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Did Jesus say he was God???

Dirty Penguin

Master Of Ceremony
Yes He is more than capable of doing it that way, but it was the people who wouldnt take to heart the forgiving power of God and they would slip back into their old ways after God forgave them. The couldnt keep HIs covenant so He brought about a new covenant. They couldnt trust in God to be their king and they wanted to be like the other nations so God gave them a king. So instead of God constantly having to forgive and correct them and remind them of the covenant, He came Himself, establiished a the new covenant He promised back in Jeremiah, He gave them a real King and High priest.


Interesting but the world today is in worse condition then it was back then. If "God" came down to institute a new convenant then his mission was failure. But as far as your bible goes "god" does not indicate that he came down in the flesh. Sending Yeshua....Yes......Yeshua acknowledging being sent......Yes.....

Not that God can get weary but cant you see how if it was you, you would get tired of always forgiving them and giving them kings who sometimes even led them even further into sin?

If I were "God" how could I get tired or loose my patience with my creation?

Wouldnt you, if you were God, just come down yourself, establish a new covenant, tell them that you are their true king, their last and final king?

No because it would be illogical to do so. If I were an omnipotent and omniscient god then I would have simply made everyone (all good). Then again....if I were "God" what would be the point? Anything I as "God" did but expected my creation to submit to my will because I said so would be ludicrous. What would be my purpose as an all knowing "God" to create humans and give them commandments knowing full well they would not adhere to them.....and why would I punish them or even threaten to punish them if I already knew what the end result would be eons before I created everything?

Now since you're asking my opinion that's what I'm giving you. My personal view of your god is the he/she/it is insane. It's very insanity is displayed all throughout the OT. I personally feel this quotes sums it up........

"The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results". - Albert Einstein

Don't let my personal view of your god detract from the thread theme. And that is....Nowhere throughout the four gospels does the biblical Yeshua give any indication he is "God".......
 

look3467

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
At verse 20 Jesus was addressing his enemies the religious leaders.
It is not until verse 22 that Jesus addresses his disciples.

So the kingdom could not be literally within the false Pharisees, but Jesus was right there in front of them, within their midst, as the future king designate of God's royal kingdom.

Luke 19:12 to 15 - Doesn't Jesus give an illustration about himself as to having to go away to a far country [heaven] in order to first receive the kingdom and then return? Jesus does not become the crowned acting king of God's kingdom or royal government until Psalm 110:1 is fulfilled.
-See also Matthew 25:14.

You got the right point in that while Jesus was not yet ascended, He was in their midst.
Being in their midst included without exception those coming into contact with Him.

But as you know, after Jesus had ascended, the Holy Spirit descended and became the kingdom that is within you. (Comforter)

Prior to Jesus God spoke through a very few, but after Jesus, anyone can speak about God if their souls are born again.

Blessings, AJ
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
It seems Jesus may have been saying something along the lines of what Krishna told Arjuna in the Gita. Maybe Jesus was telling people that god is within all of us.
That is a nice concept however presence does not necessarily mean that the soul is in hamony with God's goodness.

I was in my hometown when my high school had a prom but I wasn't at the prom. It wasn't much consolation for me that I was in the same town.
 

AK4

Well-Known Member
Interesting but the world today is in worse condition then it was back then. If "God" came down to institute a new convenant then his mission was failure.

You may be confused in what my beliefs are and that i may be presenting what i said from a trinitarian point of view. This is not the case. God [the Father] is not a man, Jesus can be called God because His God gave Him all power and authority and so on and so on. But this isnt a trinity thread so back to my point. You say "the world today is in worse condition then it was back then", this is exactly what Jesus said would happen "as in the days of Noah, so shall it be at the end of the age". His mission wasnt/isnt a failure because its spiritual and for this age, just as He called out a nation back in the OT that was to be kings and priests to the rest of the world this is what He is doing now with the new covenant except now its not exclusive to just one people but this nation that He is making now to be kings and priests is made up of all kinds of people. And since its spiritual and not meant to be an outwardly display [except for good works] most dont notice or know this is happening.

But as far as your bible goes "god" does not indicate that he came down in the flesh. Sending Yeshua....Yes......Yeshua acknowledging being sent......Yes.....

You are partly right. God the Father can not come down or be fashioned into something, but the Lord God [Jesus] was created by God [the Father] and He as God, representing God, in place of God or the Antipas, it does mention Him coming down in the flesh in several places. I have one reference now, the second and third witnesses are alluding me right now but i know they are there. Zechariah 14:1-7 is one place this is mentioned. The Lord God, who does Jesus say this is? Well i have covered that in other threads like "Jesus is God?"

If I were "God" how could I get tired or loose my patience with my creation?

You took that literally. I did say "Not that God can get weary". He never lost patience with em because after all He made em that way purposely. It was all part of His plan. Its just from our perspective it would seem this way.

No because it would be illogical to do so. If I were an omnipotent and omniscient god then I would have simply made everyone (all good).

See and this is the thought of probably 99% of all people. They miss the whole point of why God created and what is the meaning of this life, this experience. It is actually the opposite of what you and the rest of the world think is logical. Tell me is it logical to know hot without knowing what cold is? Everyone can answer that one but when it comes to good and evil their logic just disappears.

Its plainly told to everyone and everyone knows it [the menaing of life], its just nobody believes it, believes God when He said it. Here i will give it again but you wont find this is those KJV bibles.


Ge 1:26Then God said, "Let Us be making [notice this is a process] man in Our image, according to Our likeness;And creating [not created as in done or finished] is God humanity in His [spiritual] Image. In the Image of God He creates it. Male and female He [spiritually] creates them" Gen. 1:27). ...
and what is being made into the image of God? Here the Gods answer

Ge 3:22 -Then the LORD God said, "Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil;


So which is more logical? Somehow creating something that is all good and never knew any evil and this creation would know what good and evil is or creating something that is gaining both the knowledge of good and evil while placing them in an experience of evil [Ecc 1:13] and later promising them all will be good.


Then again....if I were "God" what would be the point?

Ask yourself, since you are God and selfishness is a bad thing to you, what is it you must do now? That should answer your question.

Anything I as "God" did but expected my creation to submit to my will because I said so would be ludicrous.

If you are the embodiment of all good, knowledge, wisdom, pleasures and you creating something to be in your image/to be like youthen submitting to your will is not ludicris

What would be my purpose as an all knowing "God" to create humans and give them commandments knowing full well they would not adhere to them

See this is where the doctrine of freewill has destroyed the message from God. Ask that same question again but this time think on it with knowing that freewill is a myth.

.....and why would I punish them or even threaten to punish them if I already knew what the end result would be eons before I created everything?

You do this because of the doctrine of freewill that you created. Your creation will feel like everything they do is of their own and not realise that you were really the one leading them this way or that way. So since they truly believe that by their freewill they did this or that, you will hold them accountable, although ultimately you know you are responsible.

This knowledge of God and how He works is hardly known out there.

Now since you're asking my opinion that's what I'm giving you. My personal view of your god is the he/she/it is insane. It's very insanity is displayed all throughout the OT. I personally feel this quotes sums it up........

"The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results". - Albert Einstein

Don't let my personal view of your god detract from the thread theme. And that is....Nowhere throughout the four gospels does the biblical Yeshua give any indication he is "God".......

Yeah weve debated this in another thread and i guess one will stick to there guns if they want. But yes, the plan of God does seem like insanity to those who dont know or understand His plan. If i didnt know what i know now i would say the same thing but given the eyes to see, i see the all the wisdom behind it all, why all the false doctrines, evils, why He only spoke in parables, why there are athiests and multiple religions etc etc etc. When you come to see it, and one day you will, you will be in awe like all the rest who have.
 

AK4

Well-Known Member
If I were "God" how could I get tired or loose my patience with my creation?

Notice this from the OT what God says about the only people He revealed Himself to.
Isaiah chapter 1

Rebellion of God's People
1 The vision of Isaiah the son of Amoz concerning Judah R1 and Jerusalem, which he saw during the reigns F1 of Uzziah, R2 Jotham, R3 Ahaz R4 and Hezekiah, R5 kings of Judah.
2 Listen, R6 O heavens, and hear, O earth; R7
For the LORD speaks,
"Sons R8 I have reared and brought up,
But they have revolted R9 against Me.
3 "An ox knows its owner,
And a donkey its master's manger,
But Israel does R10 not know,
My people do R11 not understand."

4 Alas, sinful nation,
People weighed down with iniquity,
Offspring R12 F2 of evildoers,
Sons who act R13 corruptly!
They have abandoned R14 the LORD,
They have despised R15 the Holy One of Israel,
They have turned away from F3 Him.​


Now here is what i wanted you to really notice and compare it to what i said in the above​



5 Where will you be stricken again,
[why should you be BEATEN anymore? [NIV]]
[Why do you seek further BEATENS? [NRSV]

As you continue R16 in your rebellion?
The whole head is sick R17
And the whole heart is faint.
6 From R18 the sole of the foot even to the head
There is nothing R19 sound in it,
Only bruises, welts and raw wounds,
Not R20 pressed out or bandaged,
Nor softened with oil.​

7 Your land R21 is desolate,
Your cities are burned with fire,
Your fields--strangers are devouring them in your presence;
It is desolation, as overthrown by strangers.
8 The daughter of Zion is left like a shelter in a vineyard,
Like a watchman's hut in a cucumber field, like a besieged city.
9 Unless R22 the LORD of hosts
Had left us a few survivors, R23
We would be like Sodom, R24
We would be like Gomorrah.​
God Has Had Enough

10 Hear the R25 word of the LORD,
You rulers of Sodom; R26
Give ear to the instruction of our God,
You people of Gomorrah.
11 "What R27 are your multiplied sacrifices to Me?"
Says the LORD.
"I have F4 had enough of burnt offerings of rams
And the fat of fed cattle;
And I take no pleasure in the blood of bulls, lambs or goats.
12 "When you come to R28 appear before Me,
Who requires of F5 you this trampling of My courts?
13 "Bring your worthless offerings no longer,
Incense R29 is an abomination to Me.
New R30 moon and sabbath, the calling R31 of assemblies--
I cannot endure R32 iniquity and the solemn assembly.
14 "I hate your new moon festivals and your appointed R33 feasts,
They have become a burden to Me;
I am weary R34 of bearing them.
15 "So when you spread R35 out your hands in prayer,
I R36 will hide My eyes from you;
Yes, even though you multiply R37 prayers,
I will not listen.
Your R38 hands are covered F6 with blood.​

16 "Wash R39 yourselves, make R40 yourselves clean;
Remove R41 the evil of your deeds from My sight.
Cease R42 to do evil,
17 Learn to do good;
Seek R43 justice,
Reprove the ruthless,
Defend R44 F7 the orphan,
Plead for the widow.​
"Let Us Reason"

18 "Come now, and let R45 us reason together,"
Says the LORD,
"Though R46 your sins are as scarlet,
They will be as white as snow;
Though they are red like crimson,
They will be like wool.
19 "If R47 you consent and obey,
You will eat R48 the best of the land;
20 "But if you refuse and rebel,
You will be devoured R49 by the sword."
Truly, the R50 mouth of the LORD has spoken.​

Now you said "If I were an omnipotent and omniscient god then I would have simply made everyone (all good). Then again....if I were "God" what would be the point?" in response to what i said​
Quote: Wouldnt you, if you were God, just come down yourself, establish a new covenant, tell them that you are their true king, their last and final king?

Now God says right here that He is tired of almost all they do. So right God is showing those who reason and come with logic like you that He is the opposite of what mans reasonings. I could quote all the verses that mentions mans wisdom but in all respect i think you get the picture.

Originally Posted by AK4
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Wouldnt you, if you were God, just come down yourself, establish a new covenant, tell them that you are their true king, their last and final king?
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
You got the right point in that while Jesus was not yet ascended, He was in their midst.
Being in their midst included without exception those coming into contact with Him.

But as you know, after Jesus had ascended, the Holy Spirit descended and became the kingdom that is within you. (Comforter)

Prior to Jesus God spoke through a very few, but after Jesus, anyone can speak about God if their souls are born again.

Blessings, AJ

Jesus and Jehovah are the Paraclete and King within us not the kingdom. His presence establishes His Kingdom within us.

There is no reference to descent:
Ac 1:8 But ye shall receive power, when the Holy Spirit is come upon you: and ye shall be my witnesses both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea and Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.
 

look3467

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Luk 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

If one is born into a family, we are part of that family.

When we are born again, we become a member of the heavenly Kingdom on earth.

What heaven on earth means is God has our back.

Blessings, AJ
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
You got the right point in that while Jesus was not yet ascended, He was in their midst.
Being in their midst included without exception those coming into contact with Him.
But as you know, after Jesus had ascended, the Holy Spirit descended and became the kingdom that is within you. (Comforter)
Prior to Jesus God spoke through a very few, but after Jesus, anyone can speak about God if their souls are born again.
Blessings, AJ

Jesus gave an illustration to his followers about how he would have to go far away because the kingdom would not appear immediately, and Jesus would not return until he received the kingdom.
Compare Matthew 25:14 with Luke 19:11-27 has not come to pass in fulfillment of Rev 19:11,14,15; Isaiah 11:4. See Matt 25:31,32.
When does Jesus appear in kingdom glory- Matthew 16:27; 25:31,32?
 

EtuMalku

Abn Iblis ابن إبليس
Oh stop all of this!. . . 215 pages and not one iota of proof that JC said 'anything' much less even existed! Silly little book written after His death and abridged by a callous politician for the sake of control! Not to mention an old old story about a Dying/Resurrecting God-Man . . . ewww, at least Clash of the Titans had updated Special EFX!!

EM
 

look3467

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Jesus gave an illustration to his followers about how he would have to go far away because the kingdom would not appear immediately, and Jesus would not return until he received the kingdom.
Compare Matthew 25:14 with Luke 19:11-27 has not come to pass in fulfillment of Rev 19:11,14,15; Isaiah 11:4. See Matt 25:31,32.
When does Jesus appear in kingdom glory- Matthew 16:27; 25:31,32?

Jesus was yet speaking, meaning that He spoke with an eye to the cross, after which He would return in spirit.

Being not yet spiritual, the people expected an earthly kingdom, thus their understanding was not yet coupled with the spirit of God as is today with you and I.

Even today, are many whose understanding is yet looking through a glass darkly.

I want you to look at this next verse and study it: Dan 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

There’s allot to see to understand in that one verse.
In that verse you could see a picture of all prophecy fulfilled.

The book of Revelation is about what Jesus went through as conqueror, redeemer in fulfilling all the prophecies.

The very first verse states that: Rev 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ…….is about Him.

Jesus said “It is finished”, and rested.

Blessings, AJ

 

look3467

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Oh stop all of this!. . . 215 pages and not one iota of proof that JC said 'anything' much less even existed! Silly little book written after His death and abridged by a callous politician for the sake of control! Not to mention an old old story about a Dying/Resurrecting God-Man . . . ewww, at least Clash of the Titans had updated Special EFX!!

EM

I saw the movie and knowing what I know about the bible, I could see similarities.

But you see, the bible has a salutation, a body and an ending, with the hope of mankind having life after this one.

And to be honest with you, I forgot what it was all about because it offered me no hope.

As for Jesus, He is real to me offering me, just as I am, life after this one as hope.

Blessings, AJ
 

Dirty Penguin

Master Of Ceremony
Oh stop all of this!. . . 215 pages and not one iota of proof that JC said 'anything' much less even existed! Silly little book written after His death and abridged by a callous politician for the sake of control! Not to mention an old old story about a Dying/Resurrecting God-Man . . . ewww, at least Clash of the Titans had updated Special EFX!!

EM

I agree......:cool:
 

rusra02

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Oh stop all of this!. . . 215 pages and not one iota of proof that JC said 'anything' much less even existed! Silly little book written after His death and abridged by a callous politician for the sake of control! Not to mention an old old story about a Dying/Resurrecting God-Man . . . ewww, at least Clash of the Titans had updated Special EFX!!

EM

That silly little book, as you called it, has changed history, made millions better people, saved countless lives that would otherwise have been lost, and became the all time best seller in history. It is the only book that explains where we came from, why we suffer, and what hope we have. It is God's Word, and it is through the Bible we come to know the true God, what He has done, and what He will yet do.
The Bible shows each of us up for what we are inside. As Hebrews 4:12 says: "For the word of God is alive and exerts power and is sharper than any two-edged sword and pierces even to the dividing of soul and spirit, and of joints and [their] marrow, and [is] able to discern thoughts and intentions of [the] heart."
BTW, Jesus was not a god-man. And the evidence for his historicity is evident to any reasonable person.
 

Heneni

Miss Independent
I appologise if somebody has already said this, forgive me i didnt feel up to reading through 151 pages of stuff.:p

If I wanted to prove who i was god, there would be no point in me going around saying 'im god'. I would have no authority to do such a thing. And only the nut jobs would believe me anyway.

So i cant verify my own identity. Neither can the nut jobs that believe im god.

In the same way...jesus could not verify that he was god by saying 'i am god', and neither could his followers verify his identity. There needs to be a higher authority.

Now my father, or mother can verify or not that i am indeed heneni. So...jesus's father verified his identity. By speaking , well thundering from heaven, that he is his son. And of course then there is the mount of transfiguration.

Now does that mean that jesus is god? Yes, because all celestial beings with the same weight of glory are of the same kind. Angels have a certain amount of glory and they are all angels. And mankind has a certain weight of glory and are of another kind.

God the father's glory is the same as his son's glory. As a man and his son has the same weight of glory, being both gloriously human.

Now while jesus was on this earth, he was like a god becoming a slug or a crab. Thats how far he had to sink to be born on this earth. He gave up his external glory, but kept the intrinsic glory, thereby still being the son of god, and therefore God, verified by the father from heaven, who really was the only authority to verify jesus's identity.
 

look3467

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
So i cant verify my own identity. Neither can the nut jobs that believe im god.

Yes you can! You are who you are in character and personality a god in that you can decide for yourself what you want in this life making you in control of your desires.

You are an independent entity as a god, but not God or as God.

Blessings, AJ
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
In the same way...jesus could not verify that he was god by saying 'i am god', and neither could his followers verify his identity. There needs to be a higher authority.
Now my father, or mother can verify or not that i am indeed heneni. So...jesus's father verified his identity. By speaking , well thundering from heaven, that he is his son. And of course then there is the mount of transfiguration.
Now does that mean that jesus is god? Yes, because all celestial beings with the same weight of glory are of the same kind. Angels have a certain amount of glory and they are all angels. And mankind has a certain weight of glory and are of another kind.
God the father's glory is the same as his son's glory. As a man and his son has the same weight of glory, being both gloriously human.
Now while jesus was on this earth, he was like a god becoming a slug or a crab. Thats how far he had to sink to be born on this earth. He gave up his external glory, but kept the intrinsic glory, thereby still being the son of god, and therefore God, verified by the father from heaven, who really was the only authority to verify jesus's identity.

Since Jesus did not disagree, didn't Jesus followers verify his identify?

For the record, or John bare record. at John 1v34 that Jesus is the Son of God.
John 1v49 Nathanael believed Jesus is the Son of God
John 6v69 Peter, as spokesman for the 12, said Jesus, as Christ, is the Son of the living God.
John 11v27 Martha believed Jesus was the Son of God
John 19v7 the Jews thought Jesus ought to die because Jesus made himself the Son of God.
John 10v36 the Jews thought Jesus blasphemed because Jesus said he was the Son of God.

In a family arrangement isn't it brothers that are equals.
At John 14v28 Jesus as Son said his Father is greater than Jesus.

While still on earth Jesus said at John 20v17 that his Father was his God.
Decades after being resurrected to heaven at Rev 2v18 Jesus still considers himself to be the Son of God and at 3v12 Jesus still believes he has a God over him.
Rev 3v14 stating Jesus is the beginning of the creation by God.
According to Psalm 90v2 God had no beginning. Only God was before the beginning. No where does it say Jesus was before the beginning.

God was not firstborn in the heavens.
Jesus was 'firstborn' [Col 1v15] in the heavens.

Adam [Luke 3v38] was a son of God.
Also, the fallen angels [Gen 6vs2,4] are sons of God.
Yet they are not equals.
One is of the invisible heavenly realm
One is of the visible material earthly realm.

Jesus [1Thess4v16] does not have God's voice, but the Archangel's voice.
 

reloadthis

Member
If he was God, then why did he yell out, "God why have you forsaken me?" And why did he struggle with battling demons and so forth. Also, if he was God, why would he call himself the son of God? Why would he call God, Father if he were God himself? If he were God, why would he pray and say, "Our father who art in heaven..." If he were God, he'd just say, Dear me...or simply Our father if he was talking about his divine father rather than Joseph who spawned him on earth.
 

look3467

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Zec 12:8 In that day shall the LORD defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; and he that is feeble among them at that day shall be as David; and the house of David shall be as God, as the angel of the LORD before them.

In that day = is the day when God, as God, would delver mankind from it's destiny with eternal death.

he that is feeble among them = Amongst all of what was expected of the coming Messiah, the opposite of them all, was as one feeble among them.

Merriam Webster online dictionary Feeble =
1 a : markedly lacking in strength b : indicating weakness
2 a : deficient in qualities or resources that indicate vigor, authority, force, or efficiency b : inadequate, inferior

Evidenced by : Mat 27:42 He saved others; himself he cannot save. If he be the King of Israel, let him now come down from the cross, and we will believe him.

And: Luk 23:35 And the people stood beholding. And the rulers also with them derided him, saying, He saved others; let him save himself, if he be Christ, the chosen of God.


shall be as David = Why as David?

1Ki 9:4 And if thou wilt walk before me, as David thy father walked, in integrity of heart, and in uprightness, to do according to all that I have commanded thee, and wilt keep my statutes and my judgments:
1Ki 9:5 Then I will establish the throne of thy kingdom upon Israel for ever, as I promised to David thy father, saying, There shall not fail thee a man upon the throne of Israel.

That man promised to David was David's own son that: 2Sa 11:5 And the woman conceived, and sent and told David, and said, I am with child.

2Sa 12:18 And it came to pass on the seventh day, that the child died. And the servants of David feared to tell him that the child was dead: for they said, Behold, while the child was yet alive, we spake unto him, and he would not hearken unto our voice: how will he then vex himself, if we tell him that the child is dead?

Fast forward from : 3975 BC, to BAPTISM IS 25 AD. TIME = 4,000 YEARS.
The day Jesus was declared by God : Mat 3:17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

Joh 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

Who but God alone can take away the sin of the world? What man? A man?

A man with this credentials: Col 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

"Let him cast the first stone that is without sin" is who amongst all of us: save God?

The words "as God" means: In behalf of God, action is accomplished with full Godhead authority, "as God".

Therefore, Jesus "as God" acted in full authority as God in the forgiveness of the sin of the world.

Thus, being "as God", there is no other name under the heavens by which mankind's sin can be forgiven, save God Himself as Jesus.

Therefore, for the salvation of our souls by the forgiveness of our sins, Jesus is God!

Unto what other man in human history is this accounted to, that should be called the son of God, acting as God, and loving the whole world by forgiveness?

The bible is in part written as to to convey a message not necessarily seen by the exact word meanings, by the the use of words, numbers, objects, stories, but within those words, is hidden a message of truth.

That is sought out by asking God via the Holy Spirit in prayer.

Blessings, AJ
 

look3467

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Metaphor as foundational to our conceptual system

Cognitive linguists emphasize that metaphors serve to facilitate the understanding of one conceptual domain, typically an abstract one like 'life' or 'theories' or 'ideas', through expressions that relate to another, more familiar conceptual domain, typically a more concrete one like 'journey' or 'buildings' or 'food'. [15][16] Food for thought: we devour a book of raw facts, try to digest them, stew over them, let them simmer on the back-burner, regurgitate them in discussions, cook up explanations, hoping they do not seem half-baked. Theories as buildings: we establish a foundation for them, a framework, support them with strong arguments, buttressing them with facts, hoping they will stand. Life as journey: some of us travel hopefully, others seem to have no direction, many lose their way.>>>
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The story of Abraham, true, yet a metaphor of God, Jesus and us in one picture story.

Likewise are the many stories in the bible that need be viewed in comparison to the works of God, as picture stories, the designed meanings in metaphors as exposed only through faith in God via His Holy Spirit revelations.

If one sees God as a devourer in a story, then He must be one, but if we see the word devourer as some other meaning as consuming in love, then we shall see the true meaning.

I.e. "God is a consuming fire" looked at as a destroyer of souls, or a saver of souls?

Which best describes the nature of God, based not only on that one statement, but on the bible as a whole?

That is where an individual judgment call is made, to determine this topics question, "Did Jesus say He was God?

Blessings, AJ
 

Dirty Penguin

Master Of Ceremony
If he was God, then why did he yell out, "God why have you forsaken me?" And why did he struggle with battling demons and so forth. Also, if he was God, why would he call himself the son of God? Why would he call God, Father if he were God himself? If he were God, why would he pray and say, "Our father who art in heaven..." If he were God, he'd just say, Dear me...or simply Our father if he was talking about his divine father rather than Joseph who spawned him on earth.

Because according to the bible he wasn't. The idea of the biblical Yeshua (Jesus) being "God" was made up....
 
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