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Did Judas do God's will?

Christian Pilgrim

Active Member
I think you mean in Exodus.

You may feel certain that Pharaoh was put outside God's kingdom forever but I am not. I only know that his heart was hard toward the Israelites and that God used this for His own glory. Pharaoh's hard heart could not circumvent God's will and, as with so many other things, God can transform anything ultimately to His own use.

Frankly that gives me hope that even the suffering we encounter in this life is not wasted but somehow is transformed.

Thanks for the correciton. Why do you think Pharaoh is in the kingdom of God, and on what basis? What do you think God meant that Pharaoh was a vessel of wrath?

Moses Returns to Egypt

Moses went back to Jethro his father-in-law and said to him, “Please let me go back to my brothers in Egypt to see whether they are still alive.” And Jethro said to Moses, “Go in peace.” And the Lord said to Moses in Midian, “Go back to Egypt, for all the men who were seeking your life are dead.” So Moses took his wife and his sons and had them ride on a donkey, and went back to the land of Egypt. And Moses took the staff of God in his hand.

And the Lord said to Moses, “When you go back to Egypt, see that you do before Pharaoh all the miracles that I have put in your power. But I will harden his heart, so that he will not let the people go. Then you shall say to Pharaoh, ‘Thus says the Lord, Israel is my firstborn son, and I say to you, “Let my son go that he may serve me.” If you refuse to let him go, behold, I will kill your firstborn son.’”
 
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Spiritone

Active Member
No, JESUS selected Judas because of his qualities. One being that he was most likely a thief, a cheat, self-centered, and looking to ride on the band wagon. Judas was on his way to hell and if (IF) Judas had REPENTED of his deeds, Judas would have received forgiveness. Judas appears to have also have been a coward. He killed himself. HEll is hell, no matter what one does or doesn't do to get there... There is the will of GOD and there is the permissive will of GOD. GOD allowed Judas to be himself.

Where do you get. 'he was MOST LIKELY a thief, etc?' Sorry but you sound like a fanatic. 'Judas was on his way to hell....' are you thinking rationally? or are you just conditioned to be tunnel-visioned? Jesus spoke to Judas before he left according to the Gnostic Gospels which I believe more than the manipulated Pauline/Roman doctrines even though they were mostly valid imho. There are clues if you read all the possibilities. If you see only one then, there you are....
In order for the prophesies to be fulfilled even Jesus had to physically arrange for his part to be fulfilled. Everyone did his/her part. It was all prophesied with no maybe this or that. Really, think about it.
 

LittleNipper

Well-Known Member
Where do you get. 'he was MOST LIKELY a thief, etc?' Sorry but you sound like a fanatic. 'Judas was on his way to hell....' are you thinking rationally? or are you just conditioned to be tunnel-visioned? Jesus spoke to Judas before he left according to the Gnostic Gospels which I believe more than the manipulated Pauline/Roman doctrines even though they were mostly valid imho. There are clues if you read all the possibilities. If you see only one then, there you are....
In order for the prophesies to be fulfilled even Jesus had to physically arrange for his part to be fulfilled. Everyone did his/her part. It was all prophesied with no maybe this or that. Really, think about it.

I get it from John 12:4-6. The Gnostic Gospels are not canon, nor are they from CHRIST.
 
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sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
I don't think God is "within us all" as in univeralism with this passage, do you?
I do. God breathed Spirit into our nostrils in creation.
Do you believe the wrath of God is applicable today?
I don't believe the wrath of God was applicable "then." Why would I believe it's applicable today?
Do you believe that faith in Christ is unecessary for individuals to be reconciled to God through Christ?
I think Jesus Christ reconciled us to God in the Incarnation. Those of us who have faith embrace God in reconciliation. Those of us who don't have faith, do not.
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
What shall we say then? Is there injustice on God's part? By no means! For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy. For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, “For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I might show my power in you, and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.” So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills. - Paul and Moses
If it doesn't depend on humans, why, then, is the onus on us to have faith, before we can be saved?

I don't think you can blend the OT, Hebraic theology put forth in Exodus with the NT, Hellenistic theology espoused by Paul. It just doesn't work that way.
 

LittleNipper

Well-Known Member
If it doesn't depend on humans, why, then, is the onus on us to have faith, before we can be saved?

I don't think you can blend the OT, Hebraic theology put forth in Exodus with the NT, Hellenistic theology espoused by Paul. It just doesn't work that way.

GOD also provides the faith.
 

Christian Pilgrim

Active Member
I don't believe the wrath of God was applicable "then." Why would I believe it's applicable today?

Actually, the New Testament speaks volumes about the wrath of God, the comming day of judgment. The return of Christ is all about judgment and the day of wrath for those who do not have faith in Christ. Check out what Paul wrote:

God's Wrath on Unrighteousness

For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth.
For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse. For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened. Claiming to be wise, they became fools, and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man and birds and animals and creeping things.

Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves, because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever! Amen.

For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature; and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error.

And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a debased mind to do what ought not to be done. They were filled with all manner of unrighteousness, evil, covetousness, malice. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, maliciousness. They are gossips, slanderers, haters of God, insolent, haughty, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, foolish, faithless, heartless, ruthless. Though they know God's decree that those who practice such things deserve to die, they not only do them but give approval to those who practice them. - Paul

If then you have been raised with Christ, seek the things that are above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God. Set your minds on things that are above, not on things that are on earth. For you have died, and your life is hidden with Christ in God. When Christ who is your life appears, then you also will appear with him in glory. Put to death therefore what is earthly in you: sexual immorality, impurity, passion, evil desire, and covetousness, which is idolatry. On account of these the wrath of God is coming. - Paul

The Judgment at Christ's Coming

This is evidence of the righteous judgment of God, that you may be considered worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you are also suffering— since indeed God considers it just to repay with affliction those who afflict you, and to grant relief to you who are afflicted as well as to us, when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with his mighty angels in flaming fire, inflicting vengeance on those who do not know God and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. They will suffer the punishment of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might, when he comes on that day to be glorified in his saints, and to be marveled at among all who have believed, because our testimony to you was believed. To this end we always pray for you, that our God may make you worthy of his calling and may fulfill every resolve for good and every work of faith by his power, so that the name of our Lord Jesus may be glorified in you, and you in him, according to the grace of our God and the Lord Jesus Christ. - Paul

And how about what Jesus taught on the subject?

Then he left the crowds and went into the house. And his disciples came to him, saying, “Explain to us the parable of the weeds of the field.” He answered, “The one who sows the good seed is the Son of Man. The field is the world, and the good seed is the sons of the kingdom. The weeds are the sons of the evil one, and the enemy who sowed them is the devil. The harvest is the close of the age, and the reapers are angels. Just as the weeds are gathered and burned with fire, so will it be at the close of the age. The Son of Man will send his angels, and they will gather out of his kingdom all causes of sin and all law-breakers, and throw them into the fiery furnace. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears, let him hear. - Jesus

Even the forerunner of Jesus called John Baptist clearly makes the statment about the wrath of God.

But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming to his baptism, he said to them, “You brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the wrath to come? - John the Baptist

And of course we have the book of Revelation by the Apostle John

When he opened the sixth seal, I looked, and behold, there was a great earthquake, and the sun became black as sackcloth, the full moon became like blood, and the stars of the sky fell to the earth as the fig tree sheds its winter fruit when shaken by a gale. The sky vanished like a scroll that is being rolled up, and every mountain and island was removed from its place. Then the kings of the earth and the great ones and the generals and the rich and the powerful, and everyone, slave and free, hid themselves in the caves and among the rocks of the mountains, calling to the mountains and rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of him who is seated on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb, for the great day of their wrath has come, and who can stand?” - John
 
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sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
Actually, the New Testament speaks volumes about the wrath of God, the comming day of judgment. The return of Christ is all about judgment and the day of wrath for those who do not have faith in Christ. Check out what Paul wrote:

God's Wrath on Unrighteousness

For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth.
For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse. For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened. Claiming to be wise, they became fools, and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man and birds and animals and creeping things.

Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves, because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever! Amen.

For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature; and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error.

And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a debased mind to do what ought not to be done. They were filled with all manner of unrighteousness, evil, covetousness, malice. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, maliciousness. They are gossips, slanderers, haters of God, insolent, haughty, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, foolish, faithless, heartless, ruthless. Though they know God's decree that those who practice such things deserve to die, they not only do them but give approval to those who practice them. - Paul

If then you have been raised with Christ, seek the things that are above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God. Set your minds on things that are above, not on things that are on earth. For you have died, and your life is hidden with Christ in God. When Christ who is your life appears, then you also will appear with him in glory. Put to death therefore what is earthly in you: sexual immorality, impurity, passion, evil desire, and covetousness, which is idolatry. On account of these the wrath of God is coming. - Paul

The Judgment at Christ's Coming

This is evidence of the righteous judgment of God, that you may be considered worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you are also suffering— since indeed God considers it just to repay with affliction those who afflict you, and to grant relief to you who are afflicted as well as to us, when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with his mighty angels in flaming fire, inflicting vengeance on those who do not know God and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. They will suffer the punishment of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might, when he comes on that day to be glorified in his saints, and to be marveled at among all who have believed, because our testimony to you was believed. To this end we always pray for you, that our God may make you worthy of his calling and may fulfill every resolve for good and every work of faith by his power, so that the name of our Lord Jesus may be glorified in you, and you in him, according to the grace of our God and the Lord Jesus Christ. - Paul

And how about what Jesus taught on the subject?

Then he left the crowds and went into the house. And his disciples came to him, saying, “Explain to us the parable of the weeds of the field.” He answered, “The one who sows the good seed is the Son of Man. The field is the world, and the good seed is the sons of the kingdom. The weeds are the sons of the evil one, and the enemy who sowed them is the devil. The harvest is the close of the age, and the reapers are angels. Just as the weeds are gathered and burned with fire, so will it be at the close of the age. The Son of Man will send his angels, and they will gather out of his kingdom all causes of sin and all law-breakers, and throw them into the fiery furnace. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears, let him hear. - Jesus

Even the forerunner of Jesus called John Baptist clearly makes the statment about the wrath of God.

But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming to his baptism, he said to them, “You brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the wrath to come? - John the Baptist

And of course we have the book of Revelation by the Apostle John

When he opened the sixth seal, I looked, and behold, there was a great earthquake, and the sun became black as sackcloth, the full moon became like blood, and the stars of the sky fell to the earth as the fig tree sheds its winter fruit when shaken by a gale. The sky vanished like a scroll that is being rolled up, and every mountain and island was removed from its place. Then the kings of the earth and the great ones and the generals and the rich and the powerful, and everyone, slave and free, hid themselves in the caves and among the rocks of the mountains, calling to the mountains and rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of him who is seated on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb, for the great day of their wrath has come, and who can stand?” - John
Hmmm. And all this time I thought that Christ's return was "all about" the establishment of God's kingdom. I thought that the Bible was written by believers, for believing communities.

Your references are all taken out of context. You don't even list which books they come from (except for the Revelation excerpt). You really should place the excerpts in context and exegete them, rather than cobbling them together in a proof-texting exercise. Until you can show me that these passages mean what you think they mean, I disregard your analysis of them.
 

ayani

member
Rheff ~

i would argue that Judas was doing God's will.

God can and does use even Satan to accomplish His purposes.

throughout the Gospels, Jesus informs His disciples that He will be betrayed, and handed over to the Gentiles.

Matthew 26:23-25 indicates that in order for scripture to be fulfilled, that the Messiah must be betrayed. this, too, was part of God's plan. John 13:27 says that Satan entered Judas, inspiring him to betray God's Son, that He might be handed over and killed, and rise again.

it would then be reasonable to say that God allowed Satan to enter Judas, that Jesus might be betrayed and killed, and rise on the third day. in that sense, yes, Judas was doing God's will.
 

Spiritone

Active Member
I get it from John 12:4-6. The Gnostic Gospels are not canon, nor are they from CHRIST.

How would John know what Judas was thinking? Judas had to take the rap as a bad guy in order to fulfill the prophesies.
Why would you discount the Gnostic Gospels when they were written by people who knew Jesus. Paul never met Jesus and it is known that decisions were made by Constantine and others what would be put into the Gospels and what left out. IMO. we should take everything into consideration. Everything!
It's amazing what we can learn. But I can understand how someone has total faith in the Bible and not in sources outside it.
 

LittleNipper

Well-Known Member
How would John know what Judas was thinking? Judas had to take the rap as a bad guy in order to fulfill the prophesies.
Why would you discount the Gnostic Gospels when they were written by people who knew Jesus. Paul never met Jesus and it is known that decisions were made by Constantine and others what would be put into the Gospels and what left out. IMO. we should take everything into consideration. Everything!
It's amazing what we can learn. But I can understand how someone has total faith in the Bible and not in sources outside it.

GOD HIMSELF by way of the HOLY SPIRIT wrote the HOLY SCRIPTURES through the prophets ----- including Saint John. The Gnostic Gospels were not written by anyone who knew CHRIST. Revelations was the last book of the Bible written. That was about 96 AD. The Gnostic works were written well after that and face the condemnation in Revelations.
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
GOD HIMSELF by way of the HOLY SPIRIT wrote the HOLY SCRIPTURES through the prophets ----- including Saint John. The Gnostic Gospels were not written by anyone who knew CHRIST. Revelations was the last book of the Bible written. That was about 96 AD. The Gnostic works were written well after that and face the condemnation in Revelations.
I think this position is a little overboard and completely indefensible.

It is very likely that none of the NT books were written by anyone who knew Jesus. What's your point? That only those who knew Jesus could write something inspired? That only those who knew Jesus were capable of writing canon scripture?

Thomas is considered by many to be gnostic, and it was purportedly written in the 70s-90s.
 

ayani

member
Spirit ~

well..... many of these Gnostic gospels, while bearing the names of disciples and close friends of Jesus, were written quite a few decades and even centuries after the earliest Gospels were penned.

it is true that Paul never met Jesus in the flesh. yet, neither have i. at least, not while He lived and walked 2,000 years ago. but it's the Christian belief that He is risen which says that He can and does appear to people and change their lives, even today.

Paul's take on Christian faith in indeed a little different, but i'd argue that this is based on where he came from before his conversion experience. previously, he was a Pharisee who kept the letter of the law very carefully. yet when he met Jesus on the road, a moment of faith in His name and power did more to change Paul's heart and his understanding of his God than years of careful keeping of the details of Jewish Law ever had. therefor, Paul emphasizes salvation by faith and grace, rather than by works.

and so does Jesus. notice throughout the Gospels how He heals people based on their faith in Him, not because they have carefully kept the Law in all its detail. in fact, the religious authroities who were very good at keeping the commandments and traditions were the ones without faith, who remained aloof from Jesus, and therefor aloof from His grace. they saw, the heard, they understood, yet they had no faith, and no change of heart. it was humble and joyful faith in Jesus the Immanuel which would have healed them and opened their eyes, not their continued use of works and acts to get them closer to God's holiness.

also, Paul speaks often on the need for love, charity, and longsuffering, all virtues which Jesus spoke of, and commanded of us. so really, nothing Paul says contradicts anything Jesus says. Paul's take is a little different, but then everyone who comes to believe in Jesus will be coming from a different place, and have different aspects of Christian faith which are especially meaningful for them.

How would John know what Judas was thinking? Judas had to take the rap as a bad guy in order to fulfill the prophesies.
Why would you discount the Gnostic Gospels when they were written by people who knew Jesus. Paul never met Jesus and it is known that decisions were made by Constantine and others what would be put into the Gospels and what left out. IMO. we should take everything into consideration. Everything!
It's amazing what we can learn. But I can understand how someone has total faith in the Bible and not in sources outside it.
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
The fact is that John would not know what Judas was thinking. The point of this argument isn't what someone knew. It's about the will of God. The question in the OP is predicated upon a belief that God intended for Jesus to die. I just don't think that was the case. We have to understand that the gospel writers were writing "backward," in hindsight. They weren't reporting the news, nor were they writing history. They were writing theology. Those folks who knew that their Lord had suffered greatly and died a cruel death had to find some theological reason for that death. That's why they wrote the gospels as they did -- that is, couching his death as a fulfillment of some kind of prophecy.

But, fact is, the Messiah was not supposed to die. He was supposed to provide a military victory. When Jesus was killed, his followers, believing him to be the Messiah, had to shift gears and come to a realization that what they were being saved from was not the Romans, but their own unrighteousness.

In the sour act of imperial terrorism, God made lemonade. That's the theological meaning behind it all -- that God will accomplish God's purposes through the foibled acts of humanity. God has always done that!

Did Judas do God's will? No! Did grace prevail through his heinous act? Most assuredly!
 

LittleNipper

Well-Known Member
I think this position is a little overboard and completely indefensible.

It is very likely that none of the NT books were written by anyone who knew Jesus. What's your point? That only those who knew Jesus could write something inspired? That only those who knew Jesus were capable of writing canon scripture?

Thomas is considered by many to be gnostic, and it was purportedly written in the 70s-90s.

No, it is very likely that all the writters either were original Disciples of JESUS, were related to JESUS (James for example) or worked directly with an original Apostle of JESUS.

Thomas is considered by many to have been written about 140 years plus AD at best.
 

LittleNipper

Well-Known Member
The fact is that John would not know what Judas was thinking. The point of this argument isn't what someone knew. It's about the will of God. The question in the OP is predicated upon a belief that God intended for Jesus to die. I just don't think that was the case. We have to understand that the gospel writers were writing "backward," in hindsight. They weren't reporting the news, nor were they writing history. They were writing theology. Those folks who knew that their Lord had suffered greatly and died a cruel death had to find some theological reason for that death. That's why they wrote the gospels as they did -- that is, couching his death as a fulfillment of some kind of prophecy.

But, fact is, the Messiah was not supposed to die. He was supposed to provide a military victory. When Jesus was killed, his followers, believing him to be the Messiah, had to shift gears and come to a realization that what they were being saved from was not the Romans, but their own unrighteousness.

In the sour act of imperial terrorism, God made lemonade. That's the theological meaning behind it all -- that God will accomplish God's purposes through the foibled acts of humanity. God has always done that!

Did Judas do God's will? No! Did grace prevail through his heinous act? Most assuredly!

Even Abraham KNEW that GOD would provide a lamb for the slaughter. There is no other remedy for the forgiveness of sin. You really need to read the 22nd Psalm. It points to exactly how CHRIST would die centuries before crucifiction was even dreamed up...
 
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sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
No, it is very likely that all the writters either were original Disciples of JESUS, were related to JESUS (James for example) or worked directly with an original Apostle of JESUS.

Thomas is considered by many to have been written about 140 years plus AD at best.
'k. Prove it!
You can't, because the evidence just ain't there. The autographs are all much later additions to the earliest texts we have.

"Worked directly with an original apostle" is not the same thing as "knowing Jesus." Even if you could prove that such a working relationship existed, which you can't.

Thomas is considered by the best Thomastic scholars to be earlier than that. I don't care what "many" say, if they're not the best scholars.

Wishful thinking is on your side. Unfortunately, scholarly indicators are not.
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
Even Abraham KNEW that GOD would provide a lamb for the slaughter. There is no other remedy for the forgiveness of sin. You really need to read the 22nd Psalm. It points to exactly how CHRIST would die centuries before crucifiction was even dreamed up...
That's fine. However, I don't see what Isaac's sacrifice has to do with the crucifixion.

The only remedy for sin is reconciliation with God. We were reconciled by the Incarnation.

You really need to understand that the OT literature has nothing to do with Jesus. Just because the faithful have, in hindsight, seen some of the OT occurrences as prophetic of Jesus and the Church, it does not follow that the OT writers, themselves, had any such intent when they wrote what they did. The didn't know Jesus. They couldn't conceive of what Jesus would accomplish in the way of creating a new salvation paradigm.
Your last sentence is a perfect indicator of who and what the OT writers were writing about -- and it wasn't Jesus or the crucifixion.:no:
 

LittleNipper

Well-Known Member
'k. Prove it!
You can't, because the evidence just ain't there. The autographs are all much later additions to the earliest texts we have.

"Worked directly with an original apostle" is not the same thing as "knowing Jesus." Even if you could prove that such a working relationship existed, which you can't.

Thomas is considered by the best Thomastic scholars to be earlier than that. I don't care what "many" say, if they're not the best scholars.

Wishful thinking is on your side. Unfortunately, scholarly indicators are not.

The same scholars who claim the FLOOD never happened, that MARY was not a virgin, and that CHRIST never rose from the dead?
So what. I believe that if the scholar is not Christian, his learned opinion is no better than the school of thought he decided to embrace. There are some very learned men who happen to be Christian who simply see the "Gospel" of Thomas for what it really is ----- another book of mormon (just a lot older).

I've been a Christian without the book. I do not need to be "enlightened" by some mystic.
 

LittleNipper

Well-Known Member
That's fine. However, I don't see what Isaac's sacrifice has to do with the crucifixion.

The only remedy for sin is reconciliation with God. We were reconciled by the Incarnation.

You really need to understand that the OT literature has nothing to do with Jesus. Just because the faithful have, in hindsight, seen some of the OT occurrences as prophetic of Jesus and the Church, it does not follow that the OT writers, themselves, had any such intent when they wrote what they did. The didn't know Jesus. They couldn't conceive of what Jesus would accomplish in the way of creating a new salvation paradigm.
Your last sentence is a perfect indicator of who and what the OT writers were writing about -- and it wasn't Jesus or the crucifixion.:no:

You are as blind as Pharaoh, Herod,and Caiaphas.

Who was present when Isaac was almost sacraficed? I didn't realize that Abraham pierced his hands and feet and starved him? And to have all the servants laugh at Isaac and part his clothes. Doesn't sound like you know a thing about Abraham, let alone the Old Testament...
 
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