Did Jesus say he was God???

[JM2C]

You are confusing what the true meaning of "firstborn from the dead" means with what you interpret it to mean with Rev 20:6. You are incorrect.

These people will die again physically. The meaning of the “firstborn from the dead” is the Lord Jesus was the first to be resurrected and will never die again. So, all those people, Christians, that died and will die in Christ, will never die again or suffer a 2nd death –Rev 20:6.

What is so confusing here? The dead in Christ will rise first as described in 1 Thessalonians 4:16 “and the dead in Christ will rise first” and Rev 20:4.

On which the Lord Jesus Christ said in,

Jn 5:28 “Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice
Jn 5:29 and come out—those who have done good will rise to live, and those who have done evil will rise to be condemned.

TWO RESURRECTIONS:

FIRST RESURRECTION “who have done good will rise to live” -John 5:29, 1 Thess 4:16, Rev 20:6, they will reign with Christ for a thousand years.

Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

And the 2nd resurrection, “those who have done evil will rise to be condemned” -John 5:29. They will be resurrected after one thousand years and judge -Rev 20:5, 20:11-12.

Now tell me who is confused here?

 

[JM2C]

People that were resurrected in the 1st century and those that will be resurrected after the end time, will still have to live under Gods new arrangement during the 1,000 year reign.

“resurrected in the 1st century?” where did you get this from?

This is literally judgment day.

This is the time when all will be put to the test and judged according to what they do during this time of peace on earth.

The dead righteous will rise first -1 Thess. 4:16, John 5:29, Rev 20:4, and will reign with Christ “and cometh not into judgment, but hath passed out of [the second, the spiritual] death [Rev 20:6] into life” –John 5:24 this verse is referring to the spiritual resurrection.

No more judgment for the righteous –John 5:24 unlike you were suggesting “This is literally judgment day”

Now, read and understand this:

The resurrection of the unrighteous described in John 5:29 “they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of Judgment” and Rev 20:4 “But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished.” and Rev 20:11-12, they, “SECOND RESURRECTION”, will be judge and not the “FIRST RESURRECTION”

 

[JM2C]

To tempt is not to have necessarily tempted from the others point of view. I can temp someone to do something without their ever having the slightest desire to aqua see yet from my point of view they are as attempted as tempted can get but from there they never were so. It's like trying to tempt a cat into a pillow case. That is the only place on earth he has no desire to be. I tempted him to do it (but despite not even knowing why) he did not for a nanosecond agree with me.

It matters not. He was still tempted. James 1:13 specifically says that God cannot be tempted. Jesus was tempted in Matthew 4:1.Tempted does not mean that one has to give in.

YOU ARE INCORRECT.JESUS WAS TEMPTED.GOD CANNOT BE TEMPTED.JESUS IS NOT GOD.

From here he was implying that Jesus cannot be God because He was tempted in Matthew 4:1-10.

And here was my response to him:

I see where you coming from. Of course, God cannot be tempted by satan but, the Jesus that I’m talking about is the human Jesus who was tempted in Matthew 4:1-10, you know the one in John 1:14 “and the Word became flesh” and this Word from John 1:1-2 “the Word was God” who created everything in John 1:3, Colossians 1:16-17, you know the one in Proverbs 8:22 the “Wisdom personified the one who claims credit for everything that God created” -JM, you know the “Wisdom of God” in 1Cor 1:24.

So, where did it say that God created the Lord Jesus Christ, again?

Did He succumb to that temptation like Adam and Eve? No!

 

[JM2C]

The unrigtheous

After this period of 1,000 years is done, satan will be released from the abyss and he will; gather those who did not accept Gods new system.

“God’s new system” where did you learned this thing?

After the release of satan –Rev 20:7, “He will go out to deceive the nations from every corner of the earth” –Rev 20:8. “And I saw them as they went up on the broad plain of the earth and surrounded God’s people and the beloved city” –Rev 20:9

Who are these God’s people? They cannot be those who were “FIRST RESURRECTED” in Rev 20:4 and John 5:29, and 1Thess. 4:16 because they were reigning with Christ already.

In 1Thessalonians Paul said,

1TH 4:17 Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord.

This verse, 1Thess 4:17, is after the first resurrection described in 1Th 4:16, Rev 20:4, John 5:29, or there are more than one “FIRST RESURRECTION” written in the bible.

Only one “first resurrection” in Rev 20:4 and 1Thess 4:17, and one “second resurrection” in Rev 20:11-12. Both these resurrections are written in John 5:29 and Daniel 12:2.

God’s people or “the saints” describe in Rev 20:9 were the same God’s people Paul was describing 1 Thess. 4:17 “then we who are alive and remain” here on earth, after the “FIRST RESURRECTION” in 1Thess 4:16, John 5:29, and Rev 20:4.

Between 1Thess 4:16 and 1Thess 4:17 is Rev 20:4 the “Thousand Years”.

Was Paul expecting this “FIRST RESURRECTION” that it would happen in his lifetime and after that the “The Thousand Years” will begin? Or did he know that the “Rapture” in 1Thess 4:17 will take place after the “Thousand Years”?

The “Thousand Years” could be happening or done already as we speak since no one can know if God did the “FIRST RESURRECTION” already. With all the deceiving that is happening every day “the abomination that causes desolation –Matthew 24:15” and compare this to 2Thess 2:4. Remember Paul was talking about the Church apostasy as one of the sign in 2Thess. The deceiver is inside the congregation as we speak deceiving Christians.

Ac 20:29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.

Now, there were two signs Paul gave in 2nd Thessalonians about the second coming of the Lord Jesus Christ. The apostasy and the Wicked man -2Thess 2:3.

And from this verse we can read that “He, the ministry of the Holy Spirit -2Thess 2:7” is holding for the revelation of the “Wicked one” until this “He, the ministry of the Holy Spirit -2Thess 2:7” is taken away. The revelation of the “Wicked one” is not for the saints but for the unbelievers who “refused to love the truth and so be saved -2Thess 2:10”

When this “He, the ministry of the Holy Spirit -2Thess 2:7” is about to be taken away then 1Thess 4:17 “then we who are alive and remain” [this is after the “Thousand Years” the revelation of satan –Rev 20:7, 2Thess 2:7] the rapture of the saints will take place, and this is between Rev 20:7 and Rev 20:9, and in 2Thess 2:8 the revelation of the “wicked one” will be revealed to those people described in 2Thess 2:9-12 “they perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved -2Thess 2:10”

After the rapture of the saints there is no need for the “the ministry of the Holy Spirit -2Thess 2:7” and that is the reason why He will be taken away with the saints.

These people, 2Thess 2:10, don’t have any idea that they are in the inner circle of satan “the secret power of lawlessness -2Thess 2:7” until God revealed it to them in 2Thess 2:8 “whom the Lord Jesus Christ shall consume with the spirit of His mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of His coming”. Read Rev 20:9.

God’s revelation of the “Wicked one” to those who “refused to love the truth and so be saved -2Thess 2:10” is after the “Rapture” of the saints. The ministry of the Holy Spirit will revert back like the one in Genesis 6:3.

Read Revelation 20:9-10 and compare that to 2nd Thess 2:8 and you will understand that this is the end of satan.

There cannot be two events of destroying satan by the Lord Jesus Christ.

The second coming of the Lord Jesus Christ is “not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for Him. –Heb 9:28”, and judgment time for those people “refused to love the truth and so be saved -2Thess 2:10”.

 

[1robin]

You are incorrect on saying theres a difference between raised and resurrection.

What does it say in Acts 2:32? "God has raised this Jesus to life, and we are all witnesses of it."

You are implying that all others were raised and Jesus was resurrected.So,according to your own logic,this contradicts what Gods Word is saying.
Gods Word says raised. Raised ,in fact,means resurrected.

THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE

Thesaurus
resurrect:
verb 1 we believe that Jesus was resurrected: raise from the dead, restore to life, revive.


Dictionary
resurrect: |ˌrezəˈrekt|
verb [ with obj. ]
restore (a dead person) to life: he was dead, but he was resurrected.

It means the exact same thing.......

Quoted from WOL
The Greek word a·na′sta·sis literally means “raising up; standing up.” It is used frequently in the Christian Greek Scriptures with reference to the resurrection of the dead.

You are correct in suggesting the terms were not rigorously and constantly maintained but you are incorrect in suggesting Christ and those who were resuscitated represent the same event. The bible is at times emphatic and others general but not one single other example of a resurrection to eternal life exists in the bible apart from Christ. Even the two prophets who were carried straight to heaven will have to die. Many suggest they are the two prophets in revelations who are killed.

Your making a semantic argument and before I engage in it let me ask what you think actually happened. Did the guy who toughed Elisha's bones never die afterward? What about the Shumanite woman's son? Joseph? The centurions son? Are they still alive today. Did Jesus die again? Was he not the very first fruits of resurrection? Was he not the first to receive an eternal resurrection body? Sometimes semantics must be tempered with the consistency of the narrative.

 

[Muffled]

What Jesus did make clear is that he is not the father but admitted a very close relationship.

I believe He is clear on that but many people have trouble understanding it anyway.

I believe it is impossible to be any closer than being one with the Father.

 

[Muffled]

Sounds kinky. It's really moot isn't it, since people worship Jesus AS a god?

I believe I do not worship Jesus as a god but as God.

 

[Muffled]

I said- Jesus made it clear many times that he WASN'T God, so I can't understand why this topic has run to over 800 pages, or am I missing something?
Jesus said -"Why do you call me good? No one is good except God alone" (Luke 18:19)
Jesus said - "Only God knows when Judgment Day will be, I don't know myself" (Mark 13:32)
Jesus said - "I say nothing of my own accord, i only say what my father tells me to say.." (John 12:49)
Jesus said - "My teaching is not my own. It comes from him who sent me" (John 7:17)
Jesus said to God the day before his execution- “Father, the hour has come....I am coming to you now" (John 17:13)
Jesus said - "Father, into your hands I commit my spirit." (Luke 23:46)
Jesus said - "I am going to the Father, for my Father is greater than I" (John 14:28 )
God himself said - "This is my beloved son, listen to him" (Matt 17:5)
High Priest asks - "Are you the Son of God?" Jesus replies - "I am" (Mark 14:61)
And of course Jesus regularly prayed to God, yet if he was God why would he pray to himself?



I'm not sure what you're getting at mate, those Jesus quotes seem clear enough to me, or am I missing something?..

1. Jesus calls Himself good so He is God.

2. Jesus is temporal and won't be around for that time.

3. Jesus speaks the word of God because He is God.

4. Jesus teaches God's word because He is God.

5. & 6. I believe when Jesus leaves the body there's no more Jesus except in concept. However That is what I expect of God.

7. Greater does not mean a differnece in essence but in position. (My Pastor preached on that last Sunday and those were his words.

8. & 9. God does not have sons. It means that Jesus is God.

10. Jesus praying to the Father means God is praying to Himself.

 

[Muffled]

Jesus never said he was God. Jesus is not God.He is the Son of God the Almighty.Jesus was created by God.He is his firstborn over all creation.

I believe however He did say the equivalent when He said that He is one with the Father.

I believe you have no evidence to support this and I have provided a great deal of evidence that He is God and refuted all of the misinterpretations by those who think He is not God.

I beleive according to the Qu'ran God does not have sons and I see no Biblical evidence that he did.

I beleive although this is true the creation contains God and is known as God for that reason.

I beleive He was created and born the first time that ever happened.

 

[Muffled]

True Christians do not say that the Lord Jesus Christ was a created being of God, because there is no proof in the bible that it did say that God created the Lord Jesus Christ.

Now, if you can provide verses that the Lord Jesus Christ is/was a created being of God then show them and please stop preaching.

I beleive I am a true Christian and I say it.

I believe the evidence is that Jesus was not conceived by a man so how many choices does that leave? I believe the verse that says He is the first born of al creation is saying that he is a creation.

I also believe that Jesus is also the uncreated God.

 

[Shuttlecraft]

A tricky question for the 'Jesus was God' brigade:-
If Jesus was God, did he pray to himself?

"Jesus often withdrew to lonely places and prayed" (Luke 5:16)

 

[Ben Dhyan]

^ Good point....if Jesus is God, this is how the Luke 22:42 prayer.... "Father, if you are willing, take this cup from me; yet not my will, but yours be done." would look like..."Jesus, if I am willing, take this cup from me; yet not my will, but my will will be done.

....doesn't make a whole lot of sense....yes?

But Jesus was an incarnation of God in the avatarial sense of the infinite manifesting in relative finite time and space....imho.

 

[`mud]

Christians are totally following the teachings of Paul and the influenced apostles in their aged thinking.
They're not following the teachings of Jesus, a Judistic preacher.
Jesus didn't speak Roman quotes from Pontious Pilate, He quoted Isaiah and such.
Nor did he espouse the syllables of Greecian prophets, He spoke Arabiac parables.
~
It was the following of the anti-christ named Paul, not your God or Jesus.
My opinion only.......not worth a hoot.
~
'mud

 

[JM2C]

Christians are totally following the teachings of Paul and the influenced apostles in their aged thinking.

They're not following the teachings of Jesus, a Judistic preacher.

Jesus didn't speak Roman quotes from Pontious Pilate, He quoted Isaiah and such.
Nor did he espouse the syllables of Greecian prophets, He spoke Arabiac parables.
~
It was the following of the anti-christ named Paul, not your God or Jesus.
My opinion only.......not worth a hoot.
~
'mud

Paul an antichrist?

Let me ask you, the Gentiles, if one is not a Jew one is a Gentile or a Barbarian, when did they start to appear in the four gospels? Or what is the meaning of,
Mt 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

 

[`mud]

hey JM2C,
Matt was out of words about the distress that he found there...
but not really that, but kind of like Paul dictated his memories of these experiences...
And on and On....
Everything written about Jesus was written from memory about what people remember He said.
Jesus didn't write anything to be read or recited from Jesus' hand.
Paul dictated most of the contents in the new testament, or highly influenced the writing of these psalms.
That's why I call him, Paul, the anti-Christ. Paul never met Jesus and barely knew Petre, named (Simon, or Peter), let alone the rest of the apostles.
~
But your reciting writings of Matthew doesn't tell the whole story does it ?
Your explanation of what I posted sounds like double talk to me,
maybe it is....who really knows....it must be true...Paul said it was.
~
ok nuff stuff,
'mud

 

[Shuttlecraft]

..It was the following of the anti-christ named Paul, not your God or Jesus..

Paul said- "Follow Jesus, don't follow me or anybody else" (1 Cor 1:12/13), so that makes Paul a decent guy in my book..

 

[`mud]

The word subterfuge comes to mind.
~
'mud

 

[Shuttlecraft]

There's an old saying- "Fibbers always think everybody else is fibbing too"..

WIKI- "Paranoid personality disorder is a psychiatric diagnosis characterized by a pervasive and long-standing suspiciousness and generalized mistrust of others"
Paranoid personality disorder - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The paranoid view of the Bible-
Genesis- LIES!
Exodus- LIES!
Leviticus- LIES!
Numbers- LIES!
Deuteronomy-LIES!
Joshua- LIES!
Judges-LIES!
Ruth-LIES!
1 Samuel-LIES!
2 Samuel- LIES!
1 Kings- LIES!
2 Kings- LIES!
1 Chronicles-LIES!
2 Chronicles-LIES!
Ezra- LIES!
Nehemiah-LIES!
Esther-LIES!
Job-LIES!
Psalms-LIES!
Proverbs-LIES!
Ecclesiastes-LIES!
Song of Solomon-LIES!
Isaiah-LIES!
Jeremiah-LIES!
Lamentations-LIES!
Ezekiel- LIES!
Daniel- LIES!
Hosea- LIES!
Joel-LIES!
Amos-LIES!
Obadiah-LIES!
Jonah-LIES!
Micah-LIES!
Nahum-LIES!
Habakkuk-LIES!
Zephaniah-LIES!
Haggai-LIES!
Zecharia-LIES!
Malachi-LIES!
Matthew-LIES!
Mark-LIES!
Luke-LIES!
John- LIES!
The Acts-LIES!
Romans-LIES!
1 Corinthians-LIES!
2 Corinthians- LIES!
Galatians-LIES!
Ephesians- LIES!
Phillipians-LIES!
Colossians-LIES!
1 Thessalonians-LIES!
2 Thessalonians-LIES!
1 Timothy-LIES!
2 Timothy-LIES!
Titus-LIES!
Philemon- LIES!
Hebrews- LIES!
James-LIES!
1 Peter-LIES!
2 Peter- LIES!
1 John- LIES!
2 John-LIES!
3 John-LIES!
Jude-LIES!
Revelation-LIES!

 

[Nada]

If Jesus was created as is spoken of in Colossians 1:15,and God the Almighty is eternal,as is spoken of in Revelation 1:8,then,Jesus cannot be God.

Matthew 24:36 says only the Father knows the appointed time of the end.Not the angels nor the Son.If Jesus was God ,then he should have known.

In Matthew 26:39 Jesus is praying to God on his face and asking God to remove the cup from him.First,God does not pray to anyone.Second,God does not have to ask anyone for permission to do anything.

1 Corinthians 15:24-28 clearly shows that Jesus is in subjection to God,His Father,and God is in control of everything.

There are many other scriptures that prove Jesus is not God.

 

[1robin]

If Jesus was created as is spoken of in Colossians 1:15,and God the Almighty is eternal,as is spoken of in Revelation 1:8,then,Jesus cannot be God.

Matthew 24:36 says only the Father knows the appointed time of the end.Not the angels nor the Son.If Jesus was God ,then he should have known.

In Matthew 26:39 Jesus is praying to God on his face and asking God to remove the cup from him.First,God does not pray to anyone.Second,God does not have to ask anyone for permission to do anything.

1 Corinthians 15:24-28 clearly shows that Jesus is in subjection to God,His Father,and God is in control of everything.

There are many other scriptures that prove Jesus is not God.

I am not a trinity defender but I think Jesus was begotten not created. He was there before the beginning, did miracles in his name, claimed co-occupancy of God's throne, claimed all things were made through him, etc.... We only have angel, God, mere man, or demon to chose from. Which is best?