Divinity of Jesus

[Desert Snake]

I would tell you confused about what, but to be honest, I would just be rewriting the post you were replying to. I dont know if you've had a bad day or you d have some reading comehension problems.

Do try re-reading the posts y've said are "incoherent" when you feel fresher.

I am serious b the way. We all make mistakes and I've made a air of stud es before. So, I do urge y to re-read later and then comment.

No, you don't get it lol, you need to read the whole thread

 

[Desert Snake]

Ah, lol, yes that's what happened, Windwalker responded to a post by Muffled and I responded to that response, so if someone didn't read the whole thread they would think I thought that Jesus approved of the gospels or something similar.

So I was correct, As Windwalker also must've confused me for Muffled

:namaste

 

[Desert Snake]

thread coherency, guys. I know you're all eager to express your views but please take the time to make sure you are attributing the right opinions to the right members.

 

[Ingledsva]

Isa 7:14 and isa 9:6.

Both of these have already been answered by me, and others, in this thread.

Immanuel is Isaiah's son by the temple virgin.

These events took place back then.

They are not writing about a future Jesus.

Oops - It was in the "Was Jesus the Messiah thread - so -

7:1 tells us we are talking about Isaiah and Ahaz.


Isa 7:1 And it came to pass in the days of Ahaz the son of Jotham, the son of Uzziah, king of Judah, that Rezin the king of Syria, and Pekah the son of Remaliah, king of Israel, went up toward Jerusalem to war against it, but could not prevail against it.

Isa 7:3 Then said the LORD unto Isaiah, Go forth now to meet Ahaz, thou, and Shearjashub thy son, at the end of the conduit of the upper pool in the highway of the fuller's field;


7:10-13 tells us God tells Ahaz to ask for a sign, but Azah feels this would be an imposition.

7:14 tells us THEN God gives AHAZ a sign - Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin maiden shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Emmanuel.

NOTE - the sign is for Ahaz whom is with Isaiah!!!!!

8:1 Here he is told to record concerning Mahershalalhashbaz. His ceremonial name.

8:3 He wrote -And I (Isaiah)went unto the prophetess; and she conceived, and bare a son. Then said the LORD to me, Call his name Mahershalalhashbaz (Fast to the plunder, swift to the prey.)

8:8 Tells us HE, EMMANUEL.

8:18 Here ISAIAH tells us HE and his CHILDREN are for SIGNS, just as it says up in 7:13-14 and 8:3!

Isa 8:18 Behold, I (Isaiah) and the children whom the LORD hath given me are for signs and for wonders in Israel from the LORD of hosts, which dwelleth in mount Zion.

Isa 7:8 even gives us a time - ...,and within threescore and five years shall Ephraim be broken, that it be not a people.

If you look up Emmanuel in a Strong's, for instance, it will tell you Emmanuel is the name of Isaiah's son - also called Mahershalalhashbaz - Isa 8:3!

Look at 9:6-7 in Hebrew, this is not talking about Jesus. Where they translated it Mighty God - it is probably Mighty warrior - though it doesn't have to be as we are told humans are called god in the Bible - "Ye are gods"

In later verses such as 9:11 it is still talking about Rezin.

Isa 9:11 And YHVH will set up Rezin's foes against him, and join together his enemies;

SO! This all takes place at the time of Resin - and the child is not Messiah, or Jesus.

 

[Windwalker]

Ah, lol, yes that's what happened, Windwalker responded to a post by Muffled and I responded to that response, so if someone didn't read the whole thread they would think I thought that Jesus approved of the gospels or something similar.

So I was correct, As Windwalker also must've confused me for Muffled

:namaste

Yes that is what happened. You picked up my response to Muffled and I began responding to you. I suppose at some point my references were back to Muffled's comments as if they were the points you were defending since you ran with the responses. Going forward it might be better to not make comments that my posts are incoherent and garbled as you did, but rather just ask me for clarification if you don't follow my train of thought. I shouldn't have gotten snarky at you in response however.

So now that it's been clarified what I was addressing in my posts, any other point that wasn't clear in what I am saying to these points?

 

[allright]

Both of these have already been answered by me, and others, in this thread.


Isaiah 9:6,7 So your claiming Isaiahs son sat upon the throne of David, established it with order and justice forever and was called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, the Prince of Peace.

Some proof please.

Nowhere in the Bible were any of Isaiahs sons called Emmanuel

 

[Ingledsva]

Both of these have already been answered by me, and others, in this thread.

Isaiah 9:6,7 So your claiming Isaiahs son sat upon the throne of David, established it with order and justice forever and was called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, the Prince of Peace.

Some proof please.

Nowhere in the Bible were any of Isaiahs sons called Emmanuel

All you have to do is look up Emmanuel in a Strong's!

Isaiah 9:6 For is born a child, a son given to take the rule/government upon his shoulders; and his name is called Wonderful Adviser, Mighty Warrior, Father of future generations, Ruler/keeper/prince of peace.

Isaiah 9:7 To increase the government/empire and the welfare/safety/peace of the throne of David, and over his kingdom; to strengthen the justice and righteousness, from this time, and to eternity. Zealously YHVH of Hosts will do this.

In Isaiah 9:6 “lately” it is usually translated “Mighty God” and “Everlasting Father” – however

That “God” is also “Mighty,” and as for “Father Everlasting,” in the Greek Septuagint they used πατὴρ τοῦ μέλλαντος αιὼνος, "the father of the yet to come ages" – and Jerome in the Vulgate translates it “Pater futuri saeculi, "Father of the future generations/ages".

Thus = Mighty Warrior, Father of future generations.

Also did you not see where I said they were still talking about Rezin after your supposed Jesus verses?

BEFORE -

Isa 7:1 And it came to pass in the days of Ahaz the son of Jotham, the son of Uzziah, king of Judah, that Rezin the king of Syria, and Pekah the son of Remaliah, king of Israel, went up toward Jerusalem to war against it, but could not prevail against it.


After 9:6-7 -


Isa 9:11 Therefore YHVH shall set up the adversaries of Rezin against him, and join his enemies together;
Isa 9:12 The Syrians before, and the Philistines behind; and they shall devour Israel with open mouth.
This whole thing takes place during the time of REZIN the King of Syria.

 

[allright]

Which person are you claiming Isaiah 9:6,7 are talking about ?


I dont care what some editor of Strongs wrote 2000 years later, where is it in the Bible

 

[Desert Snake]

Which person are you claiming Isaiah 9:6,7 are talking about ?


I dont care what some editor of Strongs wrote 2000 years later, where is it in the Bible

That's my question, also.

I brought up the idea that it was confusing because of a lack of a paragraph break in the Scripture, at least in the KJV.

 

[jtartar]

Can anyone please clarify this:
There are many who claim the title ''Christian,'' yet deny the Divinity of Jesus. If Christian means disciple of Jesus Christ, and him, by inference, being a mere mortal with inherent traits such as fallability, why and how do you incorporate him in your faith? Should you not focus on God (the Father) only?

Philda Tressie,
Good question, but the Bible gives a very satisfying answer to this.
God loves His son, so He has given all power over this earth to His son, and everyone who believes in him and follows his steps, will gain everlasting life, John 3:35,36. There is only ONE Name under heaven by which all men MUST get saved, Acts 4:12. Jesus gave his life as a Ransom for us, so that we could gain back the perfect life that Adam, our forefather, lost for us, when he rebelled against God, 1Tim 2:4-6, 1Pet 3:18.
Jesus is the WAY and the life, no one comes to the Father except through Jesus, John 14:6, and no one comes to Jesus unless God calls him, John 6:44.
Jesus came to earth to accomplish several things, one was to be a great Exemplar, to be followed closely, 1Pet 2:21, another was to be a Ransom Sacrifice for all mankind who would have faith in him, John 3:16, another was to end the Mosaic Law Covenant, because it condemned all under it to death, because no one could obey it perfectly, Gal 3:10-14, James 2:10.
Remember, Jesus was a Jew, so he was under the Mosaic Law Covenant, Gal 4:4,5. By being followers of Jesus they became called Christians, which was evidently God's will, Acts 11:26, 1Pet 4:16.
Christianity actually began on Pentecost of 33CE, which was 50 days after the resurrection of Jesus. It started with the powerful Gifts of the Holy Spirit being poured out on the group that was together on Pentecost, Acts 2:1-21. These powerful gifts were given so that the Jews would recognize that God had turned His favor away from the Jews and to the followers of Jesus, Christians.

 

[Ingledsva]

Which person are you claiming Isaiah 9:6,7 are talking about ?


I dont care what some editor of Strongs wrote 2000 years later, where is it in the Bible

LOL! "Some editor." They know this by doing the research, and reading the Jewish material.

As to "where is it in the Bible" - You realise don't you - that the Jesus idea for 9:6-7 ISN'T in the verse?

This is from my reply above --

All you have to do is look up Emmanuel in a Strong's!

Isaiah 9:6 For is born a child, a son given to take the rule/government upon his shoulders; and his name is called Wonderful Adviser, Mighty Warrior, Father of future generations, Ruler/keeper/prince of peace.

Isaiah 9:7 To increase the government/empire and the welfare/safety/peace of the throne of David, and over his kingdom; to strengthen the justice and righteousness, from this time, and to eternity. Zealously YHVH of Hosts will do this.

In Isaiah 9:6 “lately” it is usually translated “Mighty God” and “Everlasting Father” – however

That “God” is also “Mighty,” and as for “Father Everlasting,” in the Greek Septuagint they used πατὴρ τοῦ μέλλαντος αιὼνος, "the father of the yet to come ages" – and Jerome in the Vulgate translates it “Pater futuri saeculi, "Father of the future generations/ages".

Thus = Mighty Warrior, Father of future generations.

Also did you not see where I said they were still talking about Rezin after your supposed Jesus verses?

BEFORE -

Isa 7:1 And it came to pass in the days of Ahaz the son of Jotham, the son of Uzziah, king of Judah, that Rezin the king of Syria, and Pekah the son of Remaliah, king of Israel, went up toward Jerusalem to war against it, but could not prevail against it.


After 9:6-7 -


Isa 9:11 Therefore YHVH shall set up the adversaries of Rezin against him, and join his enemies together;

Isa 9:12 The Syrians before, and the Philistines behind; and they shall devour Israel with open mouth.

This whole thing takes place during the time of REZIN the King of Syria.

*

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

I find that surprising. Just how prevalent do people believe this to be? Also, what would be the tenets of such 'Christianity' beyond endorsing the golden rule?

Christian Unitarians are at least agnostic about the divinity of Jesus. and that is a very ancient tradition.

I believe in God, Jesus the son of God, and the holy spirit, but not the conventional trinity concept. I have no Idea how they are related, but see them as separate.

Most other Christians do not accept unitarians to be Christian. They do not accept any non trinitarians , including LDS or JW's either.

 

[allright]

LOL!



Please answer the question. If all these were fufilled in Isaiahs time , which individual are you claiming fulfilled Isaiah 9:6,7 at that time?

 

[Ingledsva]

LOL!

Please answer the question. If all these were fufilled in Isaiahs time , which individual are you claiming fulfilled Isaiah 9:6,7 at that time.

One would assume they speak of Isaiah's son.

Isaiah 9:6 For is born a child, a son given to take the rule/government upon his shoulders; and his name is called Wonderful Adviser, Mighty Warrior, Father of future generations, Ruler/keeper/prince of peace.

Isaiah 9:7 To increase the government/empire and the welfare/safety/peace of the throne of David, and over his kingdom; to strengthen the justice and righteousness, from this time, and to eternity. Zealously YHVH of Hosts will do this.

These do not in any way have to be translated as "God Mighty," "Father Eternal," etc.

It does not even have to be taken as this person is to sit on the Throne of David - as you can see in the translation above.-

...To increase the government/empire and the welfare/safety/peace of the throne of David, ...

 

[allright]

One would assume they speak of Isaiah's son.

Isaiah 9:6 For is born a child, a son given to take the rule/government upon his shoulders; and his name is called Wonderful Adviser, Mighty Warrior, Father of future generations, Ruler/keeper/prince of peace.

Isaiah 9:7 To increase the government/empire and the welfare/safety/peace of the throne of David, and over his kingdom; to strengthen the justice and righteousness, from this time, and to eternity. Zealously YHVH of Hosts will do this.

These do not in any way have to be translated as "God Mighty," "Father Eternal," etc.

It does not even have to be taken as this person is to sit on the Throne of David - as you can see in the translation above.-

...To increase the government/empire and the welfare/safety/peace of the throne of David, ...

Please provide one shred of evidence that Isaiahs son did any of this

 

[Desert Snake]

Please provide one shred of evidence that Isaiahs son did any of this

This theory also wxpects you to believe that Isaiahs son also had two names. Just a heads up.

aik!

 

[sojourner]

The Christiany my church subscribe to emphasises that ritual does not lead to Salvation. We believe that acceptance of Jesus, the Messiah, confession, true repentance of sins and living a spiritual life bring Salvation

Sooo... I notice that nowhere in your "formula" is God -- or God's acts -- incorporated. We accept Jesus (our act); we confess (our act); we repent (our act); we live a spiritual life (our act); and it is those acts that bring about salvation? How, then, can Jesus be called a "savior," if neither his, nor God's acts bring about salvation? Your formula is closer to humanism than it is Christianity.
Can you explain?

 

[sojourner]

Culture and faith (belief) are two different things, therefore ''cultural Christiany'' seems an odd concept. With regard to the relevance of what Christians do or do not believe, can one who does not confess the Apostles' Creed honestly use the title ''Christian?''

How are faith and culture inherently different? Doesn't that statement completely negate H. Richard Niebuhr's "Christ in culture" philosophy?:areyoucra

 

[sojourner]

Culture and faith (belief) are two different things, therefore ''cultural Christiany'' seems an odd concept. With regard to the relevance of what Christians do or do not believe, can one who does not confess the Apostles' Creed honestly use the title ''Christian?''

Sure! Jesus never required followers to believe particular things about him; he did require them to follow his example. Xy is relational, not creedal.

 

[sojourner]

Does this mean that anyone on earth has the potential for divinity? How does one realise it in oneself? Do you mean spirituality?

Do we not all contain the breath of Spirit?