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Did Jesus say he was God???

newcastle

Member
I have been asked to produce evidence of the divinity of Jesus. This is not just good evidence, it is overwhelming evidence.


Words of Jesus

John 14:9 ... he that hath seen me hath seen the Father
John 14:10 ... the words that I say unto you , I speak not from myself but from the Father abiding in Me doeth His works
John 14:11 ... I am in the Father and the Father in Me
John 10:30 I and My Father are one
John 10:33 ... thou being a man makest Thyself God
John 8:58 Jesus said ... before Abraham was born, Jah (Jah is the short form of Jeshovah)
John 8:59 They took up stones therefore to cast at Him
Mark 2:5 and Jesus seeing their faith saith ... thy sins are forgiven
Mark 2:7 ... who can forgive sins but one, even God
Mark 10:17 ... good teacher Mark 10:18 Why callest Me good? None is good save one, even God John 10:11 I am the good shepherd
Mat. 1:21 ... call his name Jesus; for it is He that shall save his people from their sins
Prophecies of the Messiah Jesus
Isa. 45:21 ... I, Jehovah? and there is no God else besides Me a just God and savior, there is none besides Me
Isa. 7:14 ... a sign: behold a virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and shall call His name Immanuel (God with us)
Isa 9:6 a son is given, and the government shall be upon His shoulder, and His name shall be called: Wonderful, Counsellor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace

Attributes of God
Omnipresence
John 1:46 Nathaniel saith unto Him, Whence knowest thou me? Jesus answered and said unto him Before Philip called thee, when thou wast under the fig tree, I saw thee.
John 1:49 Nathaniel answered him, Rabbi thou art the Son of God; thou art King of Israel.
John 1:50 Jesus answered ... thou shalt see greater things than these
Omniscience
Luke 6:8 ...the Pharisees watched Him ... that they might find how to accuse him but He knew their thoughts
John 4:17 ... Thou sayest well, I have no husband
John 4:18 for thou hast had five husbands and he whom thou now hast is not thy husband
Omnipotence
Mark 4:41 ... Who then is this, that even the wind and the sea obey Him?

(He turned water into wine, multiplied bread, healed the sick and the blind, raised a man who was dead for four days)
Authority
Luke 4:36 ... for with authority and power He commandeth the unclean spirits and they come out
Mat 7:29 for He taught them as one having authority
Mat 28:18 ... Jesus ...spake... saying, all authority hath been given unto Me in heaven and on earth
The "I am" statements of Jesus
John 8:12 ... I am the light of the world
John 14:6 ... I am the way, the truth and the life
John 6:35 ... I am the bread of life
John 10:9 I am the door, by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved
John 11:25 ... I am the resurrection and the life
John 15:1 I am the true vine (this is a reference to Jesus being the Paraclete)


That's alot of proof, he is the son of God no question about it!!

Job,1- 6One day, when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, Satan also came among them..
Mark,3- 11And whenever unclean spirits saw him they would fall down before him and shout, "You are the Son of God."

Sons of God are angels, but i don't worship angels, i worship GOD... but that's alot of proof!!
 

Dirty Penguin

Master Of Ceremony
That's alot of proof, he is the son of God no question about it!!

Job,1- 6One day, when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, Satan also came among them..
Mark,3- 11And whenever unclean spirits saw him they would fall down before him and shout, "You are the Son of God."

Sons of God are angels, but i don't worship angels, i worship GOD... but that's alot of proof!!

Welcome to the forum.......:)

As you can see this is classic with trinitarian thinking. Some, like Muffled, dole out random quotes that are all taken out of context to try and prove their point. But we can clearly see through all of that. All of his quotes have been dealt with and so far we are still waiting on this "OVERWHELMING" Evidence he says he has.
 

lew0049

CWebb
Okay,
I believe Jesus to be God in the flesh. Note in the flesh - meaning He would experience pain, suffering (he bleed), temptation- basically having the characteristics of man and being confined to our world- and he would have to endure just as we do.
Obviously, this is apart from the being we think of as God b/c he is not confined to our world, etc... What I don't understand though is why people have the misconception that God is a person, He is a Being. Let’s look at John 1-14:

In the beginning. This expression is used also in Gen 1:1. To that place John evidently has allusion here, and means to apply to "the Word" an expression which is there applied to God. In both places it clearly means "before creation," "before the world was made," "when as yet there was nothing." The meaning is, that the Word had an existence before the world was created. This is not spoken of the man Jesus, but of that which became a man, or was incarnate, Jn 1:14. The Hebrews, by expressions like this, commonly denoted eternity. Thus the eternity of God is described (Ps 902): Before the mountains were brought forth, &c.; and eternity is commonly expressed by the phrase, before the foundation of the world. Whatever is meant by the term "Word," it is clear that it had an existence before creations. It is not, then, a creature or created being, and must be, therefore, uncreated and eternal. There is but one Being that is uncreated, and Jesus must be therefore divine. Compare the Saviour's own declarations respecting himself in the following places: Jn 8:58, Jn 17:5, Jn 6:62, Jn 3:13 6:46 8:14 16:28.
Was the Word. Greek, "was the Logos." This name is given to him who afterward became flesh, or was incarnate (Jn 1:14) -- that is, to the Messiah. Whatever is meant by it, therefore, is applicable to the Lord Jesus Christ. There have been many opinions about the reason why this name was given to the Son of God. Those opinions it is unnecessary to repeat. The opinion which seems most plausible may be expressed as follows:
1st. A word is that by which we communicate our will; by which we convey our thoughts;
2nd. The Son of God may be called "the Word," because he is the medium by which God promulgates his will and issues his commandments. See Heb 1:1ff.
3rd. This term was in use before the time of John.
(a) It was used in the Chaldee translation of the Old Testament, as, e.g., Isa 45:12: "I have made the earth, and created man upon it." In the Chaldee it is, "I, by my word, have made," &c. Isa 48:13: "Mine hand also hath laid the foundation of the earth." In the Chaldee, "By my word I have founded the earth." And so in many other places.
(b) This term was used by the Jews as applicable to the Messiah. In their writings he was commonly known by the term "Mimra " -- that is, "Word;" and no small part of the interpositions of God in defence of the Jewish nation were declared to be by "the Word of God." Thus, in their Targum on Deut 26:17, Deut 26:18, it is said, "Ye have appointed THE WORD OF GOD a king over you this day, that he may be your God."
(c) The term was used by the Jews who were scattered among the Gentiles, and especially those who were conversant with the Greek philosophy.
(d) The term was used by the followers of Plato among the Greeks, to denote the second person of the Trinity. The term nous, or mind, was commonly given to this second person, but it was said that this nous was the word or reason of the first person. The term was therefore extensively in use among the Jews and Gentiles before John wrote his Gospel, and it was certain that it would be applied to the second person of the Trinity by Christians, whether converted from Judaism or Paganism. It was important, therefore, that the meaning of the term should be settled by an inspired man, and accordingly John, in the commencement of his Gospel, is at much pains to state clearly what is the true doctrine respecting the Logos, or Word. It is possible, also, that the doctrines of the Gnostics had begun to spread in the time of John. They were an Oriental sect, and held that the Logos or Word was one of the AEons that had been created, and that this one had been united to the man Jesus. If that doctrine had begun then to prevail, it was of the more importance for John to settle the truth in regard to the rank of the Logos or Word. This he has done in such a way that there need be no doubt about its meaning.
 

lew0049

CWebb
Was with God. This expression denotes friendship or intimacy. Comp. Mk 9:19. John affirms that he was with God in the beginning -- that is, before the world was made. It implies, therefore, that he was partaker of the divine glory; that he was blessed and happy with God. It proves that he was intimately united with the Father, so as to partake of his glory and to be appropriately called by the name God. He has himself explained it. See Jn 17:5: And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self, with the glory which I had with thee before the world was. See also Jn 1:18: No man hath seen God at any time, the only-begotten Son, which IS IN THE BOSOM OF THE FATHER, he hath declared him. See also Jn 3:13: The Son of man, which is in heaven. Comp. Phil 2:6, Phil 2:7.
Was God. In the previous phrase John had said that the Word was with God. Lest it should be supposed that he was a different and inferior being, he here states that he was God. There is no more unequivocal declaration in the Bible than this, and there could be no stronger proof that the sacred writer meant to affirm that the Son of God was equal with the Father; for,
1st. There is no doubt that by the Logos is meant Jesus Christ.
2nd. This is not an attribute or quality of God, but is a real subsistence, for it is said that the Logos was made flesh -- that is, became a man.
3rd. There is no variation here in the manuscripts, and critics have observed that the Greek will bear no other construction than what is expressed in our translation-that the Word was God.
4th. There is no evidence that John intended to use the word God in an inferior sense. It is not "the Word was a god," or "the Word was like God," but the Word was God. He had just used the word God as evidently applicable to Jehovah, the true God; and it is absurd to suppose that the would in the same verse, and without any indication that he was using the word in an inferior sense, employ it to denote a being altogether inferior to the true God.
5th. The name God is elsewhere given to him, showing that he is the supreme God. See Rom 9:5 Heb 1:8, Heb 1:9,10-12 1Jn 5:20 Jn 20:28.
The meaning of this important verse may then be thus summed up:
1st. The name Logos, or Word, is given to Christ in reference to his becoming the Teacher or Instructor of mankind; the medium of communication between God and man.
2nd. The name was in use at the time of John, and it was his design to state the correct doctrine respecting the Logos.
3rd. The Word, or Logos, existed before creation -- of course was not a creature, and must have been, therefore, from eternity.
4th. He was with God -- that is, he was united to him in a most intimate and close union before the creation; and, as it could not be said that God was with himself, it follows that the Logos was in some sense distinct from God, or that there was a distinction between the Father and the Son. When we say that one is with another, we imply that there is some sort of distinction between them.
5th. Yet, lest it should be supposed that he was a different and inferior being -- a creature -- he affirms that he was God -- that is, was equal with the Father. This is the foundation of the doctrine of the Trinity:
1. That the second person is in some sense distinct from the first.
2. That he is intimately united with the first person in essence, so that there are not two or more Gods.
3. That the second person may be called by the same name; has the same attributes; performs the same works; and is entitled to the same honours with the first, and that therefore he is "the same in substance, and equal in power and glory," with God.
{a** "In the beginning" Prov 8:22ff Col 1:16, Col 1:17 1Jn 1:1 {b** "the Word" Rev 19:13 {c** "with God" Jn 17:5 {d** "was God" Phil 2:6 Heb 1:8ff 1Jn 5:7
Retrieved from "http://bible.tmtm.com/wiki/John_Chapter_1%2C_Verse_1/commentary"
 

Popeyesays

Well-Known Member
The "Word" most associated with God at the Creation is fully described in Genesis. I am sure John was familiar with the opening chapter of Genesis.

Regards,
Scott
 

logician

Well-Known Member
That's alot of proof, he is the son of God no question about it!!

Job,1- 6One day, when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, Satan also came among them..
Mark,3- 11And whenever unclean spirits saw him they would fall down before him and shout, "You are the Son of God."

Sons of God are angels, but i don't worship angels, i worship GOD... but that's alot of proof!!


One cannot prove anything from scripture, written largely by unknown authors, many years after the supposed evernts took place - hearsay at best, made up and forgeries at worst.
 

Dirty Penguin

Master Of Ceremony
One cannot prove anything from scripture, written largely by unknown authors, many years after the supposed evernts took place - hearsay at best, made up and forgeries at worst.

I agree with you.....But the answer to the original question can and has been answered. No matter how many times or how many ways the question is asked it can be answered.....and the answer will always be.....NO!

Given the current "evidence".....that's all one can go on.....All is needed is a basic understanding and basic logic (common sense).....

If I told some one I was taught, the person wouldn't take it as I taught myself. How do theist answer the question...Did their God teach himself? If he did then how could he have been omniscient. I reason that if one is taught there must be a teacher.

If I told some one I was sent, the person wouldn't think that I sent myself. They would ask.."Who sent you you?"....Do theist believe their God sent himself? I reason that if one is sent there must be a sender.

If I told some one I was given this, the person wouldn't think that I gave it to myself. Do theist believe their God gave himself something that already belonged to him? I reason that if one is given there must be a giver.

If they arrive at the illogical answer of Yes! to those questions...then I think they don't really no their own scripture they like to thump....
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
That's alot of proof, he is the son of God no question about it!!

Job,1- 6One day, when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, Satan also came among them..
Mark,3- 11And whenever unclean spirits saw him they would fall down before him and shout, "You are the Son of God."

Sons of God are angels, but i don't worship angels, i worship GOD... but that's alot of proof!!

You are only partially correct. Men and angels are sons of God in that they were created. Jesus only comes by this materially. Since He is God in the flesh His spirit is the Uncreated but it took an act of creation to form the conception of Jesus in Mary's womb. That is how Jesus can be a son of God like us.

This is a little bit different. Jesus is "The" Son of God because He is the only begotten of God, not in the sense of procreation but in the sense of a baby being born. Adam whose body was also created was not created in the womb and was not born.

It is a lot of proof and most of it not easy to find in the New World Translation because the translators did their best to expunge it. It is a dangerous sect that thinks it knows what God said better than God Himself.
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
Okay,
I believe Jesus to be God in the flesh. Note in the flesh - meaning He would experience pain, suffering (he bleed), temptation- basically having the characteristics of man and being confined to our world- and he would have to endure just as we do.
Obviously, this is apart from the being we think of as God b/c he is not confined to our world, etc... What I don't understand though is why people have the misconception that God is a person, He is a Being. Let’s look at John 1-14:

In the beginning. This expression is used also in Gen 1:1. To that place John evidently has allusion here, and means to apply to "the Word" an expression which is there applied to God. In both places it clearly means "before creation," "before the world was made," "when as yet there was nothing." The meaning is, that the Word had an existence before the world was created. This is not spoken of the man Jesus, but of that which became a man, or was incarnate, Jn 1:14. The Hebrews, by expressions like this, commonly denoted eternity. Thus the eternity of God is described (Ps 902): Before the mountains were brought forth, &c.; and eternity is commonly expressed by the phrase, before the foundation of the world. Whatever is meant by the term "Word," it is clear that it had an existence before creations. It is not, then, a creature or created being, and must be, therefore, uncreated and eternal. There is but one Being that is uncreated, and Jesus must be therefore divine. Compare the Saviour's own declarations respecting himself in the following places: Jn 8:58, Jn 17:5, Jn 6:62, Jn 3:13 6:46 8:14 16:28.
Was the Word. Greek, "was the Logos." This name is given to him who afterward became flesh, or was incarnate (Jn 1:14) -- that is, to the Messiah. Whatever is meant by it, therefore, is applicable to the Lord Jesus Christ. There have been many opinions about the reason why this name was given to the Son of God. Those opinions it is unnecessary to repeat. The opinion which seems most plausible may be expressed as follows:
1st. A word is that by which we communicate our will; by which we convey our thoughts;
2nd. The Son of God may be called "the Word," because he is the medium by which God promulgates his will and issues his commandments. See Heb 1:1ff.
3rd. This term was in use before the time of John.
(a) It was used in the Chaldee translation of the Old Testament, as, e.g., Isa 45:12: "I have made the earth, and created man upon it." In the Chaldee it is, "I, by my word, have made," &c. Isa 48:13: "Mine hand also hath laid the foundation of the earth." In the Chaldee, "By my word I have founded the earth." And so in many other places.
(b) This term was used by the Jews as applicable to the Messiah. In their writings he was commonly known by the term "Mimra " -- that is, "Word;" and no small part of the interpositions of God in defence of the Jewish nation were declared to be by "the Word of God." Thus, in their Targum on Deut 26:17, Deut 26:18, it is said, "Ye have appointed THE WORD OF GOD a king over you this day, that he may be your God."
(c) The term was used by the Jews who were scattered among the Gentiles, and especially those who were conversant with the Greek philosophy.
(d) The term was used by the followers of Plato among the Greeks, to denote the second person of the Trinity. The term nous, or mind, was commonly given to this second person, but it was said that this nous was the word or reason of the first person. The term was therefore extensively in use among the Jews and Gentiles before John wrote his Gospel, and it was certain that it would be applied to the second person of the Trinity by Christians, whether converted from Judaism or Paganism. It was important, therefore, that the meaning of the term should be settled by an inspired man, and accordingly John, in the commencement of his Gospel, is at much pains to state clearly what is the true doctrine respecting the Logos, or Word. It is possible, also, that the doctrines of the Gnostics had begun to spread in the time of John. They were an Oriental sect, and held that the Logos or Word was one of the AEons that had been created, and that this one had been united to the man Jesus. If that doctrine had begun then to prevail, it was of the more importance for John to settle the truth in regard to the rank of the Logos or Word. This he has done in such a way that there need be no doubt about its meaning.

My wife had the same misconception. She wanted to know if God were in Jesus who was running the universe. The spirit of God is omnipresesent. While He is in Jesus He is everywhere else as well. Although we tend to see a dichotomy of God in the body and God outside the body, the truth is that God can never be defined by material borders and is one inside and outside of the body.

There are several definitions of "person." 1. A living soul 2. Any entity having personal characteristics. If you were talking about God in His essential state, He is a spirit (like us) and has personal characteristics. When you are talking about God in the flesh, that is a temporal state and both we and God are persons for the amount of time we are in that body.

By the way, the essential state is an eternal state and is superior to a temporal state which passes away. That is why Jesus can say that the Father is greater and knows more (by experience that the temporal state will not partake of).
 

crystalonyx

Well-Known Member
Nobody on this board can prove a historical Jesus even EXISTED, more or less the divinity of said individual. To make outrageous claims like these seem quite irresponsible.
 

Dirty Penguin

Master Of Ceremony
Nobody on this board can prove a historical Jesus even EXISTED,

I agree....



more or less the divinity of said individual. To make outrageous claims like these seem quite irresponsible.

Divinity (as in deity) can not be proven. Divinity (as in being GIVEN power) is in the bible. If I'm being questioned on the information that exist in that book (four gospels)....then it is a screaming NO!!!......Those scriptures contradict the assertion he is God.

The list of quotes at the beginning of this thread were from all over the bible....and taken out of their context....

The OP said he had "OVERWHELMING EVIDENCE"....but as you can clearly see....he was in error and we are now 1,153 post later with no conclusion in sight.
 

lew0049

CWebb
Nobody on this board can prove a historical Jesus even EXISTED, more or less the divinity of said individual. To make outrageous claims like these seem quite irresponsible.

I'm sorry but I, for one, am confident enough - based on the evidence presented - that Jesus did exist. I used to me a sceptic and that it's perfectly acceptable to believe he did not, but I hope that your conclusion is not ill-conceived. Irresponsible though? If you want to look at the evidence for and against Jesus existing then so be it, but you will be arguing against MANY of the scholars of the anicent world - and that is a fact.

As far as your response Dregod - make sure it is not you that is not taking verses out of context because I was in middle ground, so to speak, and I found the evidence for Jesus being god INCARNATE(notice what this word entails) very complelling.
-Chip
 

Popeyesays

Well-Known Member
I, for another, believe Jesus existed. I believe He was divine in nature.

I do not believe that the oceans of God's essence can be captured within a single vessel of finite capacity.

Regards,
Scott
 

logician

Well-Known Member
I'm sorry but I, for one, am confident enough - based on the evidence presented - that Jesus did exist. I used to me a sceptic and that it's perfectly acceptable to believe he did not, but I hope that your conclusion is not ill-conceived. Irresponsible though? If you want to look at the evidence for and against Jesus existing then so be it, but you will be arguing against MANY of the scholars of the anicent world - and that is a fact.

As far as your response Dregod - make sure it is not you that is not taking verses out of context because I was in middle ground, so to speak, and I found the evidence for Jesus being god INCARNATE(notice what this word entails) very complelling.
-Chip


Please present your evidence that Jesus existed, let's hope it is as convincing as that that supports the existence of Julius Ceasar.
 

Popeyesays

Well-Known Member
Please present your evidence that Jesus existed, let's hope it is as convincing as that that supports the existence of Julius Ceasar.

Why should it have to be that good?

There were wandering self-proclaimed holy men in Palestine at the time of Tiberius, the place was crawling with them.

Why is it unsuitable to take the evidence present that one of them is the historical persona of Jesus of nazareth?

Regards,
Scott
 

UnityNow101

Well-Known Member
Nobody has ever explained to me how scripture can be a proof. Can it be? Does it carry any more merit or credibility than the Quran, Bhagavad Gita or any other religious book? Or is it just your belief that one is more important than the other? Is that conditioned according to your culture or upbringing, or do you know for a fact that yours it truth?
 

Dirty Penguin

Master Of Ceremony
As far as your response Dregod - make sure it is not you that is not taking verses out of context

I think I have shown that I have not taken then out of context. I wasn't the one who originally laid out a bunch of quotes suggesting it proves something and calling it "Overwhelming Evidence".....I've actually had to take those quotes and explain in context. Saying Yeshua is God by throwing out John 8:58 is sloppy at best. Not only does the verse in its context not mean that but the words used don't mean what they are thought to mean.



because I was in middle ground, so to speak, and I found the evidence for Jesus being god INCARNATE(notice what this word entails) very compelling.
-Chip

Then produce this proof because every time said proof is presented it is incorrect. Your title under religion says it all "Jesus is my savior".....So what "middle of the road" are you talking about? You responded with bias. I'm neither a christian, muslim or jew......So I am unbiased because the evidence is to the contrary regarding Yeshua being God.

When I say Yeshua isn't God is because of one of the many verses where we can clearly see he isn't......

John 17:3
And this is life eternal, that they might know you, the only true god, and Jesus the Messiah, whom you have sent


"You are the only true god and I am the messiah".......

Can't get any more simple than that......or the other one that says "MY god and your god"......
 

R W Blu

New Member
None of it is evidence of divinity. You cannot contain the ocean in a teacup, and God the Creator cannot be contained within all of Hisx Creation, much less the body of ONE human being.

The fact that Jesus was born of woman means He cannot have been God.

"The Father which sent me. . ." is just one more of dozens of opportunities Jesus took to keep Himself separate from God in the minds of His followers. At opportunity after opportunity Jesus calls Himself the Son of Man, not the Son of God.

My wife and I are one according to the Old Testament, that does not make my wife me, or me, my wife.

Jesus and God were one in purpose, one in Revelation (Jesus the mouthpiece, God Revealed Himself with). It can mean everything but "one and the same".

You prove your own assumption in your own lights and expect it to convince others? That's called "begging the question" or "Circular argument". It's not proof in any rational sense.

Regards.

Scott

If an apple falls from a tree and is allowed to gestate, pray tell what will it become? Jesus is God in the same manner in which you are your fathers son, thus among one of His titles we find that He is referred to as the "prince of peace", not social or political peace but "spiritual". Jesus being in the form of human indeed was much like the apple, he was limited by what he was, "human", the scriptures declare as much, he was not a divine being "playing" at being human, but indeed was human --l John 1:1-4. But, Jesus was the Word made flesh -- John 1:1-4, 10-14. But he was human, he experienced a normal human birth -- Matthew 1:18-25. At 8 days of age he was circumcised in the Jewish tradition -- Luke 2:21. And he grew as a human child -- Luke 2:40. He increased in wisdom and stature -- Luke 2:52. Jesus the man was not unlike other men in appearance -- Isaiah 53:1-3. He experienced normal human needs and desires, hunger -- Matthew 4:2, thirst -- John 19:28, exhaustion -- John 4:6, pain l Peter 3:18, John 18:1-34. He was made a little lower than the angels -- Hebrew 2:7. Jesus was tempted in all points, just as is every man -- Hebrew 4:15. The apostle wrote about the humanity of Jesus -- l Tim. 2:5, "For there is one God and one mediator between God and man, the man Christ Jesus."

But, because Jesus was made human by design, this did not take away from his position of being considered and worshiped as God, his right by being the Son of God, the only begotten of the Father -- John chapter one. He was born of a virgin and conceived of the Holy Spirit -- Matthew 1:20. Writing of the Christ while in the flesh, the apostle Paul declared, "For in Him dwelleth the fullness of the "GODHEAD" bodily." -- Col. 2:9. When Jesus was born, He had the special title "SON" -- Hebrews 1:3-14. Hence He was worshiped by the angels -- Hebrews 1:6. And the scriptures clearly state that angels "are not" to worship mere mortal men -- Acts 10:25-26. Jesus acknowledged His "Sonship" -- John 10:29,36. The Jews' understood that Jesus was claiming to be "deity" because they considered it blasphemy, "because, that thou, being a man, makest thyself God -- John 10:33.

There is no other conclusion to be drawn form the scriptures than to conclude that Jesus was concurrently....both man and God. And in fact, history actual speaks for the physical evidence of such, for indeed if this were a false religion and not found to be real and favorable in the sight of God, pray tell how could this faith have grown from slightly over a dozen people to include the Messiah Himself to engulf 1/3 of the worlds total population? It would have come to nothing and made non-effect if it did not hold the blessings and promises of God Almighty, who indeed promised not to have His words corrupted -- Ps. 12:6-7.
 

Popeyesays

Well-Known Member
"If an apple falls from a tree and is allowed to gestate, pray tell what will it become? "

It won't become the tree which dropped it. The question is not relevant both apples and apple trees are part of God's Creation. God is not part of Creation, He is the Creator.

Regards,
Scott
 
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