Do Christians and Muslims Worship the Same God?

[kai]

Kai, I suppose, if one thinks the purpose of scripture was to make one and his tribe smarter and wiser than all others, then there would be no purpose of giving people a scripture. However, if the goal was to enable people to talk to each other and find ways to reflect on their scriptures in a light they may not ordinarily see, then it would make sense to give three different nations three different lights, so the tyrants and maniacs who usually end up in power and destroy these lights could not. Personally, my life has been enriched by people from all three Abrahamic religions.

The thing is their not just slightly different takes on the same theme i could ware that, but they are especially in the case of Islam and Christianity diametrically opposed.

 

[J2hapydna]

The thing is their not just slightly different takes on the same theme i could ware that, but they are especially in the case of Islam and Christianity diametrically opposed.

You know there have to be electrons with protons to make an atom. They also have completely different themes, but they keep the atom whole. Clearly, if what you say is true, then imagine what would have happened to the Gospel and OT by now, had they been left in the custody of the Arabs by God. Today those texts would not exist, with them claiming that these were molested scriptures. However, these scriptures may yet play a major role in reforming Islam one day, but only because those scriptures were not in the hands of the Arabs. Similarly, a day may come when the Quran will be useful to us in some way, that we cannot see right now. After all, Islam played a small role in bringing the light back to Europe thru Spain, when a thousand years of Christianity had failed to unlock Europe's mathematical and scientific potential. Perhaps it will play another role, after it is reformed.

 

[Maimonides]

Once you denote a religion to be the "true religion" consequentially, all other religions, God and all, are necessarily false (or perhaps necessarily mistaken). I believe objectively all Abrahmic faiths worshop the same God since, all Abrahamic faiths believe in the deity Abraham worshipped. As far as the Jewish version of eschatology, if I'm not mistaken non-jews are exempt from the +120 laws Jews have to abide by and follow simply the Noahide laws which are I believe essentially the 10 commandments. Once these laws are followed a gentile can have a place in "the world to come." However if we look at the scriptures of all three, God is the only deity that exist in the universe or pre-universe

 

[Dirty Penguin]

Once you denote a religion to be the "true religion" consequentially, all other religions, God and all, are necessarily false (or perhaps necessarily mistaken). I believe objectively all Abrahmic faiths worshop the same God since, all Abrahamic faiths believe in the deity Abraham worshipped. As far as the Jewish version of eschatology, if I'm not mistaken non-jews are exempt from the +120 laws Jews have to abide by and follow simply the Noahide laws which are I believe essentially the 10 commandments. Once these laws are followed a gentile can have a place in "the world to come." However if we look at the scriptures of all three, God is the only deity that exist in the universe or pre-universe

I was just in a thread about the Noahide religion. From what I can tell, now this may be different with the many schools of thought when it comes to Noahide, but they have 7 laws. In essence they're seem similar to the 10 commandments.

What do you think of trinitarians? While Muslims and Jews, some not all, believe they worship the same god...Trinitarian Christians don't due to their belief in the deity of their Christ (Yeshua-Jesus)....

There's, to me, is a little tricky because while they say they believe in the god of OT..they hold to the belief that the god they reference is Jesus.

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong please....

 

[kai]

Once you denote a religion to be the "true religion" consequentially, all other religions, God and all, are necessarily false (or perhaps necessarily mistaken). I believe objectively all Abrahmic faiths worshop the same God since, all Abrahamic faiths believe in the deity Abraham worshipped. As far as the Jewish version of eschatology, if I'm not mistaken non-jews are exempt from the +120 laws Jews have to abide by and follow simply the Noahide laws which are I believe essentially the 10 commandments. Once these laws are followed a gentile can have a place in "the world to come." However if we look at the scriptures of all three, God is the only deity that exist in the universe or pre-universe

All Abrahamic religions claim to worship the same deity Abraham worshipped. How they know that is of course a different matter,Muslims in fact claim all the prophets including Abraham,Moses and Jesus as prophets of Islam. and Yes all three claim a deity that existed in the universe or pre universe. Its the revelations by their God/Gods that's different like i said Christianity and Islam are totally incompatible at the core.

 

[MyJesusis#1]

Comes down to this.....Muslims call the Word of God a lie. They do not believe that Jesus is the 'ONLY Begotten Son of God.' They do not believe that Jesus is the Savior of the world and the One Who can forgive man of his sins. They do not believe that all knees (including their own) will bow to Jesus. They, like the Jewish race, have cast off God because of their non-belief in Jesus, the Son of God. The muslims have condemned themselves by denying the Word.

 

[Bismillah]

No. But the Jewish and Muslim God can be argued to be the same.

 

[kai]

No. But the Jewish and Muslim God can be argued to be the same.

yes i agree with you in so far as they have much more in common with their perception of God with each other than they both have with christianity

 

[Maimonides]

All Abrahamic religions claim to worship the same deity Abraham worshipped. How they know that is of course a different matter,Muslims in fact claim all the prophets including Abraham,Moses and Jesus as prophets of Islam. and Yes all three claim a deity that existed in the universe or pre universe. Its the revelations by their God/Gods that's different like i said Christianity and Islam are totally incompatible at the core.

Well claim yes however one God is one God. Just as there is only one of me as my family "claims" its only one of me and it turns out to be true, then it is. I tend to think primarily Christians of today seek differences between Islam and the Judeo-Christian traditions (I'm not saying you of course are but typically at least un the U.S).

Because I do speak Arabic/Hebrew I can break it down as far as linguistically (in association to the historical facts that many scholars also argue). When Muslims refer to Allah, there is little phonetical difference when translating it to Hebrew and even Aramaic. Jesus, who historically was a Jew refer to God as Alaha in Aramaic, which is the language spoken by the Jews in that time (as well as Greek). Now because Arabic is apart of the Semitic language how Jews and eventually "Jewish Christians" after Jesus, communicated their faith to the One God in the most common language spoken at the time which was Aramaic.

Since travelling to Jerusalem I actually had the priviledge to speak to some Rabbi's about this matter some time ago and from what I understand Allah or Eloh (Eh-Low) are written the same (when writing Allah in Hebrew script).

Why do all of this matter?

Well, if me and my siblings are going to communicate our needs to our mother (or father) we will address them by the most common name we know, that is most commonly the name "mom" or "dad"-yes it sounds quite retarded but I'll explain. Surely, if we are talking about fundamental differences in addressing the claim of worshipping One God what are the fundamental differences?

For the Christian, Jesus is god. Well, ok but historically that wasn't the case when Jesus existed according to some Biblical scholars. Also, Constantine the ruler of the Byzantine period, had a great influence as to how Jesus' divinity would be addressed which was to combat Arianism. But heck, even Jesus himself made the distinction perfectly when he said:

"Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I"-John 14:28

Now surely, if Jesus was God the Creator and God the human in one body why make such a confusing distinction? I'm sure Christians would come up with a bunch of non-scholarly excuses but that is besides the point.

The fact that Christians hold Jesus to be God incarnate is not a divine epiphany as Paul expressed on the road to Damascus, but rather the result of royal influence. Now, when it comes to Jews, Jews simply reject Jesus as the Messiah and God because

1) Christianity broke away from Jewish tradition when you make God into a human

2) Jesus failed his mission as the messiah since, there are certain criteria as expressed in Jewish theology that will dictate if the messiah is real. One good example I read was there would be peace on Earth when the messiah comes (How many wars has the earth been through since Jesus' departure?)

The "Jewish Christians" according to scholars have mentioned that during Jesus' time they would observe Jewish customs (observed Sabbath etc) and even in the Bible, Jesus in the temple recited the Sh'ma Yisrael (Hear O'israel the Lord our God is One)-which contradicts the trinitarian philosophy. The only break of these traditions we know is when Paul came.

Again fundamental differences weren't the result of any divine influence or metaphysical influence but because of historical figures and in psychology as we psychologist would say the "zeitgeist" changed religious history.

Now, with respect to Islam and Judaism Islam strictly enforces strict monotheism. God is one, indivisible, no partners, no equals, or any partners co-equal. The same principle is mentioned by Jews. Jews and Muslims don't say God cannot come in the form of a human and save the world as expressed by Christians, but they say (from what I read) God's morphing in human form to sacrifice himself for the would runs counter to the abilities God has. For instance, God can create the entire universe with all its complexity and chaos but in order to save puny organic matter aka human beings he needs to change into a human and die on a piece of carved wood.

Jews and Muslims may find Christians mistaken, but me personally looking at the historical aspect-Christians believe in One God (Eloh, Alaha, YHVH, or whatever you call God).

The only significant difference I personally see after my extensive readings is the difference in prophetic figures (Jesus, Muhammad). Jews don't acknowledge Muhammad, but Jews acknowledge that Muslims worship the God of Avraham because one of the philosophies Jews express is that in the Noahide code, believing in One God is one of the laws a gentile has to follow to have a place in the world to come so there is no rejection of Islamic monotheism in Judaism.

For the hard headed Christian, without mentioning Jesus being God or whatever, a Muslim can say there is only one God in this universe-A Christian might reply (yes Jesus) and so on and so forth and they both get into an argument. But at its core without the specifics, if you simply focus on the theological aspect looking at the Sh'ma Yisrael, The Holy Qur'an, and parts of the Bible-All three faiths believe in One Creator. One God is One God, and the only mistakes we can find are the specifics but as I mentioned with respect to Christianity those specifics came way after Jesus died and were not of any divine providence. Sorry this was a long winded post.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

yes i agree with you in so far as they have much more in common with their perception of God with each other than they both have with christianity

Now this I do agree with....:yes:

 

[Dirty Penguin]

Comes down to this.....Muslims call the Word of God a lie. They do not believe that Jesus is the 'ONLY Begotten Son of God.' They do not believe that Jesus is the Savior of the world and the One Who can forgive man of his sins. They do not believe that all knees (including their own) will bow to Jesus. They, like the Jewish race, have cast off God because of their non-belief in Jesus, the Son of God. The muslims have condemned themselves by denying the Word.

You repeated this same mantra in another thread.....Look at you standing in judgment of others....If there truly is a "God" you have no idea if your interpretation is true over another......:sarcastic

 

[kai]

Well claim yes however one God is one God. Just as there is only one of me as my family "claims" its only one of me and it turns out to be true, then it is. I tend to think primarily Christians of today seek differences between Islam and the Judeo-Christian traditions (I'm not saying you of course are but typically at least un the U.S).I think Christians do emphasise the difference because the admit its there.

Because I do speak Arabic/Hebrew I can break it down as far as linguistically (in association to the historical facts that many scholars also argue). When Muslims refer to Allah, there is little phonetical difference when translating it to Hebrew and even Aramaic. Jesus, who historically was a Jew refer to God as Alaha in Aramaic, which is the language spoken by the Jews in that time (as well as Greek). Now because Arabic is apart of the Semitic language how Jews and eventually "Jewish Christians" after Jesus, communicated their faith to the One God in the most common language spoken at the time which was Aramaic. I dont think the word God is proof that all Gods are one God because we call them God.

Since travelling to Jerusalem I actually had the priviledge to speak to some Rabbi's about this matter some time ago and from what I understand Allah or Eloh (Eh-Low) are written the same (when writing Allah in Hebrew script). Sure but i dont think thats relevant proof of anything other than the word God is the same not that their perception of God is the same.

Why do all of this matter?

Well, if me and my siblings are going to communicate our needs to our mother (or father) we will address them by the most common name we know, that is most commonly the name "mom" or "dad"-yes it sounds quite retarded but I'll explain. Surely, if we are talking about fundamental differences in addressing the claim of worshipping One God what are the fundamental differences?

For the Christian, Jesus is god. Well, ok but historically that wasn't the case when Jesus existed according to some Biblical scholars. Also, Constantine the ruler of the Byzantine period, had a great influence as to how Jesus' divinity would be addressed which was to combat Arianism. But heck, even Jesus himself made the distinction perfectly when he said:

"Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I"-John 14:28

Now surely, if Jesus was God the Creator and God the human in one body why make such a confusing distinction? I'm sure Christians would come up with a bunch of non-scholarly excuses but that is besides the point.

The fact that Christians hold Jesus to be God incarnate is not a divine epiphany as Paul expressed on the road to Damascus, but rather the result of royal influence. Now, when it comes to Jews, Jews simply reject Jesus as the Messiah and God because

1) Christianity broke away from Jewish tradition when you make God into a human

2) Jesus failed his mission as the messiah since, there are certain criteria as expressed in Jewish theology that will dictate if the messiah is real. One good example I read was there would be peace on Earth when the messiah comes (How many wars has the earth been through since Jesus' departure?)

The "Jewish Christians" according to scholars have mentioned that during Jesus' time they would observe Jewish customs (observed Sabbath etc) and even in the Bible, Jesus in the temple recited the Sh'ma Yisrael (Hear O'israel the Lord our God is One)-which contradicts the trinitarian philosophy. The only break of these traditions we know is when Paul came.

Again fundamental differences weren't the result of any divine influence or metaphysical influence but because of historical figures and in psychology as we psychologist would say

well lets stick to current perceptions of the Christian God because that's what a christian today basis his God on.

Now, with respect to Islam and Judaism Islam strictly enforces strict monotheism. God is one, indivisible, no partners, no equals, or any partners co-equal. The same principle is mentioned by Jews. Jews and Muslims don't say God cannot come in the form of a human and save the world as expressed by Christians, but they say (from what I read) God's morphing in human form to sacrifice himself for the would runs counter to the abilities God has. For instance, God can create the entire universe with all its complexity and chaos but in order to save puny organic matter aka human beings he needs to change into a human and die on a piece of carved wood.

Jews and Muslims may find Christians mistaken, but me personally looking at the historical aspect-Christians believe in One God (Eloh, Alaha, YHVH, or whatever you call God).

The only significant difference I personally see after my extensive readings is the difference in prophetic figures (Jesus, Muhammad). Jews don't acknowledge Muhammad, but Jews acknowledge that Muslims worship the God of Avraham because one of the philosophies Jews express is that in the Noahide code, believing in One God is one of the laws a gentile has to follow to have a place in the world to come so there is no rejection of Islamic monotheism in Judaism.

For the hard headed Christian, without mentioning Jesus being God or whatever, a Muslim can say there is only one God in this universe-A Christian might reply (yes Jesus) and so on and so forth and they both get into an argument. But at its core without the specifics, if you simply focus on the theological aspect looking at the Sh'ma Yisrael, The Holy Qur'an, and parts of the Bible-All three faiths believe in One Creator. One God is One God, and the only mistakes we can find are the specifics but as I mentioned with respect to Christianity those specifics came way after Jesus died and were not of any divine providence. Sorry this was a long winded post.

Lets focus on what actually people use to forge the perception of god in their minds eye , thats revelation.


Muslims use the Quran so the descriptions and attributes of their god are taken from there. people perceive their god in their minds eye from the information they have .

Christians base their perception of God on the Gospels . so the decriptions and attributes of their god are taken from their. They perceive their god in their minds eye from the information they have .



These two sources of information with which people "perceive" their God are not compatible. sure you can so "oh that's irrelevant its the same God anyway", but in order to do that you would have to ignore one source of revelation or the other. My question has always been how different can the God in a worshippers minds eye become from a set of scripture till it actually becomes another god ?

How different can the perception of God to a Christian in London worshipping Jesus in a church be, to a Bedouin praying to Allah in Jordan before they no longer have any similar attributes or characteristics and they in fact are no longer worshipping the same god .

 

[Maimonides]

Lets focus on what actually people use to forge the perception of god in their minds eye , thats revelation.


Muslims use the Quran so the descriptions and attributes of their god are taken from there. people perceive their god in their minds eye from the information they have .

Christians base their perception of God on the Gospels . so the decriptions and attributes of their god are taken from their. They perceive their god in their minds eye from the information they have .



These two sources of information with which people "perceive" their God are not compatible. sure you can so "oh that's irrelevant its the same God anyway", but in order to do that you would have to ignore one source of revelation or the other. My question has always been how different can the God in a worshippers minds eye become from a set of scripture till it actually becomes another god ?

How different can the perception of God to a Christian in London worshipping Jesus in a church be, to a Bedouin praying to Allah in Jordan before they no longer have any similar attributes or characteristics and they in fact are no longer worshipping the same god .

Like I said God is God. Allah in Jordan is the same God a Christian from 40 AD worshipped. Like I said one God is One God why is it difficult to understand?

 

[kai]

Like I said God is God. Allah in Jordan is the same God a Christian from 40 AD worshipped. Like I said one God is One God why is it difficult to understand?

Its not hard to understand ! you have done exactly as i said ,if you ignore revelation its totally understandable, its easy that way.

 

[kingsherald]

Not at all. Christians which are truly born of God, worship the only God who actually exists. Jesus said if you have the Son, you have the Father also. And if you do not have the Son of God, you do not have the Father either. Only believers in the Lord Jesus Christ, born of the Spirit of God, worship the true and living God, because these alone have the Son of God, the Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[kai]

Not at all. Christians which are truly born of God, worship the only God who actually exists. Jesus said if you have the Son, you have the Father also. And if you do not have the Son of God, you do not have the Father either. Only believers in the Lord Jesus Christ, born of the Spirit of God, worship the true and living God, because these alone have the Son of God, the Lord Jesus Christ.

well there you go! in order to believe that, you must ignore or deny the revelation to Mohamed (pbuh)

 

[kingsherald]

well there you go! in order to believe that, you must ignore or deny the revelation to Mohamed (pbuh)

You said it! Not only that, I also deny the apocrypha of the Roman Catholic Church, since those texts do not agree with the whole of Biblical revelation. For this reason, and many others, including their high view of tradition, and Popish decree, on par with or above the Bible, I say the RCC are not Christians either!

 

[Maimonides]

Its not hard to understand ! you have done exactly as i said ,if you ignore revelation its totally understandable, its easy that way.

Well, of course you inevitably ignore the specifics in revelation if you evaluate modern Abrahamic faiths-I say modern, because a lot of things regarding the nature of God changed since these religions came on the scene.

 

[Maimonides]

To say God is "living" is a limiting term. To live implies mortality but I know "living god" is another way of saying existing but my point is, to King that Muslims believe in one God....If you read the Qur'an in the Exordium (The Opening) it reads "All praises are due to God Lord of the Worlds."

Simple question, is the God you worship Lord of the Worlds (Universe)?

 

[kai]

To say God is "living" is a limiting term. To live implies mortality but I know "living god" is another way of saying existing but my point is, to King that Muslims believe in one God....If you read the Qur'an in the Exordium (The Opening) it reads "All praises are due to God Lord of the Worlds."

Simple question, is the God you worship Lord of the Worlds (Universe)?

If that question is to me , i don't believe in Gods.But if i did i am sure it would be lord of the universe . i mean why settle for anything less?