leibowde84
Veteran Member
The law of the penteteuch?
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Did Jesus tell people to be completely adherent to the Torah 'laws'?
- Thread starter Desert Snake
- Start date
James advised the following:
Acts 15:19 Therefore my judgment is that we should not trouble those of the Gentiles who turn to God, 20 but should write to them to abstain from the things polluted by idols, and from sexual immorality, and from what has been strangled, and from blood.
leibowde84
Veteran Member
That was James, not Jesus. and that is my point. It seems that this notion only came after Jesus death.
rosends
Well-Known Member
an interesting list -- what does he mean by "strangling" and "blood"? Are those about foods or about to being violent to people
oldbadger
Skanky Old Mongrel!
Apparently not. I was shown Acts 11 this morning, where Cephas received a vision at Joppa, telling him that in future He and Christians could eat Gentile foods.
Paul (no doubt) received all kinds of junk in visions, thus hacking at Jesus's words further.
leibowde84
Veteran Member
Right, but you agree that none of this is attributed to what Jesus wanted or did?Apparently not. I was shown Acts 11 this morning, where Cephas received a vision at Joppa, telling him that in future He and Christians could eat Gentile foods.
Paul (no doubt) received all kinds of junk in visions, thus hacking at Jesus's words further.
Jesus came as the Messiah under the law of Moses. If the Jews had accepted him he would have ruled under the law of Moses
When he was rejected as God knew he would be, he died on the cross as the sacrifice for sin and with his resurrection the covenant of the law was replace by the new covenant in his blood leaving the Jews who rejected him trying to continue in the law of Moses which God no longer accepts for salvation
The gospels of Mathew Mark and Luke are Jesus presenting himself to Israel as the Messiah under the law of Moses.
The Gospel of John is presentig Jesus as Author of the New Covenat
When he was rejected as God knew he would be, he died on the cross as the sacrifice for sin and with his resurrection the covenant of the law was replace by the new covenant in his blood leaving the Jews who rejected him trying to continue in the law of Moses which God no longer accepts for salvation
The gospels of Mathew Mark and Luke are Jesus presenting himself to Israel as the Messiah under the law of Moses.
The Gospel of John is presentig Jesus as Author of the New Covenat
leibowde84
Veteran Member
Did Jesus ever claim this? If so, please provide the quote from Jesus. Beyond that, it is merely putting word in Jesus' mouth, isn't it?
oldbadger
Skanky Old Mongrel!
...absolutely!
.... it's worse than cherry picking, it's simply Pauline religion.
I assume food, but yeah, I don't know.
I'm not arguing a side, just saying it's really difficult to claim certainty.
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
Yes, but it also begs the question why the apostles gradually walked away from the Law if Jesus didn't somehow create a paradigm whereas they would do that.
I'm strapped for time now, but if this thread continues, I'll post my theory as to what I think happened. I know this will keep you up tonight in anxious anticipation.
Yes, but it also begs the question why the apostles gradually walked away from the Law if Jesus didn't somehow create a paradigm whereas they would do that.
I'm strapped for time now, but if this thread continues, I'll post my theory as to what I think happened. I know this will keep you up tonight in anxious anticipation.
It may be interesting to discover if your theory holds similarities to my own
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
OK, I gotta minute, so let me put it out in brief.It may be interesting to discover if your theory holds similarities to my own
I think that Jesus likely took the position somewhat similar to some liberal Pharisee groups that felt that the Law's intent was compassion and justice. One theologian has used the term "love Pharisees" to pertain to this approach.
With this approach, the letter of the Law is trumped by the issues of compassion and justice to the point whereas that they may have believed that as long as you did those two, you've essentially done them all.
Gotta go-- but are we on the same page?
We are certainly heading in the same direction .. though our conclusions may diverge once
we arrive at them
leibowde84
Veteran Member
Jesus came as the Messiah under the law of Moses. If the Jews had accepted him he would have ruled under the law of Moses
The Pharisees taught from Moses but they didn't live it from a love motivation. The Sabbath was never changed by Jesus of the Apostles. God said a system would rise up that had a man at it's head that would change God's times and Law but not with His approval. The Sabbath from the seventh day to the first day was one of those changes. If you want to know more about this watch these.
leibowde84
Veteran Member
JacobEzra.
Dr. Greenthumb
In other words, God is a liar
For example, the Pharisees taught seventh day Sabbath observance but they didn't observe the Sabbath the way Jesus taught. They made the Sabbath more important than human needs and even more important than relieving suffering. So Jesus said things like, "Obey them in that they teach the seventh day is the Sabbath but don't observe the Sabbath the way they do". This is just one example. The Pharisees, just like many Christians today, were very ritualistic. In other words, they were more concerned with the mechanics of worshiping God, rather than the fact that someone is worshiping God. Ritualism kills the spirit.