Do disagreements between Baha'is have any significance for anyone else?

[TransmutingSoul]

Did Bahaullah declare and claim Kitab-i-Aqdas as "The Most Holy Book" or this claim about the book is made by the Bahais, please?

Bahá'u'lláh's book of laws was written in Arabic and its Arabic title is al-Kitab al- Aqdas.

Its Persian title, which was given the work by Bahá'u'lláh himself is Kitab- i-Aqdas.

It is sometimes called "the Aqdas," "the Most Holy Book," "the Book of Laws," and occasionally "the Book of Aqdas." It is also referred to as "the Mother-Book" of the Bahá'í Revelation (Reference GPB 325, 411)

Regards Tony

 

[paarsurrey]

Bahá'u'lláh's book of laws was written in Arabic and its Arabic title is al-Kitab al- Aqdas.

Its Persian title, which was given the work by Bahá'u'lláh himself is Kitab- i-Aqdas.

It is sometimes called "the Aqdas," "the Most Holy Book," "the Book of Laws," and occasionally "the Book of Aqdas." It is also referred to as "the Mother-Book" of the Bahá'í Revelation (Reference GPB 325, 411)

Regards Tony

So it was not named "The most Holy Book" by Bahaullah. Was the Title "Aqdas" in Arabic given by Bahaullah himself?

Regards

 

[TransmutingSoul]

So it was not named "The most Holy Book" by Bahaullah. Was the Title "Aqdas" in Arabic given by Bahaullah himself?

Regards

You asked a good question, as I had not studied this before.

From what I understand both the Arabic and Persian titles were revealed by Baha'u'llah.

I will now look into this further so I will be aware where all these titles originated from.

Thank you.

Regards Tony

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Does any of that have any significance for anyone else but Baha'is? I see other people besides Baha'is discussing the Baha'i Faith. Does that divergence in Baha'i interpretations of Baha'i scriptures, and the absence of any Baha'i or Baha'i institution claiming that their interpretations have any authority, make any difference to anyone besides Baha'is, in how you think about the Baha'i Faith?

If I was inclined toward the Baha’i faith, it would matter to me.

IMO, if sincere believers both reading the same scripture can’t reach a consensus on important issues, then this is a sign that the scripture isn’t communicating as clearly as we would expect if it came from God.

Of course, agreement among believers is only one of the criteria that matter, and for me, you’re well short of the point where that would make the difference.

 

[paarsurrey]

You asked a good question, as I had not studied this before.

From what I understand both the Arabic and Persian titles were revealed by Baha'u'llah.

I will now look into this further so I will be aware where all these titles originated from.

Thank you.

Regards Tony

Thanks for one's reply.
I wait for one's search. If Bahaullah named it "Aqdas" then please quote from Bahaullah in this connection. I am also interested whether it is mentioned in the "Aqdas" itself. If not, why not ?
Please note that I am comparing "Aqdas" with Quran, which gives claims and reasons, in brief, itself.

Regards

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Thanks for one's reply.
I wait for one's search. If Bahaullah named it "Aqdas" then please quote from Bahaullah in this connection. I am also interested whether it is mentioned in the "Aqdas" itself. If not, why not ?
Please note that I am comparing "Aqdas" with Quran, which gives claims and reasons, in brief, itself.

Regards

I would consider that the Book is its own balance. The Koran is its own Testimony.

Thus I would see the Works of the Bab and Baha'u'llah would also stand on their own Merit, but at the same time complement the previous Scriptures, as does the Koran with the Bible and Tankra.

I will let you know what I find, if I get a chance. It is good to know that no ones Faith should depend upon another's search. We are each responsible for our own Faith.

Regards Tony

 

[paarsurrey]

I would consider that the Book is its own balance. The Koran is its own Testimony.
Thus I would see the Works of the Bab and Baha'u'llah would also stand on their own Merit, but at the same time complement the previous Scriptures, as does the Koran with the Bible and Tankra.
I will let you know what I find, if I get a chance. It is good to know that no ones Faith should depend upon another's search. We are each responsible for our own Faith.
Regards Tony

It is one aspect of the truthfulness of Quran that it gives claims and reason itself.
Let us compare if that feature is also there in Kitab-i-Aqdas, "The Most Holy Book" of Bahaullah.

Regards

 

[TransmutingSoul]

It is one aspect of the truthfulness of Quran that it gives claims and reason itself.
Let us compare if that feature is also there in Kitab-i-Aqdas, "The Most Holy Book" of Bahaullah.

Regards

Baha'ullah wrote over 100 volumes of Writings. All those Writings are 'Most Holy', the Book of Laws is part of all these writings, the required balance for Humanity in this age.

Baha'u'llah has said about the whole Message from Allah;

"THE world’s equilibrium hath been upset through the vibrating influence of this most great, this new World Order. Mankind’s ordered life hath been revolutionized through the agency of this unique, this wondrous System—the like of which mortal eyes have never witnessed.
Immerse yourselves in the ocean of My words, that ye may unravel its secrets, and discover all the pearls of wisdom that lie hid in its depths. Take heed that ye do not vacillate in your determination to embrace the truth of this Cause—a Cause through which the potentialities of the might of God have been revealed, and His sovereignty established. With faces beaming with joy, hasten ye unto Him. This is the changeless Faith of God, eternal in the past, eternal in the future. Let him that seeketh, attain it; and as to him that hath refused to seek it—verily, God is Self-Sufficient, above any need of His creatures.
Say: This is the infallible Balance which the Hand of God is holding, in which all who are in the heavens and all who are on the earth are weighed, and their fate determined, if ye be of them that believe and recognize this truth. Say: Through it the poor have been enriched, the learned enlightened, and the seekers enabled to ascend unto the presence of God. Beware, lest ye make it a cause of dissension amongst you. Be ye as firmly settled as the immovable mountain in the Cause of your Lord, the Mighty, the Loving."

Regards Tony

 

[siti]

The most Baha'is disputing with anyone about theology, that I've ever seen or heard of, have been less than thirty, and only in Internet discussions.

That is a very important point @Jim - and one that I have unintentionally fallen into the trap of overlooking. The handful of Baha'is on RF are almost certainly not representative of the whole (I mean if they were, I suppose there would be far more of them here) - I don't know - and we (I) have to remember that. I am honestly grateful to all of them for helping me to learn more about the Baha'i faith - of which I was previously almost completely ignorant. But at the same time, perhaps I need to poll information more widely among Baha'is themselves (real flesh and blood ones not online avatars). I believe there is a Baha'i centre (or whatever its called) in Suva - maybe I'll pay a visit sometime - I presume visitors can drop in uninvited?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

That is a very important point @Jim - and one that I have unintentionally fallen into the trap of overlooking. The handful of Baha'is on RF are almost certainly not representative of the whole

This is something I try to remind myself.

Almost all of the Baha'i members I've seen posting here seem very eager to proselytize and push their beliefs on others, despite the fact that they also say that proselytizing is forbidden in their religion. I find myself having to pull back from my knee-jerk reaction of dismissing the religion as hypocritical. Instead, I remind myself that any non-proselytizing Baha'is probably wouldn't be pushing their beliefs online and because of this, they'd escape my notice.

 

[Vinayaka]

This is something I try to remind myself.

Almost all of the Baha'i members I've seen posting here seem very eager to proselytize and push their beliefs on others, despite the fact that they also say that proselytizing is forbidden in their religion. I find myself having to pull back from my knee-jerk reaction of dismissing the religion as hypocritical. Instead, I remind myself that any non-proselytizing Baha'is probably wouldn't be pushing their beliefs online and because of this, they'd escape my notice.

I've read quite a few testimonies of ex-Bahai and one of the common themes, if not the most common theme, as a reason for leaving is the overemphasis on proselytizing, From that, I believe this sample on RF is fairly representative. The ones who are really over the top would get banned for breaking forum rules.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I've read quite a few testimonies of ex-Bahai and one of the common themes, if not the most common theme, as a reason for leaving is the overemphasis on proselytizing, From that, I believe this sample on RF is fairly representative. The ones who are really over the top would get banned for breaking forum rules.

Given what I see, many proselytize their view, intentionally or unintentionally. Many are still deciding where that line is in this matter.

Thus I see a trigger is required in the banning process and it may be the best at proselytizing, use that trigger.

Regards Tony

 

[paarsurrey]

Baha'ullah wrote over 100 volumes of Writings. All those Writings are 'Most Holy', the Book of Laws is part of all these writings, the required balance for Humanity in this age.

Baha'u'llah has said about the whole Message from Allah;

"THE world’s equilibrium hath been upset through the vibrating influence of this most great, this new World Order. Mankind’s ordered life hath been revolutionized through the agency of this unique, this wondrous System—the like of which mortal eyes have never witnessed.
Immerse yourselves in the ocean of My words, that ye may unravel its secrets, and discover all the pearls of wisdom that lie hid in its depths. Take heed that ye do not vacillate in your determination to embrace the truth of this Cause—a Cause through which the potentialities of the might of God have been revealed, and His sovereignty established. With faces beaming with joy, hasten ye unto Him. This is the changeless Faith of God, eternal in the past, eternal in the future. Let him that seeketh, attain it; and as to him that hath refused to seek it—verily, God is Self-Sufficient, above any need of His creatures.
Say: This is the infallible Balance which the Hand of God is holding, in which all who are in the heavens and all who are on the earth are weighed, and their fate determined, if ye be of them that believe and recognize this truth. Say: Through it the poor have been enriched, the learned enlightened, and the seekers enabled to ascend unto the presence of God. Beware, lest ye make it a cause of dissension amongst you. Be ye as firmly settled as the immovable mountain in the Cause of your Lord, the Mighty, the Loving."

Regards Tony

"Baha'ullah wrote over 100 volumes of Writings. All those Writings are 'Most Holy' " Unquote.

Sorry.
It is not a point of pride for Bahaullah:

1. If Quran in just one volume, a compact book, gives claims and reasons, and it fits in the pocket of my shirt, then Bahaullah need not have written 100 volumes of Writings.
2. And Bahaullah named only one of them as Kitab-i-Aqdas, "The Most Holy Book". Then other "over 100 volumes of Writings" cannot be Most Holy as one has stated.
3. And yet with "over 100 volumes of Writings " Bahaullah could not bring one new practical and lasting teaching/commandment that is not in Quran already.

Regards
____________
[98:3]
A Messenger from Allah, reciting unto them the pure Scriptures.
[[98:4]
Therein are lasting commandments.
The Holy Quran - Chapter: 98: Al-Bayyinah

 

[paarsurrey]

This is something I try to remind myself.

Almost all of the Baha'i members I've seen posting here seem very eager to proselytize and push their beliefs on others, despite the fact that they also say that proselytizing is forbidden in their religion. I find myself having to pull back from my knee-jerk reaction of dismissing the religion as hypocritical. Instead, I remind myself that any non-proselytizing Baha'is probably wouldn't be pushing their beliefs online and because of this, they'd escape my notice.

Let them do it, no harm in it. Friends here are taking care of them appropriately.

Regards

 

[TransmutingSoul]

"Baha'ullah wrote over 100 volumes of Writings. All those Writings are 'Most Holy' " Unquote.

Sorry.
It is not a point of pride for Bahaullah:

1. If Quran in just one volume, a compact book, gives claims and reasons, and it fits in the pocket of my shirt, then Bahaullah need not have written 100 volumes of Writings.
2. And Bahaullah named only one of them as Kitab-i-Aqdas, "The Most Holy Book". Then other "over 100 volumes of Writings" cannot be Most Holy as one has stated.
3. And yet with "over 100 volumes of Writings " Bahaullah could not bring one new practical and lasting teaching/commandment that is not in Quran already.

Regards
____________
[98:3]
A Messenger from Allah, reciting unto them the pure Scriptures.
[[98:4]
Therein are lasting commandments.
The Holy Quran - Chapter: 98: Al-Bayyinah

Baha'u'llah has written a pocket size book that contains the Inner Essence of the Quran.

It is called the Hidden Words.

The Hidden Words | Bahá’í Reference Library

"HE IS THE GLORY OF GLORIES

THIS is that which hath descended from the realm of glory, uttered by the tongue of power and might, and revealed unto the Prophets of old. We have taken the inner essence thereof and clothed it in the garment of brevity, as a token of grace unto the righteous, that they may stand faithful unto the Covenant of God, may fulfill in their lives His trust, and in the realm of spirit obtain the gem of divine virtue."

That may be a better work to pursue.

Regards Tony

 

[paarsurrey]

Baha'u'llah has written a pocket size book that contains the Inner Essence of the Quran.

It is called the Hidden Words.

The Hidden Words | Bahá’í Reference Library

"HE IS THE GLORY OF GLORIES

THIS is that which hath descended from the realm of glory, uttered by the tongue of power and might, and revealed unto the Prophets of old. We have taken the inner essence thereof and clothed it in the garment of brevity, as a token of grace unto the righteous, that they may stand faithful unto the Covenant of God, may fulfill in their lives His trust, and in the realm of spirit obtain the gem of divine virtue."

That may be a better work to pursue.

Regards Tony

That does not answer my post, please. Does it, please?
I intend to study only One core book of Bahaullah and see its contents with comparison with Quran, please.

Regards

 

[paarsurrey]

Bahá'u'lláh's book of laws was written in Arabic and its Arabic title is al-Kitab al- Aqdas.

Its Persian title, which was given the work by Bahá'u'lláh himself is Kitab- i-Aqdas.

It is sometimes called "the Aqdas," "the Most Holy Book," "the Book of Laws," and occasionally "the Book of Aqdas." It is also referred to as "the Mother-Book" of the Bahá'í Revelation (Reference GPB 325, 411)

Regards Tony

Was the title "al-Kitab al- Aqdas" given to it by Bahaullah himself or by someone else, please?

Regards

 

[TransmutingSoul]

That does not answer my post, please. Does it, please?
I intend to study only One core book of Bahaullah and see its contents with comparison with Quran, please.

Regards

Thank you paarsurry.

I was only offering that in my opinion any writing of Baha'u'llah is a core work.

What one must understand is that the Book of Laws by Baha'u'llah is composed from many of Baha'u'llahs writings. In that way it is like the Koran where the laws of the Dispensation are given in different Surah's. Thus one might read a Tablet to the Shah and find a law for this dispensation revealed.

Peace be with you, regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Was the title "al-Kitab al- Aqdas" given to it by Bahaullah himself or by someone else, please?

Regards

Baha'u'llah named the Tablet.

"The Kitáb-i-Aqdas or Aqdas is the central book of the Bahá'í Faith written by Bahá'u'lláh, the founder of the religion, in 1873. The work was written in Arabic under the Arabic title al-Kitābu l-Aqdas (Arabic: الكتاب الأقدس‎), but it is commonly referred to by its Persian title, Kitáb-i-Aqdas (Persian: كتاب اقدس‎), which was given to the work by Bahá'u'lláh himself. It is sometimes also referred to as "the Most Holy Book", "the Book of Laws" or the Book of Aqdas. The word Aqdas has a significance in many languages as the superlative form of a word with its primary letters Q-D-Š.

Kitáb-i-Aqdas - Wikipedia

As noted above in another reply;

"...While it is the core text on laws of the religion, it is not the exclusive source of laws in the religion, nor of Bahá'u'lláh's own writings, and complementarily the reader is told explicitly to not view the text as a "mere code of laws".

Regards Tony

 

[England my lionheart]

Sometimes there are wide divergences between Baha'is in our interpretations of Baha'i scriptures. Some examples are in relation to homosexuality and gay marriage, the ineligibility of women for election to our supreme council, the nature and scope of that council's authority, the future role of the Baha'i Faith and its institutions in society, and even the divinity and infallibility of Baha'u'llah and the reality or existence of G_d. In my reading of Baha'i scriptures, no person or institution today has any authority to say that any of those interpretations are right or wrong, but that's only my personal opinion. There might be Baha'is who disagree with that. On the other hand, I don't see anyone, including the Universal House of Justice, claiming to have that authority.

Does any of that have any significance for anyone else but Baha'is? I see other people besides Baha'is discussing the Baha'i Faith. Does that divergence in Baha'i interpretations of Baha'i scriptures, and the absence of any Baha'i or Baha'i institution claiming that their interpretations have any authority, make any difference to anyone besides Baha'is, in how you think about the Baha'i Faith?

I personally think its good that the Baha'i faith has no significance in my life, being stuck in a box of belief doesn't appeal to me but of course that's jmo but if it's adherents can critique and see that it's wrong to exclude women from a "supreme council" it's at least going somewhere Imo.