Please refer to the lords prayer, where jesus shows us how to pray, beginning with "Our Father".
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Did Jesus say he was God???
- Thread starter Muffled
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1robin
Christian/Baptist
There are two vital things I do not think either side is taking into account.
1. Jesus words while on earth were meant in a the context of being an example to us. Of course he at times seemed to depend on the father, so as to communicate how we should act but at other times he did miracles in his own name alone.
2. To say Jesus is not the father is not in any way to say Jesus is not God. God is one being made up of three persons in Trinitarian theology. Now I may not care either way and you may not accept it but if true then separating the son and father is irrelevant concerning Christ being God. God can be the son and yet by just as much God as the father.
Every comment I read recently seems to be made in exclusion to these two vital points.
1. Jesus words while on earth were meant in a the context of being an example to us. Of course he at times seemed to depend on the father, so as to communicate how we should act but at other times he did miracles in his own name alone.
2. To say Jesus is not the father is not in any way to say Jesus is not God. God is one being made up of three persons in Trinitarian theology. Now I may not care either way and you may not accept it but if true then separating the son and father is irrelevant concerning Christ being God. God can be the son and yet by just as much God as the father.
Every comment I read recently seems to be made in exclusion to these two vital points.
Shuttlecraft
.Navigator
You'll be telling us next that Buddha, Mohammed and Elvis never said anything either, right Elv?
"Uh-huh"..
hey Shuttle-barge,
Being a smart arrse won't get you anywhere in here.
I wasn't talking about what Jesus really said, I was talking about what He supposedly said.
I was talking about the fact that He was quoted by the apostles through Paul and others.
I was talking about the fact that Jesus never wrote anything, not a single word.
Strange to me that His "word" wasn't ever written by His own hand, even "do until others".
Why do you think that Jesus never wrote any great treatise or lessons to guide people ?
Who heard the wonderful things that were said, and quoted Him as hearsay.
Why did He ignore the fact that anyone alive in those days wouldn't want to preserve His words, written by His own hand ?
He could read the ancient words of Isaiah and Soloman and the scripture of those days,
and if could read those words, so Paul and the apostles tell us, why didn't He write any ?
~
And in respect...what did Buddha, Mohammed, and Elvis write ? Do you know pesonnally ?
I could guess that they did, but are you sure ?
~
OK I've said enough stuff, nuff of that,
'mud
Being a smart arrse won't get you anywhere in here.
I wasn't talking about what Jesus really said, I was talking about what He supposedly said.
I was talking about the fact that He was quoted by the apostles through Paul and others.
I was talking about the fact that Jesus never wrote anything, not a single word.
Strange to me that His "word" wasn't ever written by His own hand, even "do until others".
Why do you think that Jesus never wrote any great treatise or lessons to guide people ?
Who heard the wonderful things that were said, and quoted Him as hearsay.
Why did He ignore the fact that anyone alive in those days wouldn't want to preserve His words, written by His own hand ?
He could read the ancient words of Isaiah and Soloman and the scripture of those days,
and if could read those words, so Paul and the apostles tell us, why didn't He write any ?
~
And in respect...what did Buddha, Mohammed, and Elvis write ? Do you know pesonnally ?
I could guess that they did, but are you sure ?
~
OK I've said enough stuff, nuff of that,
'mud
JM2C
CHRISTIAN
Mt 6:6 But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.
Mt 6:7 And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words.
Mt 6:8 Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him.
Mt 6:9 This, then, is how you should pray:
Our Father in heaven,
hallowed be your name,
JM2C
CHRISTIAN
Another JW, INC here, or Islam pretending to be a Christian
Nada
#
Why do you speak like that to me? No one is pretending to be anything.The topic is did Jesus say he was God ,and I answered it.
Nada
#
The behavior you display is not one of a true Christian.When you speak to people ,it should be with the utmost respect.Your approach is not welcoming or loving.
John 13:35 By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.
Are you doing this? No,you are not.
James 3:9 With the tongue we praise our Lord and Father, and with it we curse human beings, who have been made in Gods likeness.
JM2C
CHRISTIAN
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Nada
#
John 8:42 Jesus said to them, "If God were your Father, you would love me, for I have come here from God. I have not come on my own; God sent me.
John 13:3 Jesus knew that the Father had put all things under his power, and that he had come from God and was returning to God;
1 Corinthians 15:24-28. 24Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power. 25For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. 26The last enemy to be destroyed is death. 27For he has put everything under his feet.c Now when it says that everything has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ. 28When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.
John 6:38
For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me.
John 5:30
By myself I can do nothing; I judge only as I hear, and my judgment is just, for I seek not to please myself but him who sent me
John 8:28
So Jesus said, "When you have lifted up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am he and that I do nothing on my own but speak just what the Father has taught me.
John 12:49
For I did not speak on my own, but the Father who sent me commanded me to say all that I have spoken.
John 12:50
I know that his command leads to eternal life. So whatever I say is just what the Father has told me to say."
THESE SCRIPTURES SHOW HOW JESUS IS NOT GOD.THEY ALSO SHOW HOW JESUS IS COMMANDED TO DO THESE THINGS.WE ALL KNOW THAT NO ONE COMMANDS GOD TO DO ANYTHING.GOD IS THE ALMIGHTY.
John 13:3 Jesus knew that the Father had put all things under his power, and that he had come from God and was returning to God;
1 Corinthians 15:24-28. 24Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power. 25For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. 26The last enemy to be destroyed is death. 27For he has put everything under his feet.c Now when it says that everything has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ. 28When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.
John 6:38
For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me.
John 5:30
By myself I can do nothing; I judge only as I hear, and my judgment is just, for I seek not to please myself but him who sent me
John 8:28
So Jesus said, "When you have lifted up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am he and that I do nothing on my own but speak just what the Father has taught me.
John 12:49
For I did not speak on my own, but the Father who sent me commanded me to say all that I have spoken.
John 12:50
I know that his command leads to eternal life. So whatever I say is just what the Father has told me to say."
THESE SCRIPTURES SHOW HOW JESUS IS NOT GOD.THEY ALSO SHOW HOW JESUS IS COMMANDED TO DO THESE THINGS.WE ALL KNOW THAT NO ONE COMMANDS GOD TO DO ANYTHING.GOD IS THE ALMIGHTY.
JM2C
CHRISTIAN
True Christians do not say that the Lord Jesus Christ was a created being of God, because there is no proof in the bible that it did say that God created the Lord Jesus Christ.
Now, if you can provide verses that the Lord Jesus Christ is/was a created being of God then show them and please stop preaching.
Nada
#
Well, if you look at Colossians 1:15 it says that Jesus is the firstborn over all creation.That means he was created by God.If you read Revelation 1:8 it tells us that God is eternal and has no creator.Therefore,Jesus cannot be,and is not, God
Colossians 1:16,17. goes on to say, 16 For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities-- all things have been created through Him and for Him. 17 He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together.
This passage is telling us that Jesus was with God in the beginning when all things were being created.He was a spirit of course,just as he is now.Thats why it says this in Genesis 1:26
Then God said, "Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness,
It was Jesus who God was speaking to as a spirit form.God says "let us."
This can be confirmed by reading Proverbs 8:22-31.
22The Lord brought me forth as the first of his works,before his deeds of old;
23I was formed long ages ago,
at the very beginning, when the world came to be.
24When there were no watery depths, I was given birth,
when there were no springs overflowing with water;
25before the mountains were settled in place,
before the hills, I was given birth,
26before he made the world or its fields
or any of the dust of the earth.
27I was there when he set the heavens in place,
when he marked out the horizon on the face of the deep,
28when he established the clouds above
and fixed securely the fountains of the deep,
29when he gave the sea its boundary
so the waters would not overstep his command,
and when he marked out the foundations of the earth.
30Then I was by him, as a master workman: and I was daily his delight, rejoicing always before him;
31rejoicing in his whole world
and delighting in mankind.
JM2C
CHRISTIAN
Asked and answered already. Please read post #8394
Nada
#
If you are going to address me,do so respectfully.Don't speak to me like that.
Do onto others as you would have them do onto you.THIS IS THE GOLDEN RULE
Matthew 7:12 So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.
Luke 6:31 Do to others as you would have them do to you.
Nada
#
Without looking for post and arguing for days,all of this could be easily dismissed with two verses.
#1 James 1:13 When tempted, no one should say, "God is tempting me." For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone;
#2 Then Jesus was led by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil.
Conclusion
Jesus cannot be God for God cannot be tempted by evil as Gods Word says in James 1:13
By reading Matthew 4:1, we can clearly see that Jesus Christ was tempted by satan.
JESUS IS NOT GOD,ACCORDING TO GODS OWN WORD, IN THE HOLY SCRIPTURES.
Nada
#
Matthew 19:4-6 THIS IS JESUS SPEAKING ABOUT GOD
4 In reply he said: Have you not read that the one who created them from the beginning made them male and female 5 and said: For this reason a man will leave his father and his mother and will stick to his wife, and the two will be one flesh? 6 So that they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore, what God has yoked together, let no man put apart.
JESUS IS SPEAKING ABOUT GOD.HE SAYS,"Have you not read that the one who created them from the beginning made them male and female"
HE ALSO SAYS," Therefore, what God has yoked together, let no man put apart.
JESUS IS OBVIOUSLY SPEAKING ABOUT GOD AND NOT HIMSELF.
4 In reply he said: Have you not read that the one who created them from the beginning made them male and female 5 and said: For this reason a man will leave his father and his mother and will stick to his wife, and the two will be one flesh? 6 So that they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore, what God has yoked together, let no man put apart.
JESUS IS SPEAKING ABOUT GOD.HE SAYS,"Have you not read that the one who created them from the beginning made them male and female"
HE ALSO SAYS," Therefore, what God has yoked together, let no man put apart.
JESUS IS OBVIOUSLY SPEAKING ABOUT GOD AND NOT HIMSELF.
JM2C
CHRISTIAN
Col 1:15, the basic argument for the JW, INC and some semi-hybrid Christians.
Every time you people see the word firstborn your thoughts were always the first creation or first created being, or something that God created first.
Was Israel the first nation?
Ex 4:22 And thou shalt say unto Pharaoh, Thus saith the LORD, Israel is my son, even my firstborn:
If you read post #8394 you will find that the Lord Jesus Christ never addressed God and Father as our Father and our God in the four gospels.
The distinction between the Lords my Father twice and my God once, and to Marys, your Father and your God in John 20:17 was not that there were two gods, but that Marys relationship with God was CLEARLY different from the Lord Jesus Christ.
The Lord Jesus is the eternal Son of the Father or the Son of God John 1:1-3, V18, Romans 1:4; while Mary, as well as all the disciples, had become a member of the family by receiving him John 1:12, or through adoption -Eph 1:5. Both relationships concerned only one God, but that doesnt mean the Lord Jesus Christ is not God or a created being of God. He is God because He is the Son of God Hebrews 1:8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God.
You read the difference now between the Lord Jesus Christ calling God and Father, if you read post #8394, as the only begotten Son of God and not like a created being like the Christians who were the adopted children of God.
If you compare John 20:17 to this verse To our God and Father Phil 4:20 Paul use of our God and Father as not the the only begotten Son or the only Son of God. but as the adopted children of God.
Now, as the adopted, the Christians, children of God, the Lord Jesus Christ has the preeminence over all creation V18 where you cut off- because He is the Son of God and not as a created son of God through adoption like the Christians, BUT the Only begotten Son of God not by means of creation like your interpretation of Col 1:15.
Nada
#
No.You are incorrect.