Hi @metis ,
Thanks for coming back and sharing your perspective. It’s great to have older, wiser heads along with the slightly younger and not so wise lol
This is certainly a theme that often comes up on RF. We have the words of Jesus in regards to fulfilling the law, not breaking it (Matthew 5:17-20) and then the apostles completely redefined what laws should and shouldn’t be followed.
As I understand it, most but not all Christian denominations believe Jesus is God incarnate. The exceptions include the Jehovah witnesses and Unitarians. The problem may arise with a misunderstanding of verses such as John1:1-3 that introduces the logos. Interesting Philo a Hellenised Jew and contemporary of Christ used logos to mean a mediator between God and man.
What verses of Paul do you feel have contributed to the deification of Christ?
Definitely to be taken figuratively not literally IMHO. I understand Paul made use of the obvious symbolism of Christ’s crucifixion to explain away God’s plan.
Agreed.
Agreed again. That’s all really helpful.
Thanks for coming back and sharing your perspective. It’s great to have older, wiser heads along with the slightly younger and not so wise lol
It appears that Paul takes Jesus very seriously but goes beyond what Jesus appears to have said. First of all, there's confusion over the Law as it shows up in Acts, and Paul gives his take on what should and should not be done, especially with those converting into the Church.
This is certainly a theme that often comes up on RF. We have the words of Jesus in regards to fulfilling the law, not breaking it (Matthew 5:17-20) and then the apostles completely redefined what laws should and shouldn’t be followed.
Also, Paul appears to at the least get very close to deifying Jesus, and yet the gospels have Jesus downplaying himself with "I've come to serve, not be served".
As I understand it, most but not all Christian denominations believe Jesus is God incarnate. The exceptions include the Jehovah witnesses and Unitarians. The problem may arise with a misunderstanding of verses such as John1:1-3 that introduces the logos. Interesting Philo a Hellenised Jew and contemporary of Christ used logos to mean a mediator between God and man.
What verses of Paul do you feel have contributed to the deification of Christ?
Paul's concept of Jesus being "the final sacrifice" is not likely anything Jesus said about himself. Plus it makes no sense if taken literally but can make sense if taken figuratively.
Definitely to be taken figuratively not literally IMHO. I understand Paul made use of the obvious symbolism of Christ’s crucifixion to explain away God’s plan.
This does not take anything away from Paul, imo, because what he's doing is to take Jesus' teachings and trying to apply it to the early Church, which definitely needed a sense of direction as conditions were rapidly changing with the growth and expansion of the Church into the diasporah and the inclusion of so many of the "God-Fearers" (gentiles) into their ranks. By the end of the century, they appear to have formed the majority of those in it.
Agreed.
One has to be careful when reading Paul because he tends to use dualisms a lot (black/white, light/dark/ etc.), which is likely a reflection of his Hellenistic education. He is not really a champion of faith w/o works because at other times he says things like faith w/o works is like cymbals clashing, and that of faith, hope, and love, the greatest of these is love ("agape"-- an active noun-- one doesn't just have love-- one also does love). Frankly, I don't think Luther and Calvin understood that, thus their "salvation by faith alone" theologies.
Just my take.
Agreed again. That’s all really helpful.