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Do Drugs Bring you Closer to God?

BruceDLimber

Well-Known Member
Here it is saying that there is nothing on Marijuana, so it looks like that is fine.

Clearly false!

Not only is ALL recreational drug use forbidden, but another law requires obedience to government and the laws it establishes! So since marijuana use, posession, and growth are illegal, so its use or horticulture is prohibited to Baha'is.

I am not understanding where this document came from, is this directly quoted from the scripture or is this someones take on it?

The Baha'i Faith had a leader and official interpreter of its scripture first appointed directly by Baha'u'llah in His Will and Testament ('Abdu'l-Baha); and in his Will he in turn appointed Shoghi Effendi to head the Faith and issue any further interpretations he deemed necessary.

Lights of Guidance is 100% the work of Shoghi Effendi and as such has the status of official Baha'i doctrine not subject to alteration, debate, or revision.

(This can only change when another Divine Messenger appears, which our scriptures state explicitly (and literally) won't be for at least a millenium <now down to about 850 years>.)

Peace,

Bruce
 
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ellenjanuary

Well-Known Member
Clearly false!

Not only is ALL recreational drug use forbidden, but another law required obedience to government and the laws it establishes! So since marijuana use, posession, and growth are illegal, so its use or horticulture is prohibited to Baha'is.



The Baha'i Faith had a leader and official interpreter of its scripture first appointed directly by Baha'u'llah in His Will and Testament ('Abdu'l-Baha); and in his Will he in turn appointed Shoghi Effendi to head the Faith and issue any further interpretations he deemed necessary.

Lights of Guidance is 100% the work of Shoghi Effendi and as such has the status of official Baha'i doctrine not subject to alteration, debate, or revision.

(This can only change when another Divine Messenger appears, which our scriptures state explicitly (and literally) won't be for at least a millenium <now down to about 850 years>.)

Peace,

Bruce
Wow. There's a religion, just shot itself in the foot. Either it will take this religion 850 years to accept the Gwynnite Hypothesis, or... man, there ain't no or. :D

Sorry, Bruce. I know you are a happy guy and all, but you speak of impossible things.
 

BruceDLimber

Well-Known Member
You are most welcome to your opinions, none of which have the least effect on our teachings and standards.

And we're most honored to endorse them.

Bruce
 
The Mayans? They also thought that sacrificing humans brought them closer to god/gods . . . ..The greeks? they claimed that they had a piece of wood that fell from the planet Jupiter . . ..they had multi-gods and idol statues made for each-theY even went so far as to make an statue titled: "TO THE UNKNOWN GOD" . . . you know . . in case they"left one out"...The God I know and love wants us to be of a "sober mind" -so I think it is is safe to say that God wants us to be of sober mind. probably so that the evil spirits can't just "walk-on-in" while we're laying there on the floor passed out and inebriated, unable to defend ourselves . . .you know,like the Mayans,greeks,egyptians,Romans . . . ..
 

outhouse

Atheistically
I had a EPIPHANY!!!!!

YES YES YES YES drugs do bring you closer to god much closer.

you drive you wreck you die!
you walk and fall off cliffs, walk in front of buses
you say stupid thinsg to your wife and she whacks you!
spend your welfare check on drugs and the kids kill you

Ah heck theres many ways drugs bring you closer to god LOL
 

EverChanging

Well-Known Member
Drug use has been traditionally employed for spiritual purposes and introspection for hundreds, thousands, of years, but the practice of drug use was carefully monitored and guided under an experienced and trained person, and these methods persist in some cultures, even today. Many anthropologists are guided in these experiences.

Using street drugs or other drugs without any spiritual discipline or guidance can be disastrous and impede growth or insight, but sometimes they will open a person's perception a bit and perhaps encourage them to keep searching and growing. Sometimes drug-induced mystical experiences can have the same effects as naturally occurring mystical experiences.

I have experienced many altered states of consciousness, in part because I am schizoaffective with a bi polar affective, in part from prayer and meditation, and also some drugs. I do not recommend drugs, especially if you are bi polar or have any other mood, mental, or thought disorder.

That being said, drugs, including alcohol, marijuana, and to a much lesser extent, ecstasy and others were a part of my experience, especially entering college, good or bad. By the time I started college, I had already been experiencing altered states and hallucinations naturally from childhood, so it is not surprising that explored some drugs as well.

I have written great papers and made high As while stoned, manic, sleep deprived, delirious, and any combination of the above. I have found marijuana useful in provoking thought and helping to get ideas onto paper. In fact, I've used marijuana to motivate myself to write papers for school.

However, drugs do not affect each person in the same way. The first time I smoked a large amount of marijuana, I had extremely rapid mood swings -- laughter, panic, laughter panic. My vision broke into a million tiny windows, and I fell through them, screaming.

Although marijuana initially seemed to provoke insight, and it did in some ways, I eventually found that the insights were not superior to those I have in a sober state, if I even have a sober state to begin with.

All of the major altered experiences I have had that led to insight, growth, transcendence, love, and healing occurred naturally without the use of drugs, most of them spontaneously. (I also, of course, cultivate spirituality through disciplined prayer and meditation.) In my own experience, while drugs have at times stimulated very insightful thoughts -- and helped me write great papers with top scores in my classes -- they are a short cut for the hard work of spiritual discipline. Even if you have a genuine mystical experience induced by drugs -- and this is definitely possible -- it will take meditation and discipline to actually integrate and live out this experience. In other words, however you have a mystical experience, spontaneously, drug-induced, from prayer or meditation, you must live it out or it will not be transformative, and without transformation, there is no spirituality.

My spontaneous experiences have been far, far more vivid, far more transformative and mystical than any drug-induced state I have ever experienced. I find that drugs bombard the ego. The disintegration or disorientation can be so quick and vivid that one cannot cope -- that was me screaming and screaming as I fell through the windows of my life, my ego fragmented and afraid.

On the other hand, meditation takes much longer to practice and enter into. Transformation occurs, but it is often subtle and gradual. During meditation, an epiphany may occur, but this is often after at least some practice. With time to adjust and practice, losing the ego is not so terrifying like it is on drugs. It occurs naturally.

In truth, all I have really learned from drugs is the same thing I learned from life while not on drugs -- that the ego is constantly changing. There is nothing permanent in here to grasp onto, to hold onto. It is all slipping away. This is true when sober or drugged. There is no greater truth in drugged states. The same truths are here, now, either way.

Coming to this truth is actually how I have learned to cope with my "disorder," which involves mood swings, disorientation, hallucinations, delusions, and delirium. I often go about my life, school, work, and social activities delirious and manic as hell and often somewhat psychotic. But in truth, the reality I perceive in those states is the same thing. There isn't anything greater there. No greater truth to be found.

By detaching from perception and living mindfully, a person can converse and go about life quite intelligently and competently while psychotic. My psychiatrist and therapist often seem to think I'm doing very well when I know I am hallucinating.

The trick is to see that the psychotic state and the "sober" or "sane" state are both illusions. Then they become one and the same, and when both states are one, I can navigate in one about as well as the other.

If a drug-induced state has opened your mind, that is wonderful. It really is, and there is nothing wrong with it, but abusing a drug to achieve this state will never work because these experiences are fleeting, whether drug-induced or naturally occurring. The true work of spirituality is applying the insights in daily life and being transformed in the process, letting go of the ego in detachment.

If you must use a drug to talk to God, you are attached to the drug and may be mistaking the drug for the mystery itself.

IF you are going to use drugs to explore the mind, you MUST do this as responsibly as you can, and you cannot neglect the discipline of meditation. You will get no where if you are not able to apply the insights in your daily life without drugs.
 
Drugs do not bring you closer to God, however they can get you stoned and make you do funny stuff.

If you, as a person by yourself are not connection God, then an external force cannot either.
 

Jacksnyte

Reverend
So Bob Marley was quoted to say:

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]When You smoke herb it reveals you to yourself. All the wickedness you do is revealed by the herb --- it's you conscience and gives you an honest picture of yourself ;[/FONT]

Many spiritual leaders have been known to use LSD to bring themselves closer to god.

Many Priests drink wine to further there communion with God.

Have a read at this article:

From the ancient Greeks and Romans, to the tribe of North America, the Egyptians, and the Maya, religious sacraments have included euphorics and hallucinogens. These are called "entheogens" ("God inside us," en &#949;&#957;- "in, within," theo &#952;&#949;&#959;&#962;- "god, divine," -gen &#947;&#949;&#957;&#959;&#962; "creates, generates").

Entheogens have been used in a ritualized context for thousands of years; their religious significance is well established in anthropological and modern evidences. Examples of traditional entheogens include: kykeon, ambrosia, iboga, soma, peyote, bufotenine, and ayahuasca. Other traditional entheogens include cannabis, ethanol, ergine, psilocybe mushrooms, and opium, to name only a few.



So what do you think? Is this a spiritual cognition or purely a physical chemical reaction?

I'd say that the two are not necessarily mutually exclusive. Bear in mind that the type of substances used for this have quite a long history of use by shamans and priests of all cultures going back thousands of years. It depends on ones approach and purpose. They can be used as an upaya, or as just another way to get wasted. The demonization of their use by the powers that be has resulted in across-the-board knee-jerk rejection mostly due to propaganda like "Reefer Madness".
 
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EverChanging

Well-Known Member
enough of them will take you right to him


I'd rather people make informed choices about how they are going to use drugs if they are going to do so. This technique of fear-mongering is not effective. It does not stop drug use. In fact, this "Just Say No!" attitude often leaves a person very ignorant and thus more likely to damage themselves with drugs.

Drug use is older than humankind. It's like sex. People are going to do it, and if they're going to do it, it needs to be as safe as possible. Prohibition of drugs criminalizes non-violent offenders, wastes government money on a futile project, and keeps money in the pocket of the drug lords.

I really wish people would stop with the fear. Drugs have their risks and dangers, but fear will not keep people safe. Fear will not keep people off of drugs. Prohibition is a failure.
 
enough of them will take you right to him

If you're talking about drugs such as cocaine, heroine, crack etc. then I totally agree.

However, if you are talking about marijuana, I strongly suggest you re-educate yourself on the drug. It's a very safe drug and causes very little harm to the body, long term and short term.

I read something like, that it takes about 10kg of Marijuana for the THC to be lethal.
 

Jacksnyte

Reverend
I do not know exactly what a years supply of acid is.
The acid guru I speak of was Timothy Leary. If you are old enough you probably remember him. I would assume he used acid daily so a years' supply would be 365 hits perhaps?
The story was in a book Timothy Leary wrote, an it was through this experience that he eventually stopped using acid.
Yes it is hard to believe a story that a large amount of acid would have no effect on a person. But Timothy Leary's guru (who's name I don't recall) was a man who devoted his life to meditation and the teaching of it. It is well know that those who meditate a great deal can gain enormous control over bodily functions and reactions. I cannot validate this story of course, but it is believable.
actually, I believe this story was about Richard Alpert who eventually became Ram Das. Timothy Leary never had a guru.
 

Starsoul

Truth
If they bring you closer to a delusion I am sure they would bring you closer to what "you believe" to be God like any hallucinogen.
Delusion, exactly.

They're called hallucinogens for a reason.

If man is indeed a mix of evil and good spirits, then definitely the 'high' experienced after taking drugs is giving you a flavour of the evil spirit ( i.e the one that brings you closer to Satan,the devil).

So however destructive in reality that 'spiritual interaction' is, Man , is deluded into savoring it, to be in touch with that spirit again, and ofcorse craves for the experience over and over while blindly embracing its destructive influence.

But spiritual connection with God, can never be delusional, its quite enlightening in irradiating good spirit and sound actions. How do we differentiate one spiritual high from the other? Simple. look at those who take drugs and what they do, and look at those who don't do drugs.

Alcohol, Music, Drugs ; tools to reach your dark side. Its only fun till it lasts, and robs you of the real route to the Good spirit. Who commits the most suicides? Drug abusers. Is suicide a good influence for humanity? No. Kurt Cobain shot himself, Elvis died of a drug overdose, the list is never ending.

And the effect of the good spirit; You are so independant and so in control of your life, that you'd never ever even want to get close to all those things again, no teaching required, it happens itself.
 

Nerthus

Wanderlust
I still see no reason why drugs cannot help you reach a higher spiritual plane and become closer to God - who is to say it doesn't. I wonder if the people who adamantly say they don't, have ever even tried it. No one can say with certainty unless they have tried both paths. It seems that most people who disagree are pretty religious themselves and because they have been told that God doesn't like drugs- it must be that they won't bring you closer to him.
 

Starsoul

Truth
I still see no reason why drugs cannot help you reach a higher spiritual plane and become closer to God - who is to say it doesn't. I wonder if the people who adamantly say they don't, have ever even tried it. No one can say with certainty unless they have tried both paths. It seems that most people who disagree are pretty religious themselves and because they have been told that God doesn't like drugs- it must be that they won't bring you closer to him.
How would you explain God to be using a known destructive, unedible, secretly available material to reach his people? How do you support the destruction caused by heroin for instance to justify a spiritual connection with God when all that 'fleeting feeling' is a delusion/hallucination? Do you think He would stoop to that?

While He may reach you anywhere, anyhow, but for someone who relates to the feeling of elusive elation experienced after a high as something being close to God is far from experiencing the real spiritual closeness to God. How do i know ? i know many people who have given up drugs in search of the higher spiritual feeling. You wont find many mature people who leave God for drugs, maybe you would somewhere but they usually regret that decision in time. After all who doesn't know what drugs do to you.
 

Nerthus

Wanderlust
How would you explain God to be using a known destructive, unedible, secretly available material to reach his people? How do you support the destruction caused by heroin for instance to justify a spiritual connection with God when all that 'fleeting feeling' is a delusion/hallucination? Do you think He would stoop to that?

I don't support heroin use in any way. It's destroyed enough of my life.

While He may reach you anywhere, anyhow, but for someone who relates to the feeling of elusive elation experienced after a high as something being close to God is far from experiencing the real spiritual closeness to God. How do i know ? i know many people who have given up drugs in search of the higher spiritual feeling. You wont find many mature people who leave God for drugs, maybe you would somewhere but they usually regret that decision in time. After all who doesn't know what drugs do to you.

I lived in an very Afro-Caribbean area for a while, and knew many Rastas, which as you probably know is one religion where they believe smoking cannabis is a spiritual act, and which is often smoked during Bible study. It is considered a sacrament - which brings them closer to God, and they also light it when in need of guidance. They take it from a verse in the Bible - "the leaves of the tree will heal the nations" - Revelation 22:2.

It isn't about leaving God to find some new way of being spiritual and reaching Him, but it's about both. To them it is another way of clearing your mind and bringing themselves closer to the love and spirit of God. I don't see what is so bad about that.

Also, I feel knowing what drugs do physically to ones body is different to taking them and knowing the spiritual/ psychological effect - in my opinion. I am not saying that heroin should/ or is used to reach God (after all that's a downer, so it wouldn't make sense) but cannabis is used and to many people - Rasta or otherwise have claimed it reveals something to them.
 

EverChanging

Well-Known Member
Susan Blackmore has combined drug use with her scientific studies, just as some anthropologists undergo drug experiences for academic purposes (although they are guided.) In some ways, it can be helpful to some disciplines, but I don't recommend it. There aren't many Susan Blackmores.
 
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