Do disagreements between Baha'is have any significance for anyone else?

[Trailblazer]

Sometimes there are wide divergences between Baha'is in our interpretations of Baha'i scriptures. Some examples are in relation to homosexuality and gay marriage, the ineligibility of women for election to our supreme council, the nature and scope of that council's authority, the future role of the Baha'i Faith and its institutions in society, and even the divinity and infallibility of Baha'u'llah and the reality or existence of G_d. In my reading of Baha'i scriptures, no person or institution today has any authority to say that any of those interpretations are right or wrong, but that's only my personal opinion. There might be Baha'is who disagree with that. On the other hand, I don't see anyone, including the Universal House of Justice, claiming to have that authority.

Does any of that have any significance for anyone else but Baha'is? I see other people besides Baha'is discussing the Baha'i Faith. Does that divergence in Baha'i interpretations of Baha'i scriptures, and the absence of any Baha'i or Baha'i institution claiming that their interpretations have any authority, make any difference to anyone besides Baha'is, in how you think about the Baha'i Faith?

There is no need for anyone to interpret the Baha’i scriptures because the meanings are easily understandable. Not only do we have what Baha’u’llah wrote, but we also have the interpretations of the Writings of Baha’u’llah made by Abdu’l-Baha and Shoghi Effendi, who were appointed interpreters by virtue of the Covenant. So to argue with any one of them is akin to breaking the Covenant in which case one is really not a Baha’i.

The only reason some Baha’is argue about the Writings is because (a) they are not deepened in the Writings so they do not really understand what they mean, and/or (b) they disagree with the Writings and wish it was not true that for example homosexuality has been outlawed by Baha’u’llah (for Baha’is) and that women are disallowed form serving on the UHJ. But to be rather blunt, that is tough tiddlywinks, because arguing against these is akin to arguing with Baha’u’llah, which is akin to arguing with God, which is illogical, because God is infallible. As my husband always says, if Baha’is argue with any of what Baha’u’llah, Abdu’l-Baha, or Shoghi Effendi wrote, they are not really Baha’is anymore. I do not give a freaking rip if this sounds dogmatic to non-Baha’is, as Baha’is do not have pleasing people as one of their responsibilities, and doing so is dishonest.

There is absolutely NO question about the infallibility of Baha’u’llah. This is clearly stated in the Writings.

“Say: This is the infallible Balance which the Hand of God is holding, in which all who are in the heavens and all who are on the earth are weighed, and their fate determined, if ye be of them that believe and recognize this truth. Say: Through it the poor have been enriched, the learned enlightened, and the seekers enabled to ascend unto the presence of God. Beware, lest ye make it a cause of dissension amongst you. Be ye as firmly settled as the immovable mountain in the Cause of your Lord, the Mighty, the Loving.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 136-137

“Tear asunder, in My Name, the veils that have grievously blinded your vision, and, through the power born of your belief in the unity of God, scatter the idols of vain imitation. Enter, then, the holy paradise of the good-pleasure of the All-Merciful. Sanctify your souls from whatsoever is not of God, and taste ye the sweetness of rest within the pale of His vast and mighty Revelation, and beneath the shadow of His supreme and infallible authority.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 143

“We can well perceive how the whole human race is encompassed with great, with incalculable afflictions. We see it languishing on its bed of sickness, sore-tried and disillusioned. They that are intoxicated by self-conceit have interposed themselves between it and the Divine and infallible Physician. Witness how they have entangled all men, themselves included, in the mesh of their devices. They can neither discover the cause of the disease, nor have they any knowledge of the remedy. They have conceived the straight to be crooked, and have imagined their friend an enemy.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 213​

As for the existence of God, there would be no Baha’i Faith if God did not exist since the entire Baha’i Faith is based upon a Revelation from God. There cannot be a Revelation from a God that does not exist.

“The Revelation which, from time immemorial, hath been acclaimed as the Purpose and Promise of all the Prophets of God, and the most cherished Desire of His Messengers, hath now, by virtue of the pervasive Will of the Almighty and at His irresistible bidding, been revealed unto men.The advent of such a Revelation hath been heralded in all the sacred Scriptures. Behold how, notwithstanding such an announcement, mankind hath strayed from its path and shut out itself from its glory.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 5

“Call out to Zion, O Carmel, and announce the joyful tidings: He that was hidden from mortal eyes is come! His all-conquering sovereignty is manifest; His all-encompassing splendor is revealed. Beware lest thou hesitate or halt. Hasten forth and circumambulate the City of God that hath descended from heaven, the celestial Kaaba round which have circled in adoration the favored of God, the pure in heart, and the company of the most exalted angels. Oh, how I long to announce unto every spot on the surface of the earth, and to carry to each one of its cities, the glad-tidings of this Revelation—a Revelation to which the heart of Sinai hath been attracted, and in whose name the Burning Bush is calling: ‘Unto God, the Lord of Lords, belong the kingdoms of earth and heaven.’ Verily this is the Day in which both land and sea rejoice at this announcement, the Day for which have been laid up those things which God, through a bounty beyond the ken of mortal mind or heart, hath destined for revelation. Ere long will God sail His Ark upon thee, and will manifest the people of Bahá who have been mentioned in the Book of Names.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 16​

“God,” said He, “is My witness, O people! I am come to you with a Revelation from the Lord, your God, the Lord of your fathers of old. Look not, O people, at the things ye possess. Look rather at the things God hath sent down unto you. This, surely, will be better for you than the whole of creation, could ye but perceive it. Repeat the gaze, O people, and consider the testimony of God and His proof which are in your possession, and compare them unto the Revelation sent down unto you in this Day, that the truth, the infallible truth, may be indubitably manifested unto you. Follow not, O people, the steps of the Evil One; follow ye the Faith of the All-Merciful, and be ye of them that truly believe. What would it profit man, if he were to fail to recognize the Revelation of God? Nothing whatever. To this Mine own Self, the Omnipotent, the Omniscient, the All-Wise, will testify.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 146​

 

[Trailblazer]

I have always investigated truth about a revealed religion from the core books of a religion. I don't see any religion from the eyes of their opposing religions or from the followers of even that religion. So, I write for myself and from my own experience of the said religion's truthful founder from his core book.

In this context, I am least interested in what the Baha’is believe and whether they differ among themselves or not. I am interested in Bahaullah and his core book Kitab-i-Aqdas- "The Most Holy Book", and seeing it with a comparison with Quran.

That is a smart way to go about research. One must read what the Founder of the religion revealed. Baha'u'llah as much as said this in The Kitáb-i-Íqán, which is considered the second most holy book.

“The essence of these words is this: they that tread the path of faith, they that thirst for the wine of certitude, must cleanse themselves of all that is earthly—their ears from idle talk, their minds from vain imaginings, their hearts from worldly affections, their eyes from that which perisheth. They should put their trust in God, and, holding fast unto Him, follow in His way. Then will they be made worthy of the effulgent glories of the sun of divine knowledge and understanding, and become the recipients of a grace that is infinite and unseen, inasmuch as man can never hope to attain unto the knowledge of the All-Glorious, can never quaff from the stream of divine knowledge and wisdom, can never enter the abode of immortality, nor partake of the cup of divine nearness and favour, unless and until he ceases to regard the words and deeds of mortal men as a standard for the true understanding and recognition of God and His Prophets.” The Kitáb-i-Íqán, pp. 3-4​

What it essentially says in bold italics at the end is that we will never discover the truth for ourselves if we use the deeds of mortal men as a standard by which to understand God and His Prophets.In other words, we cannot measure truth according to what other people think or do.

That is precisely why all this talk about Baha’is disagreeing on certain matters amounts to nothing at all. It is time wasted.

Did Bahaullah declare and claim Kitab-i-Aqdas as "The Most Holy Book" or this claim about the book is made by the Bahais, please?

Any Bahai or everyone of the Bahai friends on this forum or a non-Bahai could respond freely.
It is a simple question, so please answer it in a straightforward and unequivocal manner, please.

I cannot answer that definitively, but I am pretty sure that it was considered The Most Holy Book by those who compiled the Book. You can read the Preface and the Introduction to get a general idea about the Book.

The Kitáb-i-Aqdas, Preface
The Kitáb-i-Aqdas, Introduction

 

[Trailblazer]

If I was inclined toward the Baha’i faith, it would matter to me.

IMO, if sincere believers both reading the same scripture can’t reach a consensus on important issues, then this is a sign that the scripture isn’t communicating as clearly as we would expect if it came from God.

Of course, agreement among believers is only one of the criteria that matter, and for me, you’re well short of the point where that would make the difference.

You cannot assume that it is a sign that the scripture is not clearly written. Although there is some scripture that could be interpreted in slightly different ways, the core meaning cannot be disputed. So what happens is that the individual egos of Baha’is get involved and try to say it does not mean what it clearly says, just so they can argue against it and have what they want. This is no different from what Christians do, but I am ashamed to be a Baha’is when I see Baha’is doing this.

For example, there are Baha’is who will try to say that Baha’u’llah never outlawed homosexual sex... What is this then?

From The Kitáb-i-Aqdas – The Most Holy Book of the Baha’i Faith, the Book of Laws:

“The Bahá’í teachings on sexual morality centre on marriage and the family as the bedrock of the whole structure of human society and are designed to protect and strengthen that divine institution. Bahá’í law thus restricts permissible sexual intercourse to that between a man and the woman to whom he is married.”
The Kitáb-i-Aqdas, p. 223

Of course, agreement among believers is only one of the criteria that matter, and for me, you’re well short of the point where that would make the difference.

Agreement among believers has absolutely no bearing on whether Baha’u’llah was a Manifestation of God or not. Humans are fallible, so when their egos get involved, they tend to disagree.

 

[Trailblazer]

Almost all of the Baha'i members I've seen posting here seem very eager to proselytize and push their beliefs on others, despite the fact that they also say that proselytizing is forbidden in their religion. I find myself having to pull back from my knee-jerk reaction of dismissing the religion as hypocritical. Instead, I remind myself that any non-proselytizing Baha'is probably wouldn't be pushing their beliefs online and because of this, they'd escape my notice.

That accusation is totally UNJUST. No Baha’i here is pushing their beliefs upon anyone. Show me one post wherein a Baha’i tried to convince or convert anyone to the Baha’i Faith.

Proselytizing implies intent to convert people from one opinion or belief to another.

Proselytize: convert or attempt to convert (someone) from one religion, belief, or opinion to another. https://www.google.com

I cannot speak for any Baha’is other than myself. I know I have no such intent and it does not “appear” to me that any other Baha’is do either.

Moreover, you have no way of knowing anyone else’s intent but your own.

What Baha’is do is share and teach, but they only teach if people respond to them and want to hear more. Sharing is not proselytizing. Proselytizing implies intent to convert but sharing does not imply any intent.

Share: give a portion of (something) to another or others. https://www.google.com

Teach: show or explain to (someone) how to do something.https://www.google.com

I find it awfully ironic that people, especially Atheists, say that the Baha’i Faith is just so small compared to all the older religions (0.1% of the world population), which must mean it is not the Truth from God, because any God worth His salt could have done a much better job of getting His message out.

Ironically, it is the Baha’is who have not done a very good job of getting the message out. What you see on this forum is a handful of dedicated Baha’is. You should hear what other Baha’is say on Baha’i forums... They either say the God will take care of the teaching in due time or we do not have to share/teach the Faith because everyone can progress infinitely after they die and go to the next world, and as such we don’t need to tell them about Baha’u’llah.

Both of these are wrong. First, God is not going to do jack squat. God gave man free will so we would “do something.” Baha’u’llah exhorted the Baha’is to share/teach. Secondly, there is no guarantee that people who did not recognize Baha’u’llah in this world will be able to make upfor that loss in the afterlife. It is clearly stated that ONLY by the mercy of God and the prayers of others do they have a snowball’s chance in hell of progressing.

So what we have are Baha’is who don’t want to do jack squat so they make excuses. Admittedly, if there was no internet I would not be sharing/teaching the Faith, because I am very shy and reserved in real life and I detest socializing in person.

With all the religions that are out on the internet these days, how the heck do you think people are going to find out about the Baha’i Faith if the Baha’is never share it? Didn’t Jesus exhort His Disciples to teach the Gospel message far and wide? How else do you think Christianity spread?

I am sorry, I do not care what people think, because I am only responsible for my own behavior. I KNOW I am not on forums to convince or convert anyone. If I was I would be an utter fool because I don’t know anyone who has become a Baha’i in my six years of yakking 24/7.

No, I share because that is what Baha’u’llah has exhorted me to do, and for NO other reason. If more Baha’is took Baha’u’llah seriously this Faith would be a lot bigger by now.

An interesting story is that there was a Baha’i who was assigned to a post for 10 years and not one person became a Baha’i all those years. So he questioned why he had to stay there and Abdu’l-Baha said to just stay there and stop complaining... Well, he did not say it exactly that way, I cannot remember the exact verbiage.

I do not hold it against you for how you think about proselytizing. I am just explaining this because it is best to nip it in the bud sooner than alter... In spite of our disagreements, you are my favorite atheist on this forum because you are very courteous, very just, very fair, and you think with your head, not your emotions, and you are logical.

I have never liked people according to whether they agree with me. I look for good character and I can usually spot that pretty fast.

 

[Trailblazer]

If Quran in just one volume, a compact book, gives claims and reasons, and it fits in the pocket of my shirt, then Bahaullah need not have written 100 volumes of Writings.
And Bahaullah named only one of them as Kitab-i-Aqdas, "The Most Holy Book". Then other "over 100 volumes of Writings" cannot be Most Holy as one has stated.
And yet with "over 100 volumes of Writings " Bahaullah could not bring one new practical and lasting teaching/commandment that is not in Quran already.

How do you know that everything Baha’u’llah wrote is in the Qur’an? Are these teachings in the Qur’an?

• The oneness of God.
• The oneness of humanity.
• The oneness of religion.
• Religion as a school.
• Equality of women and men.
• Harmony of religion and science.
• Universal compulsory education.
• Universal auxiliary language.

Bahá'í teachings - Wikipedia
There is a lot more that is new. These are just a few teachings.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

That accusation is totally UNJUST. No Baha’i here is pushing their beliefs upon anyone. Show me one post wherein a Baha’i tried to convince or convert anyone to the Baha’i Faith.

Conversion is usually a matter of more than a single post. I can show you plenty - including many of yours - that deal with people’s objections to the Baha’i faith.

What percentage of your posts are aimed at getting someone to “move the needle” from “less Baha’i” to “more Baha’i?” Do you think it’s more or less than half?

Proselytizing implies intent to convert people from one opinion or belief to another.

Proselytize: convert or attempt to convert (someone) from one religion, belief, or opinion to another. https://www.google.com

I know what “proselytize” means.

I cannot speak for any Baha’is other than myself. I know I have no such intent and it does not “appear” to me that any other Baha’is do either.

Maybe we’re reading different posts, then.

Moreover, you have no way of knowing anyone else’s intent but your own.

So when Baha’Is go through the motions of proselytizing, it’s accidental?

What Baha’is do is share and teach, but they only teach if people respond to them and want to hear more. Sharing is not proselytizing. Proselytizing implies intent to convert but sharing does not imply any intent.

Share: give a portion of (something) to another or others. https://www.google.com

Teach: show or explain to (someone) how to do something.https://www.google.com

If “sharing and teaching” is how you describe the behaviour I’ve seen from yourself and other Baha’is, then I’d have to say that it’s just a euphemism for proselytizing.

I find it awfully ironic that people, especially Atheists, say that the Baha’i Faith is just so small compared to all the older religions (0.1% of the world population), which must mean it is not the Truth from God, because any God worth His salt could have done a much better job of getting His message out.

That’s right. It’s suspicious in the first place that a god who’s capable of talking to whoever he pleases would ask for human beings to spread his message - i.e. proselytize - but if he did, then it stands to reason that he would have given you better material to work with. The vast majority of people who learn about the Baha’i faith don’t become Baha’I.

Ironically, it is the Baha’is who have not done a very good job of getting the message out. What you see on this forum is a handful of dedicated Baha’is.

Dedicated to proselytizing, apparently.

You should hear what other Baha’is say on Baha’i forums... They either say the God will take care of the teaching in due time or we do not have to share/teach the Faith because everyone can progress infinitely after they die and go to the next world, and as such we don’t need to tell them about Baha’u’llah.

Sounds logically consistent.

Both of these are wrong. First, God is not going to do jack squat. God gave man free will so we would “do something.” Baha’u’llah exhorted the Baha’is to share/teach. Secondly, there is no guarantee that people who did not recognize Baha’u’llah in this world will be able to make upfor that loss in the afterlife. It is clearly stated that ONLY by the mercy of God and the prayers of others do they have a snowball’s chance in hell of progressing.

So your aim is to bring more people into the Baha’i faith.

So what we have are Baha’is who don’t want to do jack squat so they make excuses.

Or they just have faith and trust in God.

Admittedly, if there was no internet I would not be sharing/teaching the Faith, because I am very shy and reserved in real life and I detest socializing in person.

With all the religions that are out on the internet these days, how the heck do you think people are going to find out about the Baha’i Faith if the Baha’is never share it?

If the religion is true, God would find a way.

If there is a real urgency behind what you’re doing, then this points to your religion being false.

Didn’t Jesus exhort His Disciples to teach the Gospel message far and wide? How else do you think Christianity spread?

I certainly agree that other religions proselytize. The Christians are just honest and up-front about it. They don’t try to hide the fact that they’re trying to bring people into their religion.

I am sorry, I do not care what people think, because I am only responsible for my own behavior. I KNOW I am not on forums to convince or convert anyone. If I was I would be an utter fool because I don’t know anyone who has become a Baha’i in my six years of yakking 24/7.

Your reaction says that you do care, and earlier in your post, you explained how you were trying to win converts: you said that you had to “spread the message” so that they “would stand a snowball’s chance in Hell of progressing.”

No, I share because that is what Baha’u’llah has exhorted me to do, and for NO other reason. If more Baha’is took Baha’u’llah seriously this Faith would be a lot bigger by now.

I’ve heard a similar sentiment from many Christians: the reason they proselytize is that they believe Jesus commanded them to do it.

And you spoke to your end goal again: growing the Baha’i faith through conversion. This is a giveaway that we’re talking about proselytizing. I get that you don’t think your pitch will be successful most of the time, but this is true about most sales. A low success rate doesn’t mean that selling isn’t selling.

An interesting story is that there was a Baha’i who was assigned to a post for 10 years and not one person became a Baha’i all those years. So he questioned why he had to stay there and Abdu’l-Baha said to just stay there and stop complaining... Well, he did not say it exactly that way, I cannot remember the exact verbiage.

I’ve heard similar motivational statements in sales training: just keep pushing, even if you aren’t seeing results yet.

I do not hold it against you for how you think about proselytizing. I am just explaining this because it is best to nip it in the bud sooner than alter... In spite of our disagreements, you are my favorite atheist on this forum because you are very courteous, very just, very fair, and you think with your head, not your emotions, and you are logical.

I have never liked people according to whether they agree with me. I look for good character and I can usually spot that pretty fast.

Thank you for the sentiment, but you haven’t nipped anything in the bud. Explaining how you’re trying to grow your religion by finding converts did nothing to convince me that you aren’t proselytizing; just the opposite, in fact.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

You cannot assume that it is a sign that the scripture is not clearly written. Although there is some scripture that could be interpreted in slightly different ways, the core meaning cannot be disputed. So what happens is that the individual egos of Baha’is get involved and try to say it does not mean what it clearly says, just so they can argue against it and have what they want. This is no different from what Christians do, but I am ashamed to be a Baha’is when I see Baha’is doing this.

For example, there are Baha’is who will try to say that Baha’u’llah never outlawed homosexual sex... What is this then?

From The Kitáb-i-Aqdas – The Most Holy Book of the Baha’i Faith, the Book of Laws:

“The Bahá’í teachings on sexual morality centre on marriage and the family as the bedrock of the whole structure of human society and are designed to protect and strengthen that divine institution. Bahá’í law thus restricts permissible sexual intercourse to that between a man and the woman to whom he is married.”
The Kitáb-i-Aqdas, p. 223

Agreement among believers has absolutely no bearing on whether Baha’u’llah was a Manifestation of God or not. Humans are fallible, so when their egos get involved, they tend to disagree.

I don’t think this explanation makes sense, because there are other cases where people - with their egos - can agree on what a book says.

Take Robert’s Rules of Order: I’ve seen plenty of occasions where people with big egos and competing interests get locked in disputes that hinge on exactly what Robert’s Rules of Order says, but they can almost universally agree on what the book actually says.

Regardless of ego, background, personal interests, etc., people who have actually read that book can actually agree on how to interpret its contents.

That’s my yardstick: a book written by human beings can be unambiguous to those who read it, as long as enough care and attention went into it. It seems to me that any god worth the title could do at least that well.

 

[Jim]

@9-10ths_Penguin You do realize that it's an exercise in futility, to try to convince any Baha'i that we're proselytizing? Proselytizing is prohibited in our religion, so nothing that any of us do can ever be proselytizing.

ETA:

Here is the online Baha'i definition of proselytizing:

Proselytizing: Something that no Baha'is ever does.

 

[paarsurrey]

Thank you paarsurry.

I was only offering that in my opinion any writing of Baha'u'llah is a core work.

What one must understand is that the Book of Laws by Baha'u'llah is composed from many of Baha'u'llahs writings. In that way it is like the Koran where the laws of the Dispensation are given in different Surah's. Thus one might read a Tablet to the Shah and find a law for this dispensation revealed.

Peace be with you, regards Tony

Does one mean that Aqdas is a collection made by his followers from Bahaullah's other writings, and that its title name has also been suggested or given by his followers, please?
Please state clearly.

Regards

 

[paarsurrey]

Baha'u'llah named the Tablet.

"The Kitáb-i-Aqdas or Aqdas is the central book of the Bahá'í Faith written by Bahá'u'lláh, the founder of the religion, in 1873. The work was written in Arabic under the Arabic title al-Kitābu l-Aqdas (Arabic: الكتاب الأقدس‎), but it is commonly referred to by its Persian title, Kitáb-i-Aqdas (Persian: كتاب اقدس‎), which was given to the work by Bahá'u'lláh himself. It is sometimes also referred to as "the Most Holy Book", "the Book of Laws" or the Book of Aqdas. The word Aqdas has a significance in many languages as the superlative form of a word with its primary letters Q-D-Š.

Kitáb-i-Aqdas - Wikipedia

As noted above in another reply;

"...While it is the core text on laws of the religion, it is not the exclusive source of laws in the religion, nor of Bahá'u'lláh's own writings, and complementarily the reader is told explicitly to not view the text as a "mere code of laws".

Regards Tony

Thanks and regards

 

[paarsurrey]

There is no need for anyone to interpret the Baha’i scriptures because the meanings are easily understandable. Not only do we have what Baha’u’llah wrote, but we also have the interpretations of the Writings of Baha’u’llah made by Abdu’l-Baha and Shoghi Effendi, who were appointed interpreters by virtue of the Covenant. So to argue with any one of them is akin to breaking the Covenant in which case one is really not a Baha’i.

The only reason some Baha’is argue about the Writings is because (a) they are not deepened in the Writings so they do not really understand what they mean, and/or (b) they disagree with the Writings and wish it was not true that for example homosexuality has been outlawed by Baha’u’llah (for Baha’is) and that women are disallowed form serving on the UHJ. But to be rather blunt, that is tough tiddlywinks, because arguing against these is akin to arguing with Baha’u’llah, which is akin to arguing with God, which is illogical, because God is infallible. As my husband always says, if Baha’is argue with any of what Baha’u’llah, Abdu’l-Baha, or Shoghi Effendi wrote, they are not really Baha’is anymore. I do not give a freaking rip if this sounds dogmatic to non-Baha’is, as Baha’is do not have pleasing people as one of their responsibilities, and doing so is dishonest.

There is absolutely NO question about the infallibility of Baha’u’llah. This is clearly stated in the Writings.

“Say: This is the infallible Balance which the Hand of God is holding, in which all who are in the heavens and all who are on the earth are weighed, and their fate determined, if ye be of them that believe and recognize this truth. Say: Through it the poor have been enriched, the learned enlightened, and the seekers enabled to ascend unto the presence of God. Beware, lest ye make it a cause of dissension amongst you. Be ye as firmly settled as the immovable mountain in the Cause of your Lord, the Mighty, the Loving.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 136-137

“Tear asunder, in My Name, the veils that have grievously blinded your vision, and, through the power born of your belief in the unity of God, scatter the idols of vain imitation. Enter, then, the holy paradise of the good-pleasure of the All-Merciful. Sanctify your souls from whatsoever is not of God, and taste ye the sweetness of rest within the pale of His vast and mighty Revelation, and beneath the shadow of His supreme and infallible authority.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 143

“We can well perceive how the whole human race is encompassed with great, with incalculable afflictions. We see it languishing on its bed of sickness, sore-tried and disillusioned. They that are intoxicated by self-conceit have interposed themselves between it and the Divine and infallible Physician. Witness how they have entangled all men, themselves included, in the mesh of their devices. They can neither discover the cause of the disease, nor have they any knowledge of the remedy. They have conceived the straight to be crooked, and have imagined their friend an enemy.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 213​

As for the existence of God, there would be no Baha’i Faith if God did not exist since the entire Baha’i Faith is based upon a Revelation from God. There cannot be a Revelation from a God that does not exist.

“The Revelation which, from time immemorial, hath been acclaimed as the Purpose and Promise of all the Prophets of God, and the most cherished Desire of His Messengers, hath now, by virtue of the pervasive Will of the Almighty and at His irresistible bidding, been revealed unto men.The advent of such a Revelation hath been heralded in all the sacred Scriptures. Behold how, notwithstanding such an announcement, mankind hath strayed from its path and shut out itself from its glory.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 5

“Call out to Zion, O Carmel, and announce the joyful tidings: He that was hidden from mortal eyes is come! His all-conquering sovereignty is manifest; His all-encompassing splendor is revealed. Beware lest thou hesitate or halt. Hasten forth and circumambulate the City of God that hath descended from heaven, the celestial Kaaba round which have circled in adoration the favored of God, the pure in heart, and the company of the most exalted angels. Oh, how I long to announce unto every spot on the surface of the earth, and to carry to each one of its cities, the glad-tidings of this Revelation—a Revelation to which the heart of Sinai hath been attracted, and in whose name the Burning Bush is calling: ‘Unto God, the Lord of Lords, belong the kingdoms of earth and heaven.’ Verily this is the Day in which both land and sea rejoice at this announcement, the Day for which have been laid up those things which God, through a bounty beyond the ken of mortal mind or heart, hath destined for revelation. Ere long will God sail His Ark upon thee, and will manifest the people of Bahá who have been mentioned in the Book of Names.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 16​

“God,” said He, “is My witness, O people! I am come to you with a Revelation from the Lord, your God, the Lord of your fathers of old. Look not, O people, at the things ye possess. Look rather at the things God hath sent down unto you. This, surely, will be better for you than the whole of creation, could ye but perceive it. Repeat the gaze, O people, and consider the testimony of God and His proof which are in your possession, and compare them unto the Revelation sent down unto you in this Day, that the truth, the infallible truth, may be indubitably manifested unto you. Follow not, O people, the steps of the Evil One; follow ye the Faith of the All-Merciful, and be ye of them that truly believe. What would it profit man, if he were to fail to recognize the Revelation of God? Nothing whatever. To this Mine own Self, the Omnipotent, the Omniscient, the All-Wise, will testify.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 146​

"There is no need for anyone to interpret the Baha’i scriptures because the meanings are easily understandable." Unquote.

If the meanings are already clear in the text of the Aqdas, it is lack of confidence of Bahaullah to depend on Abdu’l-Baha and or Shoghi Effendi for its meaning and or interpretation.

Either he himself was:
~ not sure of what he wrote
~or he considered himself to be inferior to Abdu’l-Baha and Shoghi Effendi.

Both are signs against "infallibility" of Bahaullah that Bahais claim of him.
Right, please?

Regards

 

[paarsurrey]

Baha'u'llah named the Tablet.

"The Kitáb-i-Aqdas or Aqdas is the central book of the Bahá'í Faith written by Bahá'u'lláh, the founder of the religion, in 1873. The work was written in Arabic under the Arabic title al-Kitābu l-Aqdas (Arabic: الكتاب الأقدس‎), but it is commonly referred to by its Persian title, Kitáb-i-Aqdas (Persian: كتاب اقدس‎), which was given to the work by Bahá'u'lláh himself. It is sometimes also referred to as "the Most Holy Book", "the Book of Laws" or the Book of Aqdas. The word Aqdas has a significance in many languages as the superlative form of a word with its primary letters Q-D-Š.

Kitáb-i-Aqdas - Wikipedia

As noted above in another reply;

"...While it is the core text on laws of the religion, it is not the exclusive source of laws in the religion, nor of Bahá'u'lláh's own writings, and complementarily the reader is told explicitly to not view the text as a "mere code of laws".

Regards Tony

One may like to read post #42 from our another Bahai friend Trailblazer. It is against what you told us . He says that "it was considered The Most Holy Book by those who compiled the Book" which means that the title was not given by Bahaullah to the Aqdas and the book Aqdas was not authored by Bahaullah but it was compiled from his writings by some or many of his followers. It also entail that its arrangement has not been made by Bahaullah, so for the compilers there is every possibility that they had quoted the passages out of context where-from they have been taken etc.
Please investigate more about the Truth of it. It is just a friendly investigation, for comparison, with Quran please .

Regards

 

[Trailblazer]

"There is no need for anyone to interpret the Baha’i scriptures because the meanings are easily understandable." Unquote.

If the meanings are already clear in the text of the Aqdas, it is lack of confidence of Bahaullah to depend on Abdu’l-Baha and or Shoghi Effendi for its meaning and or interpretation.

Either he himself was:
~ not sure of what he wrote
~or he considered himself to be inferior to Abdu’l-Baha and Shoghi Effendi.

Both are signs against "infallibility" of Bahaullah that Bahais claim of him.
Right, please?

With all due respect, this is your fallible human interpretation of why Baha'u'llah did what He did, when He appointed Abdu’l-Baha and Shoghi Effendi as interpreters.

This has nothing to do with the infallibility of Baha'u'llah; it speaks to His knowing what fallible humans would be able to understand. Being infallible, He knew that they would need interpreters which is why they were appointed by Him.

 

[Trailblazer]

"There is no need for anyone to interpret the Baha’i scriptures because the meanings are easily understandable." Unquote.

If the meanings are already clear in the text of the Aqdas, it is lack of confidence of Bahaullah to depend on Abdu’l-Baha and or Shoghi Effendi for its meaning and or interpretation.

Either he himself was:
~ not sure of what he wrote
~or he considered himself to be inferior to Abdu’l-Baha and Shoghi Effendi.

Both are signs against "infallibility" of Bahaullah that Bahais claim of him.
Right, please?

With all due respect, this is your fallible human interpretation of why Baha'u'llah did what He did, when He appointed Abdu’l-Baha and Shoghi Effendi as interpreters.

This has nothing to do with the infallibility of Baha'u'llah; it speaks to His knowing what fallible humans would be able to understand. Being infallible, He knew that they would need interpreters which is why they were appointed by Him.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Does one mean that Aqdas is a collection made by his followers from Bahaullah's other writings, and that its title name has also been suggested or given by his followers, please?
Please state clearly.

Regards

The Work available online explains all this - The Kitáb-i-Aqdas | Bahá’í Reference Library

• Preface
• Introduction
• A Description of the Kitáb-i-Aqdas by Shoghi Effendi

The above explains all about how it was written and how it was compiled.

• The Kitáb-i-Aqdas

The Above is the Main Text Revealed by Baha'u'llah about 20 years after His Declaration. It is not the only source to all the Laws of this Dispensation.

• Some Supplementary Texts
• Questions and Answers
• A Synopsis and Codification of the Laws and Ordinances of the Kitáb-i-Aqdas
• Notes

The above is supplementary text that is attached to the Main Book. Baha'u'llah answered questions about the laws in many other tablets.

Regards Tony

 

[paarsurrey]

Baha'u'llah has written a pocket size book that contains the Inner Essence of the Quran.
It is called the Hidden Words.
The Hidden Words | Bahá’í Reference Library
"HE IS THE GLORY OF GLORIES
THIS is that which hath descended from the realm of glory, uttered by the tongue of power and might, and revealed unto the Prophets of old. We have taken the inner essence thereof and clothed it in the garment of brevity, as a token of grace unto the righteous, that they may stand faithful unto the Covenant of God, may fulfill in their lives His trust, and in the realm of spirit obtain the gem of divine virtue."
That may be a better work to pursue.
Regards Tony

"the garment of brevity" Unquote.
Sorry.

• Bahaullah need not have done that. Quran has already provided its essence of brevity in the its first chapter comprising of only seven verses which is also its its introduction. It is called Al-Fatihah
• If Bahaullah himself would have written something in brevity for his own followers then he need not have "wrote over 100 volumes of Writings" difficult to read all of them by his followers. That would have been very useful to them. Right, please?

Regards

 

[TransmutingSoul]

One may like to read post #42 from our another Bahai friend Trailblazer. It is against what you told us . He says that "it was considered The Most Holy Book by those who compiled the Book" which means that the title was not given by Bahaullah to the Aqdas and the book Aqdas was not authored by Bahaullah but it was compiled from his writings by some or many of his followers. It also entail that its arrangement has not been made by Bahaullah, so for the compilers there is every possibility that they had quoted the passages out of context where-from they have been taken etc.
Please investigate more about the Truth of it. It is just a friendly investigation, for comparison, with Quran please .

Regards

I will link to the reply that covers this;

The Work available online explains all this - The Kitáb-i-Aqdas | Bahá’í Reference Library

• Preface
• Introduction
• A Description of the Kitáb-i-Aqdas by Shoghi Effendi

The above explains all about how it was written and how it was compiled.

• The Kitáb-i-Aqdas

The Above is the Main Text Revealed by Baha'u'llah about 20 years after His Declaration. It is not the only source to all the Laws of this Dispensation.

• Some Supplementary Texts
• Questions and Answers
• A Synopsis and Codification of the Laws and Ordinances of the Kitáb-i-Aqdas
• Notes

The above is supplementary text that is attached to the Main Book. Baha'u'llah answered questions about the laws in many other tablets.

Regards Tony

So -

1. The Kitab-i-Aqdas is the Main Work named by Baha'u'llah.
2. How all the Additional and Supplementary material became part of the book is mentioned in the Preface, Introduction and the Description given by Shoghi Effendi, and
3. The Additional & Supplementary works are the Supplementary Text, Questions and Answers, the Synopsis & Codification and the Notes.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

"the garment of brevity" Unquote.
Sorry.

• Bahaullah need not have done that. Quran has already provided its essence of brevity in the its first chapter comprising of only seven verses which is also its its introduction. It is called Al-Fatihah
• If Bahaullah himself would have written something in brevity for his own followers then he need not have "wrote over 100 volumes of Writings" difficult to read all of them by his followers. That would have been very useful to them. Right, please?

Regards

This fulfilled Prophecy both Biblical and from Islamic Tradition.

John 16:12 "I still have much to tell you, but you cannot yet bear to hear it. 13However, when the Spirit of truth comes, He will guide you into all truth. For He will not speak on His own, but He will speak what He hears, and He will declare to you what is to come. 14He will glorify Me by taking from what is Mine and disclosing it to you.…"

The Muslim tradition is - "Every knowledge hath seventy meanings, of which one only is known amongst the people. And when the Qá'im shall arise, He shall reveal unto men all that which remaineth."

I do not have the source for that at the moment.

Baha'u'llah has said;

"By God! however great Our desire to be brief, yet We feel We cannot restrain Our pen. Notwithstanding all that We have mentioned, how innumerable are the pearls which have remained unpierced in the shell of Our heart! How many the huris of inner meaning that are as yet concealed within the chambers of divine wisdom! None hath yet approached them; -- huris, 'whom no man nor spirit hath touched before.'" (Baha'u'llah, The Kitab-i-Iqan, p. 70)

And it is Allah that has unrestrained the pen;

"O Maid of inner meanings! Step out of the chamber of utterance by the leave of God, the Lord of the heavens and the earth." (The Summons of the Lord of Hosts, p. 13, paragraph 22)

Regards Tony

 

[paarsurrey]

Thank you paarsurry.
I was only offering that in my opinion any writing of Baha'u'llah is a core work.
What one must understand is that the Book of Laws by Baha'u'llah is composed from many of Baha'u'llahs writings. In that way it is like the Koran where the laws of the Dispensation are given in different Surah's. Thus one might read a Tablet to the Shah and find a law for this dispensation revealed.
Peace be with you, regards Tony

How many pages and also the words is the total volume of all those 100 writings bound together, please?

Regards

 

[paarsurrey]

With all due respect, this is your fallible human interpretation of why Baha'u'llah did what He did, when He appointed Abdu’l-Baha and Shoghi Effendi as interpreters.

This has nothing to do with the infallibility of Baha'u'llah; it speaks to His knowing what fallible humans would be able to understand. Being infallible, He knew that they would need interpreters which is why they were appointed by Him.

"this is your fallible human interpretation" Unquote.
Sorry, I don't agree with one.
The same is yours or for that matter of Bahaullah, all being humans.
Wasn't Bahaullah a human being like millions or billions who were born of their mothers and fathers and they died?

Regards
____________
[[46:10]
Say, ‘I am no new Messenger, nor do I know what will be done with me or with you in this life. I do but follow what is revealed to me; and I am but a plain Warner.’
The Holy Quran - Chapter: 46: Al-Ahqaf