Do any Christians disagree with this...

[Just_me_Mike]

Huh? What do you believe the Bible has to say on the matter?

Katzpur, it may not be th right thread, but I will try to explain.
From man's point of view, we get great satisfaction from feeling in control of our salvation. So much so that we would rather fill a church up full of people who have done x,y, and z so we can feel rea proud and all that.
Where xyz means different things at different churches. So it has been decided by men teach Jesus this way for a long time.
Jesus plainly says in the bible that it is God that draws into salvation, and does all the work himself. After that has taken place, then sure we will feel a need to learn more about the God in the bible, but this will never happen unless God draws us first.
Now we may have been taught differently in church, but when we start participating in the salvation we are denying the truth.

In light of the current thread, the point can be made again, this also means anyone is capable of being saved and we are all equal in the process.

 

[DallasApple]

From what I've seen most Christians have an answer for those who have never heard of Jesus, usually that they will get a chance to believe after they die.

But if they get a chance in this life, even a small one, then they are held accountable. For some reason most Christians seem to think that any chance is automatically an equal chance. So a child born in Saudi Arabia has the same chance at becoming Christian as a child born in the USA because "they both had a chance". Even one member here has said "everyone has a 50% chance of becoming a Christian, because they either will or they will not".

I think that if you a Christian just act like one..And stop talking about who isnt one and wether or not they burn in hell or get a second chance and 50 this and 50 that..

Thats the kind of stuff Jesus hated..

I think the last thing "on Earth" Jesus would have wanted is "calculation" of who is what and who goes where..

God is NOT in a box..

BLAHH...

Love

Dallas

 

[Beaudreaux]

Katzpur, it may not be th right thread, but I will try to explain.
From man's point of view, we get great satisfaction from feeling in control of our salvation. So much so that we would rather fill a church up full of people who have done x,y, and z so we can feel rea proud and all that.
Where xyz means different things at different churches. So it has been decided by men teach Jesus this way for a long time.
Jesus plainly says in the bible that it is God that draws into salvation, and does all the work himself. After that has taken place, then sure we will feel a need to learn more about the God in the bible, but this will never happen unless God draws us first.
Now we may have been taught differently in church, but when we start participating in the salvation we are denying the truth.

In light of the current thread, the point can be made again, this also means anyone is capable of being saved and we are all equal in the process.

Why do you suppose God is drawing mostly Americans and Europeans? Doesn't he like Asians?

 

[Just_me_Mike]

Huh? What do you believe the Bible has to say on the matter?

let me say one other thing about your post. Your next logical question could be, how then do we know if we are saved if we aren't just suppose to accept Jesus and be baptized. Who can know they are saved? This is the part no one likes about the bible,because with this information we are now truly at God"s mercy to keep asking for salvation. It was never as simple as xyz. again man found a way around this by a few choice verses in the bible, and it became much more popular than the truth, and much more profitable if I might add t tell people "you going to hell, but if you join my church and accept Jesus, you will be saved from this hell"
These curches will be punished sevrely in the last day, as the bible says "judgement begins at the house of God first" 1st Peter 4:7

 

[HoldemDB9]

I think that if you a Christian just act like one..And stop talking about who isnt one and wether or not they burn in hell or get a second chance and 50 this and 50 that..

Thats the kind of stuff Jesus hated..

I think the last thing "on Earth" Jesus would have wanted is "calculation" of who is what and who goes where..

God is NOT in a box..

BLAHH...

Love

Dallas

I'm just showing how the belief of some (most?) Christians is flawed. You cannot believe that only Christians go to heaven AND that we only get this life to become Christian AND that God is fair, yet many do claim to believe this.

 

[Draka]

If it is all predestined, and god chooses who he wants to save regardless of actions and beliefs, then why even bother having belief in him? Why bother to keep to any commandments or avoid "sinning"? What does it matter who you, or anyone else, believes in? Why preach to people at all? Why encourage them to be christian at all? I mean, if it's all predestined in the first place, if god chose if he wanted to save you before you were even born, what difference does anything you do, say, or believe make?

 

[Just_me_Mike]

Why do you suppose God is drawing mostly Americans and Europeans? Doesn't he like Asians?

I'll take that as a joke.
If the world almanac has 2 billion professing christianity. How in the world does american christians plus europian christians equal 2 billion.

Furthermore, Christiaity is for sale in the US, so like any product we sell in america we make sure it is prevalent all around us.
There are very few in America who are actually christians, in my opinion.
Now, though I want to be one of God's chosen I to date don't think I have been saved yet. If that tells you anything about my belief. I understand plenty of the bible, but do not feel a supernatural experiencehas happened in my life that I know for sure I am saved.

 

[DallasApple]

I'm just showing how the belief of some (most?) Christians is flawed. You cannot believe that only Christians go to heaven AND that we only get this life to become Christian AND that God is fair, yet many do claim to believe this.

Well some people have a "superiorty" complex..It makes them "feel better"..And also it draws away from MANY things they need to look into themselves about so they can worry about the "poor" souls" that need their help..(to be saved)..and not grow themselves because that is harder than focussing on others "problems" and faults..(that they have within)



Love

Dalllas

 

[Draka]

I'll take that as a joke.
If the world almanac has 2 billion professing christianity. How in the world does american christians plus europian christians equal 2 billion.

Furthermore, Christiaity is for sale in the US, so like any product we sell in america we make sure it is prevalent all around us.
There are very few in America who are actually christians, in my opinion.
Now, though I want to be one of God's chosen I to date don't think I have been saved yet. If that tells you anything about my belief. I understand plenty of the bible, but do not feel a supernatural experiencehas happened in my life that I know for sure I am saved.

If you have had no spiritual/supernatural experiences in your life to confirm that what you believe is even real, then how do you validate maintaining that belief? If you have nothing to back up your beliefs other than a book, why do you continue to propogate them when you have nothing that backs them up other than the book?

 

[DallasApple]

If it is all predestined, and god chooses who he wants to save regardless of actions and beliefs, then why even bother having belief in him? Why bother to keep to any commandments or avoid "sinning"? What does it matter who you, or anyone else, believes in? Why preach to people at all? Why encourage them to be christian at all? I mean, if it's all predestined in the first place, if god chose if he wanted to save you before you were even born, what difference does anything you do, say, or believe make?

Too true...

"Eve" the original sinner was "chosen"..Noah was a drunk..(one of Gods beloved)..AND David was a "man after Gods own heart" and he was an adulterer and murderer..(just to name a few)..

Love

Dallas

 

[Just_me_Mike]

If it is all predestined, and god chooses who he wants to save regardless of actions and beliefs, then why even bother having belief in him? Why bother to keep to any commandments or avoid "sinning"? What does it matter who you, or anyone else, believes in? Why preach to people at all? Why encourage them to be christian at all? I mean, if it's all predestined in the first place, if god chose if he wanted to save you before you were even born, what difference does anything you do, say, or believe make?

Well unfortunately it is a very serious issue. One that ayone professing to be saved should consider cosely.
You ask why bother if it is all predestined. Let's exaine that. Did you ever read in the bible where it says we can plant the seed and another can water, but it is God that gives the increase?
Therefor, it is our job to tell the truth, and that is how God has chosen to save people by people hearing his words. Remember the bible says Faith cometh by hearing the word of God, and if we have no one telling God's word and no bible to read from then evryone would die.
This is just how God set his program up. So we are told to go into the world and tell the truth, and by that God's chosen will be saved..
Of course once the last one is saved, it is over.
so this is why we teach, because we don't know who is the elect, that is not our concern. We just plant and water and God gives the increase.

 

[DallasApple]

This is just how God set his program up. So we are told to go into the world and tell the truth, and by that God's chosen will be saved..
Of course once the last one is saved, it is over.
so this is why we teach, because we don't know who is the elect, that is not our concern. We just plant and water and God gives the increase.

Why do you say "we" and "our"..How do you know you are not the "elect"? How do you know you werent one behind the last one chosen?

Love

Dallas

 

[Draka]

Well unfortunately it is a very serious issue. One that ayone professing to be saved should consider cosely.
You ask why bother if it is all predestined. Let's exaine that. Did you ever read in the bible where it says we can plant the seed and another can water, but it is God that gives the increase?
Therefor, it is our job to tell the truth, and that is how God has chosen to save people by people hearing his words. Remember the bible says Faith cometh by hearing the word of God, and if we have no one telling God's word and no bible to read from then evryone would die.
This is just how God set his program up. So we are told to go into the world and tell the truth, and by that God's chosen will be saved..
Of course once the last one is saved, it is over.
so this is why we teach, because we don't know who is the elect, that is not our concern. We just plant and water and God gives the increase.

But then you are placing requirements on being "chosen". Now it IS up to what people do. Or what they hear. And now we are right back to where we started. Not everyone is going to hear the message. And what of those god has "chosen" yet never hear or, if they do hear, never spread the message? Are they now "unchosen"? If so, then god DOES have action/belief/deed requirements on being saved. And since not everyone has the same probabillity of hearing, or has the means to spread, then that would go back to making god unfair and unjust and, well, just finicky and moody.

 

[Just_me_Mike]

Why do you say "we" and "our"..How do you know you are not the "elect"? How do you know you werent one behind the last one chosen?

Love

Dallas

Kind words Dallas, but I am not a hypocrit. I pray evryday that when God is done I am one of them, and i pray for my children too. In the end I trust God with the saving business.
It has always felt wrong for me to say I am saved by doing this or that. Then after years of studying, my feeling was confirmed that the bible teaches it is not our choice or by any act we do. The good thing is today salvtion is till possible, and so I continue to pray.
Thanks!

 

[Tristesse]

Kind words Dallas, but I am not a hypocrit. I pray evryday that when God is done I am one of them, and i pray for my children too. In the end I trust God with the saving business.
It has always felt wrong for me to say I am saved by doing this or that. Then after years of studying, my feeling was confirmed that the bible teaches it is not our choice or by any act we do. The good thing is today salvtion is till possible, and so I continue to pray.
Thanks!

It's sad, to have such primitive beliefs in the 21st century. I'm not attacking you, I'm attacking the beliefs. Sorry, if you took offense to that.

 

[DallasApple]

Kind words Dallas, but I am not a hypocrit. I pray evryday that when God is done I am one of them, and i pray for my children too. In the end I trust God with the saving business.
It has always felt wrong for me to say I am saved by doing this or that. Then after years of studying, my feeling was confirmed that the bible teaches it is not our choice or by any act we do. The good thing is today salvtion is till possible, and so I continue to pray.
Thanks!

Im not accusing you...

Love

Dallas

 

[Beaudreaux]

I'll take that as a joke.

I'm not joking. You have been presented with statistics that show a vast majority of people in India and China are not Christians. It is clear that God is not selecting as many of them as he is Americans and Europeans.

Furthermore, Christiaity is for sale in the US, so like any product we sell in america we make sure it is prevalent all around us.
There are very few in America who are actually christians, in my opinion.

Again, how do you judge who is really a Christian and who is pretending/mistaken?

Now, though I want to be one of God's chosen I to date don't think I have been saved yet. If that tells you anything about my belief. I understand plenty of the bible, but do not feel a supernatural experiencehas happened in my life that I know for sure I am saved.

Wow! Did not know that.

So, Christianity is not a matter of belief and action? It is something more than that?

 

[Just_me_Mike]

I'm not joking. You have been presented with statistics that show a vast majority of people in India and China are not Christians. It is clear that God is not selecting as many of them as he is Americans and Europeans.

Again, how do you judge who is really a Christian and who is pretending/mistaken?

Wow! Did not know that.

So, Christianity is not a matter of belief and action? It is something more than that?

Not sureif this was all an insult to me, but I will try to reply.
Christianity as the majority of the world knows it, is something to do with Jesus and the bible. That is about as deep as it goes for millions that profess to be saved.

The reaity the bible says that when the end comes MANY who find themselves under judgement will say to Jesus "did we not prophoesy in your name?" the bible says Jesus will reply "I knew you not, now depart from me worker of iniquity"

what does it mean to be christian? the bible clearly teaches hardley anyone really knows.

Now the stastitics you refer too for Asia and India, have you ever bee there? so called chritianity is alive and well. Though God works through this to save people. Yes there is other predominant religions there but, the bible is everywhere and that is what God uses to save people. Also the fact that bibles are all over the world, is really and sadly one of the only good things that came out of church growth. If there is someone in asia that is to be saved they will be saved. i can assure you though not all the so called christians in the US will be saved.

In conclusion, it appears God is doing so much in the US, it is mostly man made institutions, that have nothing to do with God

 

[Tristesse]

Not sureif this was all an insult to me, but I will try to reply.
Christianity as the majority of the world knows it, is something to do with Jesus and the bible. That is about as deep as it goes for millions that profess to be saved.

The reaity the bible says that when the end comes MANY who find themselves under judgement will say to Jesus "did we not prophoesy in your name?" the bible says Jesus will reply "I knew you not, now depart from me worker of iniquity"

what does it mean to be christian? the bible clearly teaches hardley anyone really knows.

Now the stastitics you refer too for Asia and India, have you ever bee there? so called chritianity is alive and well. Though God works through this to save people. Yes there is other predominant religions there but, the bible is everywhere and that is what God uses to save people. Also the fact that bibles are all over the world, is really and sadly one of the only good things that came out of church growth. If there is someone in asia that is to be saved they will be saved. i can assure you though not all the so called christians in the US will be saved.

In conclusion, it appears God is doing so much in the US, it is mostly man made institutions, that have nothing to do with God

The bible isn't everywhere. What about the remote parts of africa, where no one has even heard of jesus? Your assertion that the bible is everywhere, is just flat wrong. So, are they going to endure the torments of hell, just because they've never heard of jesus?

 

[Just_me_Mike]

The bible isn't everywhere. What about the remote parts of africa, where no one has even heard of jesus? Your assertion that the bible is everywhere, is just flat wrong. So, are they going to endure the torments of hell, just because they've never heard of jesus?

Has the world ended yet? There is still time. The reality is though there will be people that never had a chance to hear the words of the bible. am I going to be arrogant and stupid eough to tell anyone that God doesn't save them? That is not my business to worry about who is saved. So anyone claiming that an aborignal will never be saved is claiming to know who the elect are. I won't do that.

Believe me I know where you are coming from, and I am just trying to answer according to what the bible teaches.