Muffled
Jesus in me
I believe again that the meaning would be negate not annihilate. Where is the support for your meaning? Psalms was written a longtime ago and guess what the wicked are still here.
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Do innocent sinful people go to hell?
- Thread starter The Transcended Omniverse
- Start date
Muffled
Jesus in me
I believe God does not view His creation as worthless but simply as damaged from which it needs to be restored.
Sure the wicked are still here. Have we reached the soon coming ' time of separation ' - Matthew 25:31-33 ?_____
It is Not until Jesus' glory time that there will be divine involvement into mankind's affairs.
Then, at that time, the words from Jesus' mouth will execute the wicked - Isaiah 11:3-4; Revelation 19:14-16
In the Tanach at Psalms 92:8 (KJV it's verse 7 ) When the wicked bloom like grass and all the doers of iniquity blossom, it is to destroy them til eternity.
The Tanach footnote mentions the wicked will sink in destruction, while the righteous gain eternal reward ( Rashi)
So, to me, to be destroyed forever, or sink in destruction, would equal = annihilation.
...and where does the restoring start, but by choosing to 'repent' if one does Not want to 'perish ' (be destroyed )
- 2 Peter 3:9
The wicked choose Not to repent and thus are classed as figurative haughty ' goats ' - Matthew 25:31-33,37
lostwanderingsoul
Well-Known Member
Whether God views them as "damaged" or "garbage" does not matter. Those who choose not to obey will be destroyed not punished forever.
Ben Avraham
Well-Known Member
Yes, innocent or sinful, they will all go to hell. One does not go to hell because he or she transgressed the Law but because he or she was born. Hell in the life of man is only the 3rd phase of his existence. The phases are birth, life and death. Oh! BTW, I am talking about Sheol the Hebrew word for the grave. That's where we all are heading to, whether we are innocent or sinful and the only reason is because we have been born.
Ben Avraham
Well-Known Member
Well, in that case, we must be talking about two different Jesuses. The one I am familiar with, said in his parable of the Richman and Lazarus that the only way to escape hell-fire, one must listen to "Moses" aka the Law. (Luke 16:29-31) If you don't believe it, there must be a problem with your NT.
Please keep in mind the story about the rich man and Lazarus (common people) is a parable or illustration.
In other words, it was Not a real happening but an illustrative story.
The corrupted Pharisees were listening to Jesus - Luke 16:14; Luke 16:19 - so they represented the ' rich man'.
Biblical hell is the grave (sheol) for the unconscious dead - Ecclesiastes 9:5; Psalms 115:17; Psalms 146:4
Even the prophet Daniel equated death to sleep - Daniel 12:2; Daniel 12:13. So did Jesus - John 11:12-14
Those corrupted religious leaders were Not keeping the Constitution of the Mosaic Law but teaching and following their own made-up customs or traditions - Matthew 15:9
Good point ^ above ^ because the day ' innocent Jesus' died he went to hell ( biblical hell the grave )
- Acts of the Apostles 2:27; Psalms 16:10
Because of father Adam's downfall even before our birth our leanings are toward unrighteousness.
That is why birth alone does Not guarantee righteousness in us.
In Christian Scripture, biblical hell (grave) comes to a final end. Hell goes out of existence forever.
After everyone in biblical hell is resurrected out of hell (grave), then empted-out hell is cast vacant into a symbolic ' second death ' for vacated biblical hell (grave) -> Revelation 20:13-14
Enemy death will be No more on Earth - 1 Corinthians 15:26; Isaiah 25:8
Yes, the wicked will be 'destroyed forever' (annihilated) according to Psalms 92:7
lostwanderingsoul
Well-Known Member
So why do most people believe they will be in agony for eternity? This is not taught in the Bible. The Bible says the wages of sin is death but people think that means living forever in pain in hell.
Ben Avraham
Well-Known Member
Perhaps your Bible aka the NT says that the wages of sin is death. It is not. Death is only the 3rd natural step in the existence of man. The steps are: Birth, life and death. No one dies for having committed a sin but for having be born. Babies die every day and have never committed a single sin.
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lostwanderingsoul
Well-Known Member
Perhaps you do not understand that there are two births and two deaths. Man is born physically and dies physically. Then God will resurrect them - second birth. Then if they are not willing to follow God's way of life they will die the second death. Those who will follow God's way will not face this second death and will live forever with Him. So there are five steps, not three. Babies who die will be resurrected like everyone else and given a chance to follow God and not face the second death.
Ben Avraham
Well-Known Member
God is not a God for the dead but for the living only. How could I understand what if not recorded in the Scriptures? The opposite is rather true that what is recorded is that, "Once dead, no one will ever return from the grave." (II Samuel 12:23; Psalm 49:12,20; Isaiah 26:14; Job 7:9; etc)
Ben Avraham
Well-Known Member
Neither does the Bible say that the wages of sin is death. Perhaps the gospel of Paul aka the NT. The gospel of Jesus aka the Tanach says that no one will ever return from the grave. (II Samuel 12:23; Psalm 12:20; Isaiah 26:14; Job 7:9)
Desert Snake
Veteran Member
There are 'other Hells'. /They're all called Hell, so you have to know which 'Hell' is being referred to.
Hence, you can still go to a 'Hell'', even though, at some point, even that Hell will be annihilated. There is no guarantee of 'no punishment'
Ben Avraham
Well-Known Member
And don't forget that Jesus has never returned from the grave. Evidence! 2000 years by now. Now, Adam did not fall. He rather found out that God's command was a Catch-22 and obeyed the Lord by doing the opposite of what he had commanded. Biblical hell to come to a final end, the last man must have first been erased from the face of the earth.
Ben Avraham
Well-Known Member
There is a way to prevent punishments. All we need to do is to listen to "Moses" aka the Law. That's what Jesus said in his parable of the Richman and Lazarus. (Luke 16:29-31)
Ben Avraham
Well-Known Member
God won't resurrect any one who is dead. He is not interested in the dead but in the living only. That's why King David stopped praying for his about-to-die-sick-son. He knew that if he was already dead, he would never return no matter how strongly David prayed for him. (II Samuel 12:23)
Ben Avraham
Well-Known Member
Well, Jesus was a Jewish man and, you are implying that his words were interpretational and didn't agree with various interpretations in Judaism. He was the one who said that to prevent punishments or escape from hell-fire, we must listen to "Moses" aka the Law. (Luke 16:29-31) Do you disagree with him?