adam", and the "Firstborn among the dead" he is the "First and Last" among created beings.

http://examiningthetrinity.blogspot.com/2009/10/isa-446-rev-117-first-and-last.html

Now if we examine Rev. 1:17, 18, we can see in what sense "the first and last" (only) is intended there. Context shows that it is not (as it could have been) in the sense of the only direct creation by the Father, Jehovah, and it is certainly not in the sense of the only true God (John 17:1, 3), but it clearly refers to the resurrection (the dying and then living again) of Jesus!

Notice that the entire context refers to death and living again: Rev. 1:17:

"I am the first and the last, 18) and the living one; and I was [or `became'] dead, and behold I am alive for evermore, and I have the keys of death ..." - compare Rev. 2:8 (the only other place Jesus calls himself "the first and the last").

Jehovah, the Father, uses the expression at Rev. 22:13 - and makes no reference to dying and living again, apparently intending it as he did at Is. 44:6 - "I am the only God."
So in what sense is Jesus the first and last (only) resurrected person? Just as he was the first and last (only) of Jehovah's direct creations (and all other things were created through Jesus), so Jesus was also the first and last (only one) of those resurrected to eternal life who was resurrected directly by the Father (Jehovah) Himself (and all others are to be resurrected through Jesus who now has "the keys of death") - see John 6:39, 40; Acts 3:26; Acts 13:30, 33, 38.

 

[LioneDea]

And the word was a god. Anarthrous Theos. (See Acts 12:22 in event of disagreement).

And it should read: "All things were made THROUGH him". As it specifies in Wisdom of Solomon and Philo's writings (and in Proverbs 8), the "Word" is Co-creator.

(Once again, angels are called "gods").

Lione D' ea: Acts 12:22 Let us read:

"And the people gave a shout, saying, It is the voice of a god, and not of a man." (King James Version)


Lione D' ea: There was reverse happened in this event, because if who is the opponent of God, is their acknowledged as god, the one which came from God, for them He is a man, how come He is Man that according in John 1:14:


"And the Word was made flesh," (King James Version)


Lione D' ea: Therefore He is not just a man, to testify according in Christ He said:

Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. (King James Version)


Lione D' ea: Therefore He is not a man, so that the Jews understand what the Christ express to them, so Jews took stones to cast at him, yet it was said after they have, and saying:

"The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.

Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?

35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;

36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?

Lione D' ea: So the one which came from God, for them He is a man, but Herod the opponent of God...Jews make him as god, and what happened next

"And immediately the angel of the Lord smote him, because he gave not God the glory: and he was eaten of worms, and gave up the ghost." (Acts 12:23 of King James Version)

Lione D' ea: The angel of God struck him down, you know what is the reason "why Jews said to Christ He makest himself God, let us read John 5:18:

"Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God." (King James Version)


Lione D' ea: That's why Jews saith to him, he is blasphemy is because the God was his Father and He is equal to the God,the source of your information is wrong, that is my answer in your allegations in Christ.


(end.)

 

[Godobeyer]

But Jesus never calls himself Alpha and Omega, the Father does in 1:8, 1:11 is an interpolation, and 22:13 is an Angel speaking a message from the Father. It's a very, very common, misinterpreted speaker confusion issue. Many current Bibles are honest enough to somewhat address this issue which Trinitarians have been exploiting.

Examining the Trinity: AO - Speaker Confusion

Now Jesus may call himself "First and Last", but that's a completely different story and not a title, since he's the "Firstborn of Creation" and the "Last Adam", and the "Firstborn among the dead" he is the "First and Last" among created beings.

Examining the Trinity: Isa. 44:6 / Rev. 1:17 "First and the Last"

Good claim ,
Adam and all the Messangers of God , knew God as ONE ,your Torah did not claim that God is two , how they became three !!!!

Jesus (pbuh) never said worship me , on contrary He said worship God .
if he was God , he would ask his followers to obey him as they worship God

editors (authors) or translators of the orginal Gospel of Jesus (phub) which claim this lies .

 

[Dirty Penguin]

False…because the name Yeshua appeared when He was born of Mary in the flesh in Matthew 1:23-25 Read:

Lione D’ ea: Let us find out first who give the name Jesus Christ according in the scriptures, Philippians 2:9-11 Read:

“Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:

10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;”

11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. (King James Version)

Lione D’ ea: The God Father give His Son a name which above every name, the verse prove it that it instructed to Christ Jesus to testify my statement in Matthew 1:20-21 there was someone addressed Him to named the child Emmanuel instructed by the God Father, let us read:

“But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.

21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS:” (King James Version)

Yes. But no instructions were given to Mary or to anyone else to call the child's name "Immanuel".

Look, the scriptures weren't all written at the same time. Matthew, Mark, Luke and John were written at different times and for specific audiences. The book of Mark, the earliest of the four gospels, does not contain the "virgin birth" narrative. The reason why is this concept was not taught. By far the account in Matthew and Luke would be and is seen as an extraordinary event but it's curious as to Why the writer of Mark was oblivious to such a supernatural event. We know for a FACT that the writers of Matthew and Luke drew most of what they wrote in their gospels from Mark. Matthew and Luke saw fit to embellish their accounts for the audiences they were delivering their message to.

Even if we assume for the sake of argument that the event did happen we know it has nothing to do with the prophecy in Isaiah. Contextually it doesn't fit because Christians are not observing the WHOLE situation of Isaiah or more specifically the situation of Israel during that time.

Lione D’ ea: The angel of the Lord appeared with Joseph and said do not fear to take Mary as his wife, because at this hour Joseph is confusing to take Mary or not the reason was is he found Mary’s conceived that Knowing her there’s no man court her, but angel explain the situation that Mary’s conceived is of the Holy Spirit and she shall bring forth a son, this is the instructed of the angel to address him Jesus. Many now using the name Jesus in our era, but the meaning of Emmanuel is not for them…only in Christ, wherefore in verse 23 state:

“Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.” (King James Version)

I'm not sure how many times one can say this but as I've said...the prophecy in Isaiah 7:14 states the young woman was already with child. The be "with child" means to (be pregnant) and not become pregnant. I've given you the Jewish translation of that verse along with a few Christian translations. The primary use of the word (almah) in your scripture denotes a young woman or maiden. Contextually this fits concerning Isaiah.

Lione D’ ea: That is the instruction and address of the angel of the Lord in His servant, HE Is not Female, he born as male…hope you understand.

The instruction at Matthew and Luke was to call the child Yeshua not Immanuel. Now, I never said "he" was female. I've given you what is meant in Proverbs 8.

Lione D’ ea: The translation didn’t tell us that she is pregnant there already, the context says that a young-woman is WITH CHILD, with child where us to refer, in the bosom of the young-woman which she carry, meaning the young-woman will in the state of conceiving, you cannot address YOUNG WOMAN there if she had a first-born child and conceive again…

This is completely wrong. You don't know enough about the Hebrew language nor the Greek to make such a claim. The word "almah" means (young woman) because it was assumed a young woman of marriageable age was a virgin. When they translated the word into Greek it is rendered as "parthenos" which means virgin. That's how the Septuagint rendered it but the Hebrew word is not strict in that definition like the word (bethulah) is. Parthenos focuses on virginity. Almah doesn't focus on virginity like the word Bethula. This is why one can be an "almah" but not be a virgin. One can even be a virgin but not be an "almah".

“Virgin” or “Young Woman”? Isa 7:14 | Speaking of Scripture: Conversation about the word of God in the life and mission of the Church
"It turns out it’s more complicated than that. The original Hebrew of Isaiah 7:14 uses the word almah, which really does mean “young woman” rather than “virgin.” On the other hand, the Septuagint version of Isaiah, the Greek translation that was used by Jews for a couple centuries before the birth of Christ, uses the more specific parthenos, which does mean virgin. At that time an unmarried Jewish almah would be assumed to be a parthenos, so the Septuagint translation was completely reasonable."

CARM, an trinitarian apologetic site, confirms the above --> (Isaiah 7:14, in Hebrew means maiden, not virgin. Therefore, it is not a prophecy. | Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry)

Lione D’ ea: Doesn’t mean the brother of Jesus Christ in the flesh wrote in 20:17 you conclude He is not God, to prove it the God Father says His Son is God Hebrew 1:8 Read:

But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, (King James Version)

Hebrews 1:8 is FALSE. It's an interpolation. The earliest known manuscripts is different. I thought you would have quoted from it strictly since you boast it as ("the signature of God" and "the original Bible".) instead you're quoting from the KJV which we know is far from being consistent with the Codex Sinaiticus (earliest known bible).

Hebrews 1:8 (Codex Sinaiticus)
But with respect to the Son: Thy throne, O God, is forever and ever; and: A scepter of rectitude is the scepter of thy kingdom.

Even in the KJV (interpolated version) it means nothing considering verse 1:9 would be saying "God" has a god. This is another example of where unknown authors of these scriptures and letters use OT scripture to convey "their" point to a specific audience. Those verses have nothing to do with Yeshua. They were lifted from Psalms 45:7-8 and the context is for an Earthly king of that day and time. It wasn't a prophecy nor was it something "God" said to Yeshua.

Tehillim - Chapter 45 - Tanakh Online - Torah - Bible
Your throne, O judge, [will exist] forever and ever; the scepter of equity is the scepter of your kingdom. You loved righteousness and you hated wickedness; therefore God, your God, anointed you with oil of joy from among your peers.

NOTE: Elohiym is not exclusive to Yahweh. It can be used for men and angels. It can mean god, judge, goddess, godly. -->(Strong's Hebrew: 430. ???????? (elohim) -- God, god) also see Psalms 82:6 (which Yeshua quoted from).

Doth not wisdom cry? and understanding put forth her voice?
2 She standeth in the top of high places, by the way in the places of the paths.
3 She crieth at the gates, at the entry of the city, at the coming in at the doors.

Lione D’ ea: Does it mean for you the terminology of She is “personified as female”

YES. Not only did I give you a commentary from a Christian site that backs up my claim but I gave you the definition of "personified".

Lione D’ ea: False, there is the terminology SHE did not denote in female human, how about the word MOTHERLAND, MOTHERSHIP, does it mean this is humanwisdom is human.

Motherland and Mothership is not the same nor are they used as personifications. They are used to represent (SOURCE).

Lione D' ea: The translation you have is wrong borther

Proverbs 8:22-23 is in fact showing that the speaker is saying he was created. You've used the Strong's Concordance to try and substantiate your claims but when I use it you cry foul. You can't have your cake and eat it too. Strong's is most definitely showing that the person speaking is saying he is created. I only listed a couple of translations including the Strong's to prove a point but those aren't all the translations. There are plenty more.

This is how Strong's, a lexicon you've used in this thread, renders the verse.
Proverbs 8:22 The lord created me the head of his ways for his works.
The Lord created me the head of his ways for his works.

G2936 ????? - Strong's Greek Lexicon
to fabricate, i.e. found (form originally)

 

[Daviso452]

Good claim ,
Adam and all the Messangers of God , knew God as ONE ,your Torah did not claim that God is two , how they became three !!!!

Jesus (pbuh) never said worship me , on contrary He said worship God .
if he was God , he would ask his followers to obey him as they worship God

editors (authors) or translators of the orginal Gospel of Jesus (phub) which claim this lies .

The trinity represent God as a whole. God the father is the one up in heaven. God the son is Jesus and in human form. God the holy spirit is the part of your soul from God that gives you your moral compass.

Some people might find it odd for an atheist to say what I just said, but then again, I am still accomplishing my goal. Eliminating ignorance by spreading knowledge.

 

[LioneDea]

Yes. But no instructions were given to Mary or to anyone else to call the child's name "Immanuel".

Lione D’ ea: Wrong, Let us read again Matthew 1:20-23 it say’s:
But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.
21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.
22 Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying,
23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

Lione D’ ea: The definition of Christ is Immanuel meaning it is include in the name, like this…seems to us, before we named our parents would name them, it possesses asense, then we named, As it happened, the name Immanuel is definition of Christ, you get a wrong perception there brother.

Look, the scriptures weren't all written at the same time. Matthew, Mark, Luke and John were written at different times and for specific audiences. The book of Mark, the earliest of the four gospels, does not contain the "virgin birth" narrative. The reason why is this concept was not taught. By far the account in Matthew and Luke would be and is seen as an extraordinary event but it's curious as to Why the writer of Mark was oblivious to such a supernatural event. We know for a FACT that the writers of Matthew and Luke drew most of what they wrote in their gospels from Mark. Matthew and Luke saw fit to embellish their accounts for the audiences they were delivering their message to.

Lione D’ ea: Wrong, because the four gospel writers have their own gifts, like Matthew's great to count, Luke does not know how to count, but being doctors, we prove that Luke was a doctor in Colossians 4:14 says
“Luke, the beloved physician, and Demas, greet you.”
Lione D’ ea: mean that, really the profession of Luke was not with Matthew, and Matthew isLuke, Luke If not I written in Matthew 1:20-23, Matthew I do not like Luke was writing to 2:21 say:
“And when eight days were accomplished for the circumcising of the child, his name was called JESUS, which was so named of the angel before he was conceived in the womb.”
Lione D’ ea: Luke willing it, clever being a doctor, so he spelled it believes he can circumcising the child on the eighth day, but Matthew was told it, he might tell you, not that, because he knows write and count, he did not have consciousness being doctor, the one factor is their ability why it's not written.

Even if we assume for the sake of argument that the event did happen we know it has nothing to do with the prophecy in Isaiah. Contextually it doesn't fit because Christians are not observing the WHOLE situation of Isaiah or more specifically the situation of Israel during that time.
I'm not sure how many times one can say this but as I've said...the prophecy in Isaiah 7:14 states the young woman was already with child. The be "with child" means to (be pregnant) and not become pregnant. I've given you the Jewish translation of that verse along with a few Christian translations. The primary use of the word (almah) in your scripture denotes a young woman or maiden. Contextually this fits concerning Isaiah.

Lione D’ ea: Brother wrong you said "with child" means she pregnant already, the cited did not said "with children" meaning plural form, the referring to a verse the child is conceived in her future, also correct translation you have saying:

“Therefore, the Lord, of His own, shall give you a sign; behold, the young woman is with child, and she shall bear a son, and she shall call his name Immanuel.”

Lione D’ ea: So the verse not told as “ with children” it say’s “with child” that she shall bear, you did not get what the verse tells yu brother.

The instruction at Matthew and Luke was to call the child Yeshua not Immanuel. Now, I never said "he" was female. I've given you what is meant in Proverbs 8.



This is completely wrong. You don't know enough about the Hebrew language nor the Greek to make such a claim. The word "almah" means (young woman) because it was assumed a young woman of marriageable age was a virgin. When they translated the word into Greek it is rendered as "parthenos" which means virgin. That's how the Septuagint rendered it but the Hebrew word is not strict in that definition like the word (bethulah) is. Parthenos focuses on virginity. Almah doesn't focus on virginity like the word Bethula. This is why one can be an "almah" but not be a virgin. One can even be a virgin but not be an "almah".

“Virgin” or “Young Woman”? Isa 7:14 | Speaking of Scripture: Conversation about the word of God in the life and mission of the Church
"It turns out it’s more complicated than that. The original Hebrew of Isaiah 7:14 uses the word almah, which really does mean “young woman” rather than “virgin.” On the other hand, the Septuagint version of Isaiah, the Greek translation that was used by Jews for a couple centuries before the birth of Christ, uses the more specific parthenos, which does mean virgin. At that time an unmarried Jewish almah would be assumed to be a parthenos, so the Septuagint translation was completely reasonable."

CARM, an trinitarian apologetic site, confirms the above --> (Isaiah 7:14, in Hebrew means maiden, not virgin. Therefore, it is not a prophecy. | Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry)

Lione D’ ea: Let us read what is the Hebrew word of Virgin?
Original Word: עַלְמָה
Transliteration: almah
Phonetic Spelling: (al-maw')
Short Definition: maidens

Strong’s Exhaustive Concordance:
Word Origin
fem. of elem
Definition
a young woman, a virgin
NASB Word Usage
girl (1), maid (1), maiden (1), maidens (3), virgin (1).
Word Origin
fem. of elem
Definition
a young woman, a virgin
NASB Word Usage
girl (1), maid (1), maiden (1), maidens (3), virgin (1).
damsel, maid, virgin
Feminine of elem; a lass (as veiled or private) -- damsel, maid, virgin.
see HEBREW elem
Lione D’ ea: In Greek the word Virgin?
parthenos: a maiden, a virgin
Original Word: παρθένος, ου, ὁ, ἡ
Original Word: παρθένος, ου, ὁ, ἡ
Transliteration: parthenos
Phonetic Spelling: (par-then'-os)
Short Definition: a virgin
Definition: a maiden, virgin; extended to men who have not known women.
Stong’s Exhaustive Concordance:
3933 parthénos – properly, a virgin; a woman who has never had sexual relations; a female (virgin), beyond puberty but not yet married; (figuratively) believers when they are pure (chaste), i.e. faithful to Christ their heavenly Bridegroom
Word Origin
of uncertain origin
Definition
a maiden, a virgin
NASB Word Usage
chaste (1), virgin (9), virgin's (1), virgins (4).
virgin.
Of unknown origin; a maiden; by implication, an unmarried daughter -- virgin.

Lione D’ ea: What you find brothers, the Hebrew word is different in terms of Greek and others in the English language, in a time they know the word VIRGIN, in I think not, but they know what this means, ie its the woman in Isaiah 7:14 was a virgin before sheconceive, of course God chooses the virgin, virgin worthless if not chosen by God.

continue:

 

[LioneDea]

Hebrews 1:8 is FALSE. It's an interpolation. The earliest known manuscripts is different. I thought you would have quoted from it strictly since you boast it as ("the signature of God" and "the original Bible".) instead you're quoting from the KJV which we know is far from being consistent with the Codex Sinaiticus (earliest known bible).

Hebrews 1:8 (Codex Sinaiticus)
But with respect to the Son: Thy throne, O God, is forever and ever; and: A scepter of rectitude is the scepter of thy kingdom.

Even in the KJV (interpolated version) it means nothing considering verse 1:9 would be saying "God" has a god. This is another example of where unknown authors of these scriptures and letters use OT scripture to convey "their" point to a specific audience. Those verses have nothing to do with Yeshua. They were lifted from Psalms 45:7-8 and the context is for an Earthly king of that day and time. It wasn't a prophecy nor was it something "God" said to Yeshua.

Tehillim - Chapter 45 - Tanakh Online - Torah - Bible
Your throne, O judge, [will exist] forever and ever; the scepter of equity is the scepter of your kingdom. You loved righteousness and you hated wickedness; therefore God, your God, anointed you with oil of joy from among your peers.

NOTE: Elohiym is not exclusive to Yahweh. It can be used for men and angels. It can mean god, judge, goddess, godly. -->(Strong's Hebrew: 430. ???????? (elohim) -- God, god) also see Psalms 82:6 (which Yeshua quoted from).

Lione D’ ea: Let us find out who says: in Hebrew 1:4-6,8-9 Codex Sinaiticus
Transcript:

4 having become so much superior to angels as the name which he has inherited is more excellent than they.
5 For to which of the angels said he at any time: Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? and again: I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?
6 And when he shall have brought again the first begotten into the world, he says: And let all the angels of God worship him.
8 But with respect to the Son: Thy throne, O God, is forever and ever; and: A scepter of rectitude is the scepter of thy kingdom.
9 therefore, O God, thy God has anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
Lione D’ ea: God is saying, you did not read the whole scripture brother.

YES. Not only did I give you a commentary from a Christian site that backs up my claim but I gave you the definition of "personified".



Motherland and Mothership is not the same nor are they used as personifications. They are used to represent (SOURCE).

Lione D’ ea: Wrong speaking of personified, personified is not exclusive denoting only for human neither a male or female, also it can denote in something, that’s why we represent not only human, like in Proverbs 8:1-3 the word Her nor She is denoting in the word wisdom, the word wisdom is not a human, how come the word wisdom is human, for example I represent my motherland, she is known in best country in the world, does that mean in literal aspect my country is a female because I personified Her as SHE?

Proverbs 8:22-23 is in fact showing that the speaker is saying he was created. You've used the Strong's Concordance to try and substantiate your claims but when I use it you cry foul. You can't have your cake and eat it too. Strong's is most definitely showing that the person speaking is saying he is created. I only listed a couple of translations including the Strong's to prove a point but those aren't all the translations. There are plenty more.

This is how Strong's, a lexicon you've used in this thread, renders the verse.
Proverbs 8:22 The lord created me the head of his ways for his works.
The Lord created me the head of his ways for his works.

G2936 ????? - Strong's Greek Lexicon
to fabricate, i.e. found (form originally)

Lione D' ea: You can't identify the context and text what it express if your translation you have is only one...because there is comparison which is the best to translate and you can acquainted what is the error there, there are errors in the context and text in Bible that we have now that is fact, now if there is doubt about the translation, first you must read the original Bible... (03-13-2012, 08:30 AM)

Lione D’ ea: That’s why I’ve said before there are errors in the context and text in the Bible, Like in friut, for there is the rotten fruit on the other side, our only do is remove it and eat it away the rotten, like as we do in the Bible, because wrong is wrong we not to acknowledge that, if we investigate the old Bible, the written is so:

כב יְהוָה--קָנָנִי, רֵאשִׁית דַּרְכּוֹ: קֶדֶם מִפְעָלָיו מֵאָז.
Lione D’ ea: קָ֭נָנִ (qā•nā•nî) What is qā•nā•nî means in Bible Dictionary of old hebrew language:
qanah: to get, acquire
Original Word: קָנָה
Transliteration: qanah
Phonetic Spelling: (kaw-naw')
Short Definition: buy
Stron’s Exhaustive Concordance:
Word Origin
a prim. root
Definition
to get, acquire
NASB Word Usage
acquire (6), acquired (1), acquires (2), bought (20), buy (23), buyer (4), buying (2), buys (1), formed (1), gain acquisition (1), gained (1), get (3), gets (1), gotten (1), owner (1), possessed (1), possessor (2), purchased (3), purchaser (3), recover (1), redeemed (1), sold (1), surely buy (2).

Lione D’ ea: There is no single word create nor created there brother, the right term of the translation is “POSSESSED” meaning the Father and Son was in one being at that Moment, John is right in (John 1:18) The Son was in the Bossom of the Father at that moment, and what the Father do in Psalms 2:7 it read:
“I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.”

Lione D’ ea: Father beget His Son, the only begotten Son mention in whole Bible is Jesus Christ, not the angles nor cherubs to testify in Hebrews 1:5 and forward:
For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?
6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.
Lione D’ ea: Therefore it is not angels nor man mention in Proverbs 8:22 it is the Son of God, the only begotten Son of God.


(end.)

 

[LioneDea]

"Did Jesus say he was God??? "

(12-09-2011, 10:15 AM)
Don't get too caught up into Muffled's rhetoric. What he attempted to do was troll out a whole bunch of biblical verses with no reasoning behind why he did it. Then when read in context the chapters that these come from refute him every single time. Not only is none of what he produced "proof" but it wasn't even "overwhelming" as he claims. If it were then this thread would have ended long ago but as you can see, and you are just one of many newbies to the forum and this thread, this particular thread had been active for 4 and a half years.

Question: Where in the bible verses we can read did Jesus Christ said: I'm not God?

(end.)

 

[Daviso452]

Question: Where in the bible verses we can read did Jesus Christ said: I'm not God?

Dude, I seriously don't know what the ***** you're saying. This post I am quoting is one of the only things from you I understand. What's up with you quoting yourself?

Anyway, in response to this quote, it does not matter if Christ doesn't say he isn't god (though if he did it would matter), but what truly matters is if he said that he is God. If Jesus never said he wasn't god, that doesn't mean that he was. However, if he never said he was, then we have no reason to think he is.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

Lione D’ ea: Wrong, Let us read again Matthew 1:20-23 it say’s:
But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.
21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.
22 Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying,

Like I said, there was NO instruction from the angel to call the child "Immanuel". His mother nor anyone else never called him by that name. The writer of Matthew simply tried to connect a prophecy for someone else to Yeshua. This was not the first time that writer did this.

23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

This is the (Writer's) interpretation of and OT scripture that, as I have shown, has absolutely nothing to do with Yeshua as the context has everything to do with the state of Israel during a time of war and pending war.

Lione D’ ea: The definition of Christ is Immanuel meaning it is include in the name, like this…seems to us, before we named our parents would name them, it possesses asense, then we named, As it happened, the name Immanuel is definition of Christ, you get a wrong perception there brother.

Wrong. You can not show this with your scripture. Christ is the Greek title from Messiah which simply means "Anointed One"

--> (web link) Strong's Greek: 5547. ??????? (Christos) -- the Anointed One, Messiah, Christ

I don't even have to post the definition. Let's just say.."Immanuel" is not one of them.

Lione D’ ea: Brother wrong you said "with child" means she pregnant already, the cited did not said "with children" meaning plural form, the referring to a verse the child is conceived in her future, also correct translation you have saying:

This is too funny. To be with child is to be pregnant. From Isaiah's perspective it was a prophecy that the young woman was pregnant and would give birth to a male and not a female.

Since you don't know what ("With Child") means I'll help you out.

--> (web link) What does with child mean
"A person who is 'with child' is expecting a baby. It means pregnant."


http://wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn
Adjective

• S: (adj) big, enceinte, expectant, gravid, great, large, heavy, with child (in an advanced stage of pregnancy) "was big with child"; "was great with child"

So we now know for a fact that each of the scriptures from Jewish and Christian translators got it right by stating the young girl was already pregnant and would give birth to a male.

Lione D’ ea: So the verse not told as “ with children” it say’s “with child” that she shall bear, you did not get what the verse tells yu brother.

If you don't know and understand the context then it is "you" who doesn't get it. The Hebrew word there is (hereh) which simply means pregnant. It's used 16 times in the OT and all of them meaning the woman IS pregnant. (hereh) meant the young woman was already pregnant. See that is what happens when you rely solely on the KJV and translations via the Septuagaint.

Lione D’ ea: Let us read what is the Hebrew word of Virgin?
Original Word: עַלְמָה
Transliteration: almah
Phonetic Spelling: (al-maw')
Short Definition: maidens

Strong’s Exhaustive Concordance:
Word Origin
fem. of elem
Definition
a young woman, a virgin
NASB Word Usage
girl (1), maid (1), maiden (1), maidens (3), virgin (1).
Word Origin
fem. of elem
Definition
a young woman, a virgin
NASB Word Usage
girl (1), maid (1), maiden (1), maidens (3), virgin (1).
damsel, maid, virgin
Feminine of elem; a lass (as veiled or private) -- damsel, maid, virgin.
see HEBREW elem
Lione D’ ea: In Greek the word Virgin?
parthenos: a maiden, a virgin
Original Word: παρθένος, ου, ὁ, ἡ
Original Word: παρθένος, ου, ὁ, ἡ
Transliteration: parthenos
Phonetic Spelling: (par-then'-os)

You're confirming what I already said. See how at the bottom there they have (parthenos)? Once the Septuagaint rendered the Hebrew word as parthenos and then that gets rendered to English you have no choice but to assume the Isaiah 7:14 meant (virgin) but when you go to the Hebrew and render it in English it becomes quite clear, along with the context of Isaiah, that it's not talking about a virgin rather it's talking about a young women that was already pregnant.

Lione D’ ea: What you find brothers, the Hebrew word is different in terms of Greek and others in the English language, in a time they know the word VIRGIN, in I think not, but they know what this means, ie its the woman in Isaiah 7:14 was a virgin before sheconceive, of course God chooses the virgin, virgin worthless if not chosen by God.

I've already corrected your misunderstanding. It's as though you have on blinders. I'm not addressing your second post simply because Proverbs has nothing to do with Yeshua. The beginning of the book tells you right off the cuff that it is the (Proverbs of Solomon). It's not "God" talking to Yeshua nor is it Yeshua speaking in Proverbs. I will say this though, it, in context, is stating "God" (created) him...whomever the speaker is. We see this at Genesis 14:22.

NIV (Quoted by many trinitarians)
http://bible.cc/genesis/14-19.htm
and he blessed Abram, saying, "Blessed be Abram by God Most High, Creator of heaven and earth

See these other Bibles as well (NLV, God's Word 1995, MSG, NCV, AMP, HCSB, NIRV, GNT, CEV,). They all render the word as (creator, created, made. If that's not good enough then I'd suggest reading it from two known Trinitarian bibles.

Douay Rheims Bible
http://www.drbo.org/chapter/01014.htm

Good News Translation Catholic Edition
http://www.just1word.com/bible/verse/genesis_14?version=gntce

 

[LioneDea]

Like I said, there was NO instruction from the angel to call the child "Immanuel". His mother nor anyone else never called him by that name. The writer of Matthew simply tried to connect a prophecy for someone else to Yeshua. This was not the first time that writer did this.

Lione D’ ea: FALSE, because there says in Matthew1:20 and forward:

But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.

21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS:

Lione D’ ea: The angel is speaking here in this verse saying: “thou shalt call his name JESUS”, What name is given to Christ, the name of Jesus that meaning is Immanuel, what does this indicate to us, the prediction written by the prophet Isaiah had occurred here in this instance, the fact that said it to 22-23 Read:

Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying,

23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us. (King James Version)

Lione D’ ea: The call is mentioned in the 22-23 is prediction, not told in verse: "it"name shall be called, it said, the name shall be called "they", who they, the angel said to Joseph, who also said Joseph said to Maria that says:


“But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.

21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS:” (King James Version)

Lione D’ ea: That said those predictions, the word "they", because Joseph and Mary to name the child Emmanuel meaning Jesus who said the angel to Joseph, not that this interpretation of Matthew, because Matthew written this before, go through a process he held that to be Apostles, first in Matthew 9:9 is says:

“And as Jesus passed forth from thence, he saw a man, named Matthew, sitting at the receipt of custom: and he saith unto him, Follow me. And he arose, and followed him.” (King James Version)

Lione D’ ea: Before he turned to be apostles of Christ were first called him, so when he calledShe writes the interpretation of Emmanuel, anyone who interpret him, because there you said:

The writer of Matthew simply tried to connect a prophecy for someone else to Yeshua. This was not the first time that writer did this.

, Matthew is not the one who interpreted when he wrote "God with us", anyone who interpret it to him, in John 18:19-21 it says:

“The high priest then asked Jesus of his disciples, and of his doctrine.

20 Jesus answered him, I spake openly to the world; I ever taught in the synagogue, and in the temple, whither the Jews always resort; and in secret have I said nothing.

21 Why askest thou me? ask them which heard me, what I have said unto them: behold, they know what I said.” (King James Version)

Lione D’ ea: The twelve disciples of Christ one here that Matthew told him about his birth, he taught it to Matthew, says that in paragraph 20, he is teaching in their synagogues,and the temple with his disciples always afford, he not spoke fully the secret teachings of Christ, so we not doubting in scriptures because they heard him the things he taught, the definition of the Apostle had heard, seen, touched, I John 1:1-4 Read:

“That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;

2 (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us

3 That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.

4 And these things write we unto you, that your joy may be full.” (King James Version)

Lione D’ ea: So was Matthew did not interpret but Christ, Christ is the Teaching of the Bible, the fact of John 1:1, says:

“In the beginning was the Word,”

Lione D’ ea: What is Word in Greek:

Strong’s Concordance:
logos: a word (as embodying an idea), a statement, a speech
Original Word: λόγος, ου, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: logos
Phonetic Spelling: (log'-os)
Short Definition: a word, speech, divine utterance, analogy
Definition: a word, speech, divine utterance, analogy.


3056 lógos (from 3004 /légō, "speaking to a conclusion") – a word, being the expression of athought; a saying. 3056 /lógos ("word") is preeminently used of Christ (Jn 1:1), expressing thethoughts of the Father through the Spirit.
[3056 (lógos) is a common term (used 330 times in the NT) with regards to a person sharing a message (discourse, "communication-speech"). 3056 (lógos) is a broad term meaning "reasoning expressed by words."]
Strong’s Exhaustive Concordance:
a word, the Word

From lego; something said (including the thought); by implication, a topic (subject of discourse), also reasoning (the mental faculty) or motive; by extension, a computation; specially, (with the article in John) the Divine Expression (i.e. Christ) -- account, cause, communication, X concerning, doctrine, fame, X have to do, intent, matter, mouth, preaching, question, reason, + reckon, remove, say(-ing), shew, X speaker, speech, talk, thing, + none of these things move me, tidings, treatise, utterance, word, work.

Lione D’ ea: I squezz a little juice in this paragraph brother, the word Word in Greek are logos in translations is Reason to interpret the doctrine, so was Matthew who did not interpret, but the doctrine of disciples which with them, so Matthew's did not tried to connect a prophecy, I opposed the brother said, because false premise that the Bible, for example a false premise you said about in Isaiah 7:14

 

[LioneDea]

This is too funny. To be with child is to be pregnant. From Isaiah's perspective it was a prophecy that the young woman was pregnant and would give birth to a male and not a female.

Since you don't know what ("With Child") means I'll help you out.

--> (web link) "http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_does_with_child_mean"][/COLOR]What does with child mean
"A person who is 'with child' is expecting a baby. It means pregnant."


WordNet Search - 3.1
Adjective

• S: (adj) big, enceinte, expectant, gravid, great, large, heavy, with child (in an advanced stage of pregnancy) "was big with child"; "was great with child"

So we now know for a fact that each of the scriptures from Jewish and Christian translators got it right by stating the young girl was already pregnant and would give birth to a male.




If you don't know and understand the context then it is "you" who doesn't get it. The Hebrew word there is (hereh) which simply means pregnant. It's used 16 times in the OT and all of them meaning the woman IS pregnant. (hereh) meant the young woman was already pregnant. See that is what happens when you rely solely on the KJV and translations via the Septuagaint.




You're confirming what I already said. See how at the bottom there they have (parthenos)? Once the Septuagaint rendered the Hebrew word as parthenos and then that gets rendered to English you have no choice but to assume the Isaiah 7:14 meant (virgin) but when you go to the Hebrew and render it in English it becomes quite clear, along with the context of Isaiah, that it's not talking about a virgin rather it's talking about a young women that was already pregnant.

Lione D’ ea: Given to this source: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_does_with_child_mean%22[/COLOR]]What does with child mean, you're wrong in your statement immediately brother, because the said: What does it mean to be the seventh child of the sevenh child, What does it mean the child support follows the child, What does child born in wedlock mean, What does it mean when a child looks at you ugly, What does 'father her child' mean, given here even the least bit does not enter, yet the young man well, Dad is written,in Isaiah 7:14 the young woman mentioned, even mother's maiden not only ever mentioned, so what if seven children are not mentioned the two children in the paragraph, how you have verified again it that you said:

Since you don't know what ("With Child") means I'll help you out.

--> (web link) What does with child mean
"A person who is 'with child' is expecting a baby. It means pregnant."


WordNet Search - 3.1
Adjective
• S: (adj) big, enceinte, expectant, gravid, great, large, heavy, with child (in an advanced stage of pregnancy) "was big with child"; "was great with child"

So we now know for a fact that each of the scriptures from Jewish and Christian translators got it right by stating the young girl was already pregnant and would give birth to a male.
NIV (Quoted by many trinitarians)
Genesis 14:19 and he blessed Abram, saying, "Blessed be Abram by God Most High, Creator of heaven and earth.
and he blessed Abram, saying, "Blessed be Abram by God Most High, Creator of heaven and earth

See these other Bibles as well (NLV, God's Word 1995, MSG, NCV, AMP, HCSB, NIRV, GNT, CEV,). They all render the word as (creator, created, made. If that's not good enough then I'd suggest reading it from two known Trinitarian bibles.

Douay Rheims Bible
Douay-Rheims Catholic Bible, Book Of Genesis Chapter 14

Good News Translation Catholic Edition
http://www.just1word.com/bible/verse...?version=gntce

Lione D' ea: The source to contradict you just brothers, the worse you remove your source edited shovel which I accepted it, he gets too self-confident that he great in grammar,good grammar of how do you view your translations provided you do not understand, then you accuse the King James Version of the so-so, in your accusations to the book, this is prophecy in Isaiah 29:11-13 he says the correspondent:

And the vision of all is become unto you as the words of a book that is sealed, which men deliver to one that is learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I cannot; for it is sealed:

12 And the book is delivered to him that is not learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I am not learned.

13 Wherefore the Lord said, Forasmuch as this people draw near me with their mouth, and with their lips do honour me, but have removed their heart far from me, and their fear toward me is taught by the precept of men: (King James Version)


Lione D’ ea: The book of Isaiah is prophecy, given the people learned that they say, you read "it" (the book of Isaiah), says the wise, I do not read because it was sealed, excuse the wise, and people gave those who can not read what he said, I can not read, the one which cannot read admit that he had not learned to read, than wise learned the loophole sealed, you know how to read you're not even admit that in Isaiah 7:14 before the young woman to concieve she is virginthen, you did not admit the truth because it was sealed, the mean sealed is hardened heart for the truth does not shine because your doctrine is from mean and not in God,your to much believe in yourself, Like a cup filled you can not put, so that says Christ to haughty
“For whosoever exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.” (King James Version)


Lione D’ ea: So I said, I see nothing wrong with translation provided in Isaiah, so I do not stumble over, like you said:

This is the (Writer's) interpretation of and OT scripture that, as I have shown, has absolutely nothing to do with Yeshua as the context has everything to do with the state of Israel during a time of war and pending war.



Wrong. You can not show this with your scripture. Christ is the Greek title from Messiah which simply means "Anointed One"

--> (web link) Strong's Greek: 5547. ??????? (Christos) -- the Anointed One, Messiah, Christ

I don't even have to post the definition. Let's just say.."Immanuel" is not one of them.


I've already corrected your misunderstanding. It's as though you have on blinders. I'm not addressing your second post simply because Proverbs has nothing to do with Yeshua. The beginning of the book tells you right off the cuff that it is the (Proverbs of Solomon). It's not "God" talking to Yeshua nor is it Yeshua speaking in Proverbs.

Lione D’ ea: I have no objection to this, why I said Christ, because it defines exactly what Jesus, jesus On the notion as he is man and not God, I opposed it, because that's not Jesus the Emmaneul, because the Apostle Paul says in II Corinthians 11:4 says:

“For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.”
Lione D’ ea: So Yeshua you are mention is not man, He is God meaning, Emmanuel Which being interpreted is, God with us, not Man with us, how do you untold man He was, He existed without beginning according to Proverbs 8:23, hopefully, before you speak:

I've already corrected your misunderstanding. It's as though you have on blinders

,

Lione D' ea: can you prove that is Solomon, what is your basis, if you prove that is Solomon I admit my lose, but if you cannot testify do you accept you lose?


(end.)

 

[LioneDea]

Dude, I seriously don't know what the ***** you're saying. This post I am quoting is one of the only things from you I understand. What's up with you quoting yourself?

Anyway, in response to this quote, it does not matter if Christ doesn't say he isn't god (though if he did it would matter), but what truly matters is if he said that he is God. If Jesus never said he wasn't god, that doesn't mean that he was. However, if he never said he was, then we have no reason to think he is.

Lione D' ea: Major issue in the competition which Christ spoke, I am God, than mentioned, I'm not God, so where do they find Christ said, I have a one verse that proves the exception of John 8:58 that says, I am God .



(end.)

 

[Dirty Penguin]

Lione D’ ea: FALSE, because there says in Matthew1:20 and forward:

But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.

21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS:

Lione D’ ea: The angel is speaking here in this verse saying: “thou shalt call his name JESUS”, What name is given to Christ, the name of Jesus that meaning is Immanuel, what does this indicate to us, the prediction written by the prophet Isaiah had occurred here in this instance

I don't even understand why we're debating over the meaning of these names. The meaning of Immanuel does not mean Messiah nor does it mean Yeshua and vice-versa. I'm not sure where you're getting this idea but it's not in any Lexicon or any Grammar nor is it scriptural. "You shall call his name Yeshua." is what it says. The writer of Matthew is wrong in his interpretation of the OT.

Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying,

23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us. (King James Version)

You can repeat this all you like but I've already shown that this is mistranslated and misinterpreted in Matthew.


oremus Bible Browser
Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign. Look, the young woman is with child and shall bear a son, and shall name him Immanuel.


Isaiah 7:14 (Yeshayahu - Chapter 7 - Tanakh Online - Torah - Bible)
Therefore, the Lord, of His own, shall give you a sign; behold, the young woman is with child, and she shall bear a son, and she shall call his name Immanuel.

So, once again, I've given you a Christian translation and the Jewish translation and you continue ignore them. They're consistent because the translation is far batter than the KJV (Septuagaint).

Lione D’ ea: Given to this source: (http://[color="red"/What does with child mean), you're wrong in your statement immediately brother,

Come on now. That's exactly what ("with child") means.

With child
"euphemism for pregnant"

With | Define With at Dictionary.com
Idioms
with child, pregnant.

Lione D' ea: can you prove that is Solomon, what is your basis, if you prove that is Solomon I admit my lose, but if you cannot testify do you accept you lose?

Proverbs 1:1
The proverbs of Solomon the son of David, king of Israel;

We find the same in Revelation. We know it's the Revelation of Yeshua which Yahweh gave to him to show John through the angel. (Rev. 1:1)

 

[Daviso452]

Lione D' ea: Major issue in the competition which Christ spoke, I am God, than mentioned, I'm not God, so where do they find Christ said, I have a one verse that proves the exception of John 8:58 that says, I am God .

(end.)

I still don't understand a word you're saying.

EDIT: 666 posts! I am the devil until I make another post!