Did Jesus say he was God???

[Nada]

Now, if you can provide verses that the Lord Jesus Christ is/was a created being of God then show them and please stop preaching.

Proverbs 8:22,23.
22“The Lord brought me forth as the first of his works,before his deeds of old;
23I was formed long ages ago,


7 In verse 22, wisdom says: “Jehovah himself produced me as the beginning of his way, the earliest of his achievements of long ago.” More than just wisdom must be involved here, for that quality never was “produced.” It never began to exist because Jehovah has always existed and he has always been wise. (Psalm 90:2) God’s Son, however, was “the firstborn of all creation.” He was produced, or created; he was the earliest of all of Jehovah’s achievements. (Colossians 1:15) The Son existed before the earth and the heavens, as described in Proverbs. And as the Word, God’s own Spokesman, he was the perfect expression of Jehovah’s wisdom.

This passage cannot be speaking merely about divine wisdom or wisdom in the abstract. Why not? Because the wisdom that is here described was “produced,” or created, as the beginning of Jehovah’s way. Jehovah God has always existed and has always been wise. (Psalm 90:1, 2) His wisdom had no beginning; it was neither created nor produced. It was not “brought forth as with labor pains.” Furthermore, this wisdom is said to speak and act, representing a person.—Proverbs 8:1.

 

[JM2C]

Without looking for post and arguing for days,all of this could be easily dismissed with two verses.

#1 James 1:13 When tempted, no one should say, "God is tempting me." For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone;

#2 Then Jesus was led by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil.

Conclusion
Jesus cannot be God for God cannot be tempted by evil as Gods Word says in James 1:13

By reading Matthew 4:1, we can clearly see that Jesus Christ was tempted by satan.

JESUS IS NOT GOD,ACCORDING TO GODS OWN WORD, IN THE HOLY SCRIPTURES.

Did He succumb to that temptation like Adam and Eve? No!

 

[Nada]

Wisdom personified. What is recorded concerning the Word in the Scriptures fits remarkably the description given at Proverbs 8:22-31. There wisdom is personified, represented as though able to speak and act. (Pr 8:1) Many professed Christian writers of the early centuries of the Common Era understood this section to refer symbolically to God’s Son in his prehuman state. In view of the texts already considered, there can be no denying that that Son was “produced” by Jehovah “as the beginning of his way, the earliest of his achievements of long ago,” nor that the Son was “beside [Jehovah] as a master worker” during earth’s creation, as described in these verses of Proverbs. It is true that in Hebrew, which assigns gender to its nouns (as do many other languages), the word for “wisdom” is always in the feminine gender. This would continue to be the case even though wisdom is personified and so would not rule out wisdom’s being used figuratively to represent God’s firstborn Son. The Greek word for “love” in the expression “God is love” (1Jo 4:8) is also in the feminine gender but that does not make God feminine. Solomon, the principal writer of Proverbs (Pr 1:1), applied the title qo·he′leth (congregator) to himself (Ec 1:1) and this word is also in the feminine gender.
Wisdom is manifest only by being expressed in some way. God’s own wisdom was expressed in creation (Pr 3:19, 20) but through his Son. (Compare 1Co 8:6.) So, too, God’s wise purpose involving mankind is made manifest through, and summed up in, his Son, Jesus Christ. Thus, the apostle could say that Christ represents “the power of God and the wisdom of God” and that Christ Jesus “has become to us wisdom from God, also righteousness and sanctification and release by ransom.”—1Co 1:24, 30; compare 1Co 2:7, 8; Pr 8:1, 10, 18-21.

 

[Nada]

Did He succumb to that temptation like Adam and Eve? No!

It matters not.He was still tempted.James 1:13 specifically says that God cannot be tempted.Jesus was tempted in Matthew 4:1.Tempted does not mean that one has to give in.

tempt: |tem(p)t| verb [ with obj. ]
entice or attempt to entice (someone) to do or acquire something that they find attractive but know to be wrong or not beneficial:


entice : entice |enˈtīs| verb [ with obj. ]
attract or tempt by offering pleasure or advantage:

WHERE DOES IT SAY THEY HAVE TO GIVE IN?

THAT CHOICE IS BASED ON YOU.TEMPTATION IS AN ACTION.GIVING IN TO THE TEMPTATION IS A REACTION.

YOU ARE INCORRECT.JESUS WAS TEMPTED.GOD CANNOT BE TEMPTED.JESUS IS NOT GOD.

 

[Nada]

Did He succumb to that temptation like Adam and Eve? No!

Gods Word is the truth and can never be proven wrong.To attempt to do so is going against the grain.No matter how you try to justify your cause, you will always be wrong.Thats why it speaks of teachings of demons in 1 Timothy 4:1,2.

However, the inspired word clearly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to misleading inspired statements and teachings of demons, 2 by means of the hypocrisy of men who speak lies, whose conscience is seared as with a branding iron.

Anything that is against the teachings of God are considered to be teachings of demons,for they do not originate with God or His Word.

When those who have been teaching, and also those who have been taught,absorb these false teachings for a very long time,they become weighed down in their minds with these false doctrines of men.Thats why it says,"by means of the hypocrisy of men who speak lies, whose conscience is seared as with a branding iron."

What happens when something is seared? It leaves a very distinctive mark that is almost impossible to remove.Thats how the minds of those who take in these teachings have become.
"whose conscience is seared as with a branding iron."

 

[JM2C]

It matters not.He was still tempted.James 1:13 specifically says that God cannot be tempted.Jesus was tempted in Matthew 4:1.Tempted does not mean that one has to give in.

tempt: |tem(p)t| verb [ with obj. ]
entice or attempt to entice (someone) to do or acquire something that they find attractive but know to be wrong or not beneficial:


entice : entice |enˈtīs| verb [ with obj. ]
attract or tempt by offering pleasure or advantage:

WHERE DOES IT SAY THEY HAVE TO GIVE IN?

THAT CHOICE IS BASED ON YOU.TEMPTATION IS AN ACTION.GIVING IN TO THE TEMPTATION IS A REACTION.

YOU ARE INCORRECT.JESUS WAS TEMPTED.GOD CANNOT BE TEMPTED.JESUS IS NOT GOD.

Like in Colossians 1:15-17 you intentionally left out verse 18 because in v18 it will say about Christ preeminence among all creations as the “firstborn of all creation”, not as first created being of God like your theology is teaching you, but preeminence among all creation.

This one you left out verses 14-15

Jas 1:14 but each one is tempted when, by his own evil desire, he is dragged away and enticed.
Jas 1:15 Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death.

When satan tempted the Lord Christ Jesus, He was not “dragged away and enticed” by His “own evil desire” to be tempted by satan, was He?

Therefore, He did not succumb to that temptation because He did not have that “evil desire –Matt 4:1-10”, to begin with.

 

[Nada]

Like in Colossians 1:15-17 you intentionally left out verse 18 because in v18 it will say about Christ preeminence among all creations as the “firstborn of all creation”, not as first created being of God like your theology is teaching you, but preeminence among all creation.

This one you left out verses 14-15


When satan tempted the Lord Christ Jesus, He was not “dragged away and enticed” by His “own evil desire” to be tempted by satan, was He?

Therefore, He did not succumb to that temptation because He did not have that “evil desire –Matt 4:1-10”, to begin with.

I didn't intentionally leave anything out.Your mind is a trip.You are accusing me of things I am not even guilty of.What you are doing is assuming.You should never do that.You are incorrect on this also.

When Jesus Christ was led by the spirit to be tempted by satan,Jesus already knew his mission and that satan would be doing these things.He was not oblivious to all of this.Jesus was a perfect being.Unlike Adam and Eve, who were new creations, and did not know of satan the devil,Jesus was fully aware of satan and his tactics.Jesus was led by the spirit to be tempted by satan as a witness to everyone.

READ THIS VERY CAREFULLY TO UNDERSTAND


Hebrews 4:15*For we do not have a high priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tested in all respects as we have, but without sin

So here we have Gods Word describing to us how Jesus Christ, even though being a perfect being,is able to understand what temptations we must undergo.This temptation was for a reason.Jesus did not go to be tempted because he had evil intensions.It is so he would know what we experience.
READ IT AGAIN SO YOU MAY UNDERSTAND.

Hebrews 4:15*For we do not have a high priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tested in all respects as we have, but without sin

 

[Nada]

So you see,Jesus Christ was tempted,not because he had evil intensions.It was so he could experience first hand how it is to be enticed as a human as we are.Thats why it says what it does in Hebrews 4:15*For we do not have a high priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tested in all respects as we have, but without sin.


Since Jesus has been tempted,and knows very well how we are tempted daily,he can properly serve us as our high priest and judge.Thats why it says this in the following passage.

16*Let us, then, approach the throne of undeserved kindness with freeness of speech, so that we may receive mercy and find undeserved kindness to help us at the right time.

So,Jesus is our high priest and understands what we go through.We pray to God through him.Jesus Christ is our mediator.1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus,

 

[Nada]

I didn't intentionally leave anything out.Your mind is a trip.You are accusing me of things I am not even guilty of.What you are doing is assuming.You should never do that.You are incorrect on this also.

When Jesus Christ was led by the spirit to be tempted by satan,Jesus already knew his mission and that satan would be doing these things.He was not oblivious to all of this.Jesus was a perfect being.Unlike Adam and Eve, who were new creations, and did not know of satan the devil,Jesus was fully aware of satan and his tactics.Jesus was led by the spirit to be tempted by satan as a witness to everyone.

READ THIS VERY CAREFULLY TO UNDERSTAND


Hebrews 4:15*For we do not have a high priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tested in all respects as we have, but without sin

So here we have Gods Word describing to us how Jesus Christ, even though being a perfect being,is able to understand what temptations we must undergo.This temptation was for a reason.Jesus did not go to be tempted because he had evil intensions.It is so he would know what we experience.
READ IT AGAIN SO YOU MAY UNDERSTAND.

Hebrews 4:15*For we do not have a high priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tested in all respects as we have, but without sin

You stated that I intentionally left out verse 18 of Colossians on purpose.I did no such thing.Im glad you brought it up though, because it further proves my point.If you notice in verse 15 it states that Jesus is the firstborn over all creation.

Ok...So it is telling us that Jesus is the first,over all creation right? That means he existed before all other things.

NOW

If we go to verse 18 it says, And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy.


Do you see how it says, "he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead" ?
THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT

What this is telling you is that Jesus is the first creation over everything,AND,Jesus is also the firstborn from the dead.

Well you might say thats impossible because there were others before Jesus that were brought back to life like the little girl ,Lazarus and others.Yes ,this is very true, BUT, Jesus was the one who did these things.Jesus resurrected these people back to life using Gods holy spirit.

When Jesus was risen, or resurrected back to life,it was God who did that.God personally resurrected Jesus back to life.That is why Jesus is called the " the firstborn from among the dead."
God did it personally..... After the end comes and all are resurrected back to life,it will not be God who does it.It will be Jesus Christ.

Jesus is the first and the last to be risen by God personally.

 

[JM2C]

Without looking for post and arguing for days,all of this could be easily dismissed with two verses.

#1 James 1:13 When tempted, no one should say, "God is tempting me." For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone;

#2 Then Jesus was led by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil.

Conclusion
Jesus cannot be God for God cannot be tempted by evil as Gods Word says in James 1:13

By reading Matthew 4:1, we can clearly see that Jesus Christ was tempted by satan.

JESUS IS NOT GOD,ACCORDING TO GODS OWN WORD, IN THE HOLY SCRIPTURES.

I see where you coming from. Of course, God cannot be tempted by satan but, the Jesus that I’m talking about is the human Jesus who was tempted in Matthew 4:1-10, you know the one in John 1:14 “and the Word became flesh” and this Word from John 1:1-2 “the Word was God” who created everything in John 1:3, Colossians 1:16-17, you know the one in Proverbs 8:22 the “Wisdom personified, the one who claims credit for everything that God created” -JM, you know the “Wisdom of God” in 1Cor 1:24.

So, where did it say that God created the Lord Jesus Christ, again?

Did He succumb to that temptation like Adam and Eve? No!

 

[JM2C]

You stated that I intentionally left out verse 18 of Colossians on purpose.I did no such thing.Im glad you brought it up though, because it further proves my point.If you notice in verse 15 it states that Jesus is the firstborn over all creation.

Ok...So it is telling us that Jesus is the first,over all creation right?

That means he existed before all other things.

And my answer to that is,

Col 1:15, the basic argument for the JW, INC and some semi-hybrid Christians.
Every time you people see the word “firstborn” your thoughts were always the first creation or first created being, or something that God created first.

Was Israel the first nation?

Ex 4:22 And thou shalt say unto Pharaoh, Thus saith the LORD, Israel is my son, even my firstborn:

When Moses said that Israel was God’s son, “even my firstborn”, Pharaoh was surprised because he was accustomed to be called the “son of the gods”, but for the whole people to be a “son or firstborn” of God was even more surprising.

Was Jacob the firstborn of Isaac? No! Esau was.

Firstborn means Col 1:18 “that in all things he/Christ might have the preeminence.” With all rights, privileges, of a firstborn, and not as the first created being of God from eternity like you are suggesting in Proverbs 8:22.

 

[JM2C]

If we go to verse 18 it says, And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy.

Do you see how it says, "he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead" ?
THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT

What this is telling you is that Jesus is the first creation over everything, AND,Jesus is also the firstborn from the dead.

Well you might say thats impossible because there were others before Jesus that were brought back to life like the little girl ,Lazarus and others.Yes ,this is very true, BUT, Jesus was the one who did these things.Jesus resurrected these people back to life using Gods holy spirit.

These people will die again physically. The meaning of the “firstborn from the dead” is the Lord Jesus was the first to be resurrected and will never die again. So, all those people, Christians, that died and will die in Christ, will never die again or suffer a 2nd death –Rev 20:6.

When Jesus was risen, or resurrected back to life,it was God who did that.God personally resurrected Jesus back to life.That is why Jesus is called the " the firstborn from among the dead."
God did it personally..... After the end comes and all are resurrected back to life,it will not be God who does it.It will be Jesus Christ.

On this one I cannot argue with you.

Jesus is the first and the last to be risen by God personally.

This just contradicted your statement above.

 

[outhouse]

Well jesus never said he was god, that was blasphemy to a Jew.

And the unknown authors were far removed from his actual life.

Sorry boys, its not there.

 

[metis]

Well jesus never said he was god, that was blasphemy to a Jew.

And the unknown authors were far removed from his actual life.

Sorry boys, its not there.

Even though I wouldn't put it in such emphatic terms, I agree that it is highly unlikely he did.

 

[Nada]

I see where you coming from. Of course, God cannot be tempted by satan but, the Jesus that I’m talking about is the human Jesus who was tempted in Matthew 4:1-10, you know the one in John 1:14 “and the Word became flesh” and this Word from John 1:1-2 “the Word was God” who created everything in John 1:3, Colossians 1:16-17, you know the one in Proverbs 8:22 the “Wisdom personified, the one who claims credit for everything that God created” -JM, you know the “Wisdom of God” in 1Cor 1:24.

So, where did it say that God created the Lord Jesus Christ, again?

Did He succumb to that temptation like Adam and Eve? No!

Oh,God said it in Colossians 1:15,16. 15 The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him.

Then Jesus himself says it in Proverbs 8:22-31.

Yes I know that Jesus did not give in to satan's temptations.I l already explained that to you in thorough detail.Now were back to where we were.

 

[outhouse]

Even though I wouldn't put it in such emphatic terms, I .

I did not expect a rational response lol

 

[Nada]

These people will die again physically. The meaning of the “firstborn from the dead” is the Lord Jesus was the first to be resurrected and will never die again. So, all those people, Christians, that died and will die in Christ, will never die again or suffer a 2nd death –Rev 20:6.


On this one I cannot argue with you.


This just contradicted your statement above.

I know the people that were resurrected by Jesus will die again physically.They were not risen to immortality.This was done as proof of Gods power and promise of the resurrection.

You are confusing what the true meaning of "firstborn from the dead" means with what you interpret it to mean with Rev 20:6. You are incorrect.

People that were resurrected in the 1st century and those that will be resurrected after the end time,will still have to live under Gods new arrangement during the 1,000 year reign.This is literally judgment day.This is the time when all will be put to the test and judged according to what they do during this time of peace on earth.After this period of 1,000 years is done,satan will be released from the abyss and he will; gather those who did not accept Gods new system.They will be with satan and this is when God will once and for all destroy the wicked along with satan the devil forever by tossing them in the symbolic eternal lake of fire.Rev 20:1-10

Jesus Christ is shown to be “the firstborn of all creation” as well as “the firstborn from the dead”—not merely most distinguished in relation to those created or those resurrected but the first one actually created and the first raised from the dead to endless life. (Col 1:15,*18; Re 1:5; 3:14) On earth he was the firstborn child of Mary and was presented at the temple in accordance with Jehovah’s law. (Lu 2:7, 22,*23) The apostle Paul speaks of the followers of Jesus Christ who have been enrolled in the heavens as “the congregation of the firstborn,” the first ones accepted by God as sons on the basis of their faith in Jesus’ sacrifice and the first of Christ’s followers to be resurrected with no need to die again.—Heb 12:23.

At Job 18:13 the expression “firstborn of death” is used to denote the most deadly of diseases.



Originally Posted by Bible Student View Post
When Jesus was risen, or resurrected back to life,it was God who did that.God personally resurrected Jesus back to life.That is why Jesus is called the " the firstborn from among the dead."
God did it personally..... After the end comes and all are resurrected back to life,it will not be God who does it.It will be Jesus Christ.

"On this one I cannot argue with you."

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bible Student View Post
Jesus is the first and the last to be risen by God personally.


"This just contradicted your statement above."

How so?

You just stated you cannot argue with that.If anything, you contradicted yourself.You agree with me about what I said, and then you say I contradicted myself.You contradict what you said in your above statements as well.

" These people will die again physically. The meaning of the “firstborn from the dead” is the Lord Jesus was the first to be resurrected and will never die again. So, all those people, Christians, that died and will die in Christ, will never die again or suffer a 2nd death –Rev 20:6."

 

[1robin]

I know the people that were resurrected by Jesus will die again physically.They were not risen to immortality.This was done as proof of Gods power and promise of the resurrection.

You are confusing what the true meaning of "firstborn from the dead" means with what you interpret it to mean with Rev 20:6. You are incorrect.

People that were resurrected in the 1st century and those that will be resurrected after the end time,will still have to live under Gods new arrangement during the 1,000 year reign.This is literally judgment day.This is the time when all will be put to the test and judged according to what they do during this time of peace on earth.After this period of 1,000 years is done,satan will be released from the abyss and he will; gather those who did not accept Gods new system.They will be with satan and this is when God will once and for all destroy the wicked along with satan the devil forever by tossing them in the symbolic eternal lake of fire.Rev 20:1-10

Jesus Christ is shown to be “the firstborn of all creation” as well as “the firstborn from the dead”—not merely most distinguished in relation to those created or those resurrected but the first one actually created and the first raised from the dead to endless life. (Col 1:15,*18; Re 1:5; 3:14) On earth he was the firstborn child of Mary and was presented at the temple in accordance with Jehovah’s law. (Lu 2:7, 22,*23) The apostle Paul speaks of the followers of Jesus Christ who have been enrolled in the heavens as “the congregation of the firstborn,” the first ones accepted by God as sons on the basis of their faith in Jesus’ sacrifice and the first of Christ’s followers to be resurrected with no need to die again.—Heb 12:23.

At Job 18:13 the expression “firstborn of death” is used to denote the most deadly of diseases.



Originally Posted by Bible Student View Post
When Jesus was risen, or resurrected back to life,it was God who did that.God personally resurrected Jesus back to life.That is why Jesus is called the " the firstborn from among the dead."
God did it personally..... After the end comes and all are resurrected back to life,it will not be God who does it.It will be Jesus Christ.

"On this one I cannot argue with you."

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bible Student View Post
Jesus is the first and the last to be risen by God personally.


"This just contradicted your statement above."

How so?

You just stated you cannot argue with that.If anything, you contradicted yourself.You agree with me about what I said, and then you say I contradicted myself.You contradict what you said in your above statements as well.

" These people will die again physically. The meaning of the “firstborn from the dead” is the Lord Jesus was the first to be resurrected and will never die again. So, all those people, Christians, that died and will die in Christ, will never die again or suffer a 2nd death –Rev 20:6."

The difference is between raised and resurrection. All others have been raised and will die again but only Christ was the first fruit of resurrection and will never dies again.

 

[1robin]

Like in Colossians 1:15-17 you intentionally left out verse 18 because in v18 it will say about Christ preeminence among all creations as the “firstborn of all creation”, not as first created being of God like your theology is teaching you, but preeminence among all creation.

This one you left out verses 14-15

Jas 1:14 but each one is tempted when, by his own evil desire, he is dragged away and enticed.
Jas 1:15 Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death.

When satan tempted the Lord Christ Jesus, He was not “dragged away and enticed” by His “own evil desire” to be tempted by satan, was He?

Therefore, He did not succumb to that temptation because He did not have that “evil desire –Matt 4:1-10”, to begin with.

To tempt is not to have necessarily tempted from the others point of view. I can temp someone to do something without their ever having the slightest desire to aqua see yet from my point of view they are as attempted as tempted can get but from there they never were so. It's like trying to tempt a cat into a pillow case. That is the only place on earth he has no desire to be. I tempted him to do it (but despite not even knowing why) he did not for a nanosecond agree with me.

 

[Nada]

The difference is between raised and resurrection. All others have been raised and will die again but only Christ was the first fruit of resurrection and will never dies again.

You are incorrect on saying theres a difference between raised and resurrection.

What does it say in Acts 2:32? "God has raised this Jesus to life, and we are all witnesses of it."

You are implying that all others were raised and Jesus was resurrected.So,according to your own logic,this contradicts what Gods Word is saying.
Gods Word says raised. Raised ,in fact,means resurrected.

THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE

Thesaurus
resurrect:
verb 1 we believe that Jesus was resurrected: raise from the dead, restore to life, revive.


Dictionary
resurrect: |ˌrezəˈrekt|
verb [ with obj. ]
restore (a dead person) to life: he was dead, but he was resurrected.

It means the exact same thing.......

Quoted from WOL
The Greek word a·na′sta·sis literally means “raising up; standing up.” It is used frequently in the Christian Greek Scriptures with reference to the resurrection of the dead.