Did Jesus say he was God???

[nour1]

What is Genesis chapter one dealing with but the creation of earth.

It is Revelation (3:14B) that says Jesus is the beginning of the creation by God.
And Colossians (1:15,16) that says Jesus is first born in the heavens.

Progressive information is given in Scripture. It was not known to the Hebrews that the 'seed' of Genesis (3:15) would turn out to be Jesus either. The people were looking for a Messiah to come but the details were revealed progressively.

hi!

i think you are missunderstanding the meaning of the first born in the heaven , the first born in the heaven means that jesus was the first one to be nammed by god in the heaven , but to be born in the heaven this is not true since he came from mary. in other words . jesus was revealed to his mother before this one knew his existance . not like any other one , however this didn t make him the first one created in the heaven . what about Adam and Eve , what about all creation before them ? since you say the first born in the heaven ,it doesn t mean first created and by this the versey jhon 14:34 is no longuer true ,and consequently the evangil will be doubtfull as well .

 

[arimoff]

so far as Jesus' divinity, the Gospels do record Jesus making a number of statements about Himself, as well as doing certain things which point to His divinity (as opposed to His being a mere man).

He never says He is God, yet He identifies Himself with the Father, and forgives sins, something only God can do. He calls Himself with a variety of titles and names denoting Godliness, reveals that He existed in and with God before the world was made, and declares that we are to honour Him as we honour the Father.

it is also written that if one does not have the Son, they do not have the Father, either. one can read these things and still come away unconvinced of Jesus' divinity, or one can read them and come to the understanding that Jesus truly is the Father come down in history as a Man.

Jesus does not say it, but He does demonstate it, that He is both Lord, and God. not all of God, as the Father still reigned in heaven. but certainly the Person, power, holiness, and authority of God come down to earth in human flesh.

He never said it then he is not, Torah is full of stories of holy men and there deeds, but no one neither them selfs claim to be G-ds sons.

I can say Im a prophet also but it doesn't mean I am, David Blane can do magic, but is he a G-D also if he claims to be? lol.

Jesus coming down as a father in a human flash actually sounds more Greek or Roman G-D then G-D of the Israelites.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

hi!

i think you are missunderstanding the meaning of the first born in the heaven , the first born in the heaven means that jesus was the first one to be nammed by god in the heaven , but to be born in the heaven this is not true since he came from mary. in other words . jesus was revealed to his mother before this one knew his existance . not like any other one , however this didn t make him the first one created in the heaven . what about Adam and Eve , what about all creation before them ? since you say the first born in the heaven ,it doesn t mean first created and by this the versey jhon 14:34 is no longuer true ,and consequently the evangil will be doubtfull as well .

Do you mean instead of verse 34 (?) rather John (14:28) where Jesus said his Father is greater than him?

Where does it say in Colossians 1:15,16 or Ephesians (3:9b) that Jesus was the first one named ? "Born" carried the thought of birth or beginning life.
"First" implies others to follow.
An image is a reflection but not the one. We use the expression a chip off the old block to show that reflection or image.

Adam was definitely son of God as Luke (3:38) records. Adam was a physical creation. The angelic sons already existed (Job 38:7) before Adam was created or came into existence. Adam was from dust or created from the dust of the earth. Adam did not have a pre-human existence in the heavens.
Adam was not sent to earth by God. Jesus was sent to earth by God.

Why would Jesus give the Revelation to John to say that Jesus is the beginning of the creation by God (Rev 3:14 b) if it were not true?

We know God did Not have a beginning. Psalms (90:2) says God is from everlasting meaning God had No start but always existed.
So, God is before the beginning. Jesus is Not before the beginning.
Thus at the start of heavenly creation there was not a multiple but a singular first one or firstborn one. There is only one only-begotten Son of God, and it was not Adam, nor any angelic son of God because as Colossians 1:16 says all things are though Jesus....

 

[Muffled]

Said who? where else have you seen or have you ever noticed in the scriptures that G-D of Israelites revealed Him self in a flesh?

The time that God visited Abraham in the company of two angels and was provided with food.

 

[Muffled]

Like my mom used to say. Jesus did not say "MY father in heaven." did he?
besides, the words writed in that book are just words, so we will not know wat jesus said untill he says it. if it is true and shall be said at all.

Yes He did say it in the prayer He taught His disciples.

This is the case because Jesus in me reaffirms His word in the Bible.

 

[Muffled]

Yep yep. Floated right on up there.
Gods cannot die or sacrifice themselves to themselves because their creations do exactly what they were created to do.

Any one that believes in miracles of all kinds should try growing up.
Come back when you are 12.

Regards
DL

You have absolutely no evidence to back up your speculation.

I am growing up into having a more firm belief in miracles. A child doesn't know where his Christmas gifts come from but an adult does. But you seem to think it is more adult to believe there aren't any Christmas gifts. For that reason you are still living in a fantasy world.

 

[Greatest I am]

so far as Jesus' divinity, the Gospels do record Jesus making a number of statements about Himself, as well as doing certain things which point to His divinity (as opposed to His being a mere man).

He never says He is God, yet He identifies Himself with the Father, and forgives sins, something only God can do. He calls Himself with a variety of titles and names denoting Godliness, reveals that He existed in and with God before the world was made, and declares that we are to honour Him as we honour the Father.

it is also written that if one does not have the Son, they do not have the Father, either. one can read these things and still come away unconvinced of Jesus' divinity, or one can read them and come to the understanding that Jesus truly is the Father come down in history as a Man.

Jesus does not say it, but He does demonstate it, that He is both Lord, and God. not all of God, as the Father still reigned in heaven. but certainly the Person, power, holiness, and authority of God come down to earth in human flesh.

Hogwash.

Man is the only one here who shows any kind of dominion. God is completely absent.

Authority is to be shown. Only man shows his. God does not.

The difinitive answer to the divinity is that he could not be a God because Gods, by definition, cannot die.

Show how a God can die.

Regards
DL

 

[Greatest I am]

God's work is perfect, but did his perfect creation, which was gifted with voluntary free will, obey God? God told of the bad consequences of disobedience to his goodness.

Doesn't Deuteronomy (30:19; 32:5) show us people have a choice whether to do what is wrong or right in God's eyes?

Since the Bible is silent about why the earth needed to be cleansed of even the animals we do not know the details. Perhaps some sort of disease could have been spreading that would have infected all of them.

Whatever the reason, God has justice and he will always carry out his justice for the righteous as he showed to Abraham starting at verse 23 of Genesis chapter 18.

When Jesus comes in Action (Isaiah11:4; Rev. 19:11,15) it is not the animal life that will be destroyed by the words of Jesus mouth. Jesus sharp words will only execute the wicked at that time, followed by Jesus ushering in peace on earth, peace not only to animal kind (Isaiah 65:25;11:6-9), but peace on earth to men of goodwill.

If perfection can become or do imperfection, then your idiot God is a good example of this at work when He has to destroy what is supposed to be perfect works.

Keep your loser God, I will follow the one that gets things right the first time and does not have to kill off His perfect works.

Regards
DL

 

[arimoff]

The time that God visited Abraham in the company of two angels and was provided with food.

thats what it says in the NT? the Torah doesn't say it was G-D it specially says they were all angles. check your facts and try again.

 

[Greatest I am]

thats what it says in the NT? the Torah doesn't say it was G-D it specially says they were all angles. check your facts and try again.

The Abraham story shows that God does not approve of the sacrifice of a son.
Strange that further in the Bible, God is shown as approving doing just that.

This should prove that Jesus was not a barbaric blood sacrifice and that God would reject such if it were offered. Why have you forsaken me.

Because it is wrong.

Regards
DL

 

[rusra02]

The Abraham story shows that God does not approve of the sacrifice of a son.
Strange that further in the Bible, God is shown as approving doing just that.

This should prove that Jesus was not a barbaric blood sacrifice and that God would reject such if it were offered. Why have you forsaken me.

Because it is wrong.

Regards
DL

The account of Abraham and Isaac shows in human terms what a sacrifice it was for God to make in providing a ransom for sin. The role Abraham played in this regard helps us to see how difficult it must have been for Jehovah God to ‘give his only-begotten Son, in order that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life.’—John 3:16; Matthew 20:28.
Jehovah arranged to have a perfect man voluntarily sacrifice his life. According to Romans 6:23, “the wages sin pays is death.” In sacrificing his life, the ransomer would “taste death for every man.” In other words, he would pay the wage for Adam’s sin. (Hebrews 2:9; 2 Corinthians 5:21; 1 Peter 2:24) This would have profound legal consequences. By nullifying the death sentence upon Adam’s obedient offspring, the ransom would cut off the destructive power of sin right at its source.—Romans 5:16.
By providing for the payment of the ransom, even at painful cost to himself, Jehovah affirmed his unwavering adherence to his own perfect justice.—Genesis 22:7, 8, 11-13; Hebrews 11:17; James 1:17.
Rather than being 'wrong' as you say, the ransom is the greatest expression of love ever made by God and his Son. (John 3:16)

 

[Greatest I am]

The account of Abraham and Isaac shows in human terms what a sacrifice it was for God to make in providing a ransom for sin. The role Abraham played in this regard helps us to see how difficult it must have been for Jehovah God to ‘give his only-begotten Son, in order that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life.’—John 3:16; Matthew 20:28.
Jehovah arranged to have a perfect man voluntarily sacrifice his life. According to Romans 6:23, “the wages sin pays is death.” In sacrificing his life, the ransomer would “taste death for every man.” In other words, he would pay the wage for Adam’s sin. (Hebrews 2:9; 2 Corinthians 5:21; 1 Peter 2:24) This would have profound legal consequences. By nullifying the death sentence upon Adam’s obedient offspring, the ransom would cut off the destructive power of sin right at its source.—Romans 5:16.
By providing for the payment of the ransom, even at painful cost to himself, Jehovah affirmed his unwavering adherence to his own perfect justice.—Genesis 22:7, 8, 11-13; Hebrews 11:17; James 1:17.
Rather than being 'wrong' as you say, the ransom is the greatest expression of love ever made by God and his Son. (John 3:16)

Hogwash.

Any God that makes a plan that includes the death of His innocent son to Himself is an idiot God. The death of an innocent is never good justice.

Gods cannot die. To think that God is so uncivilized that He would even accept a blood sacrifice is the product of a barbaric mind.

God is not that much of an idiot.

Regards
DL

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Hogwash.

Any God that makes a plan that includes the death of His innocent son to Himself is an idiot God. The death of an innocent is never good justice.

Gods cannot die. To think that God is so uncivilized that He would even accept a blood sacrifice is the product of a barbaric mind.

God is not that much of an idiot.

Regards
DL

How long was Adam to be faithful to God, wasn't it forever?
Adam proved unfaithful, and Satan challenged no one would be faithful.
Satan could conclude that if No one would remain faithful then God would have to see things his way.

Adam had one thing to obey about eating the fruit and failed.
Whereas, Jesus remained faithful under the severest conditions that Satan,
as the god of this world of badness, put him through thus showing it was no hardship for Adam to remain faithful.

Was God's purpose to have his Son's death to himself? No. Adam as our family head chose his course of action and that resulted in us being born imperfect. Because we are imperfect we sin whether we wish it or not. If we could stop sinning we would not die. Since we can't, we die and no one can resurrect oneself or another so we need someone to balance the scales of justice for us and pay the price for our sinful imperfection. Only God's perfect faithful Son could pay that price, and that is why Satan had to do everything within his power to stop Jesus from dying for us.

The passage of time has allowed time for our births, and to prove Satan a liar, and in the end we benefit and will be rewarded with life in human perfection that Adam originally had. Jesus has the reward too of have some bought from earth to be ruling in heaven with him and be righteously ruling over the meek that will inherit the earth.

 

[arimoff]

The Abraham story shows that God does not approve of the sacrifice of a son.
Strange that further in the Bible, God is shown as approving doing just that.

This should prove that Jesus was not a barbaric blood sacrifice and that God would reject such if it were offered. Why have you forsaken me.

Because it is wrong.

Regards
DL

what is sacrifice of his son has to do with 3 angles visiting Abraham? He didn't sacrifice his son, it was a test that he survived, and what story are you talking about later?

Jesus as a sacrifice doesn't make sense anyways.

 

[Muffled]

thats what it says in the NT? the Torah doesn't say it was G-D it specially says they were all angles. check your facts and try again.

Gen 18:1 ¶ And Jehovah appeared unto him by the oaks of Mamre, as he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day;

I suppose you could be excused for being ignorant of the Torah becasue you spend too much time listening to orthodox brainwashing.

I suppose you could say that the three men who arrived didn't include God if you could prove it. We find that the three men ask about Sarah in v9 but in v10 it says "He said" in v11 which doesn't refer back to the three but back to Jehovah. Then
Gen 18:13 And Jehovah said unto Abraham, Wherefore did Sarah laugh,

 

[Muffled]

what is sacrifice of his son has to do with 3 angles visiting Abraham? He didn't sacrifice his son, it was a test that he survived, and what story are you talking about later?

Jesus as a sacrifice doesn't make sense anyways.

If Jesus were just a man it would make no sense becasue God gets rid of men as He pleases. However Jesus as God in the flesh brings home the verse that says "For God so loved the world that He sent His only begotten son." How can God prove to you that He really loves you any more than laying down His life for you.

Secondly there were the Sadducees who said there was no resurrection of the dead. For God to prove there was a resurrection He had to resurrect people and since He was laying His life down anyway, He further illustrates this by rising from the dead Himself.

 

[Greatest I am]

How long was Adam to be faithful to God, wasn't it forever?
Adam proved unfaithful, and Satan challenged no one would be faithful.
Satan could conclude that if No one would remain faithful then God would have to see things his way.

Adam had one thing to obey about eating the fruit and failed.
Whereas, Jesus remained faithful under the severest conditions that Satan,
as the god of this world of badness, put him through thus showing it was no hardship for Adam to remain faithful.

Was God's purpose to have his Son's death to himself? No. Adam as our family head chose his course of action and that resulted in us being born imperfect. Because we are imperfect we sin whether we wish it or not. If we could stop sinning we would not die. Since we can't, we die and no one can resurrect oneself or another so we need someone to balance the scales of justice for us and pay the price for our sinful imperfection. Only God's perfect faithful Son could pay that price, and that is why Satan had to do everything within his power to stop Jesus from dying for us.

The passage of time has allowed time for our births, and to prove Satan a liar, and in the end we benefit and will be rewarded with life in human perfection that Adam originally had. Jesus has the reward too of have some bought from earth to be ruling in heaven with him and be righteously ruling over the meek that will inherit the earth.

Literalists are so funny.

No more time for silly people who believe in a true Satan and a real talking snake.

Regards
DL

 

[Greatest I am]

what is sacrifice of his son has to do with 3 angles visiting Abraham? He didn't sacrifice his son, it was a test that he survived, and what story are you talking about later?

Jesus as a sacrifice doesn't make sense anyways.

I agree.

The Abraham reference was to show that God did not approve of the sacrifice of sons. He set a precedent by stopping Abraham. He will not then turn around and have His own son sacrificed to Himself. that would be stupid.

Regards
DL

 

[saltandlight]

In Isaiah 53:10, it says the Lord Himself will be the guilt offering.
In Numbers 35- the death of the high priest can be the atonement sacrifice for sins.
In 2 Samuel 8:18-David's Sons are priests.
In Zechariah 6:11-13; it mentions placing a crown on the high priest, Joshua (or Yeshua/Jesus)
In the Babylonian Talmud, Yoma 39a- There are 3 signs for sacrifices
When the signs were negative, the sacrifices weren't accepted, when they were positive, they were.
Then, during the last 40 years before the 2nd temple in Jerusalem was destroyed, all 3 signs were negative, each and every time.
Jesus was crucified in AD 30
Temple destroyed in AD 70
40 years difference
Therefore God did not accept sacrifices as Jesus/Yeshua was the final atonement/sacrifice as prophesied.

 

[arimoff]

Gen 18:1 ¶ And Jehovah appeared unto him by the oaks of Mamre, as he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day;

I suppose you could be excused for being ignorant of the Torah becasue you spend too much time listening to orthodox brainwashing.

I suppose you could say that the three men who arrived didn't include God if you could prove it. We find that the three men ask about Sarah in v9 but in v10 it says "He said" in v11 which doesn't refer back to the three but back to Jehovah. Then
Gen 18:13 And Jehovah said unto Abraham, Wherefore did Sarah laugh,

First I want to say maybe to you its brain washing but they do know more about Torah then you or your church, where did you even come from? how dare you claim you know better then those who made it? you don't even speak hebrew to tell me what it says there, neither you all any kind like you.

It is stupid on your part, it is the same thing as telling me your real name is such and such, I know better how your parents named you.

You can believe in 10 Jesuses for all I care, but I if you take Torah please respect its laws and traditions and mainly its ideology and then go create any g-d you want but don't come back to those who live by Torah claiming they are stupid and don't know, they live by it for centuries and some idiot comes and claims them brain washing.