Do Jews say grace?

[rosends]

I got the impression that they meant blessed are you who brings bread from the earth as they were talking about farmers. But it does sound much better that they are talking about God. So when Jesus gave thanks to God at the Last Supper that was pretty much the Jewish custom and scriptural command?

I don't know the exact language used at the last supper (though according to those who say it was a passover meal, there would be Jewish practice to praise God for a lot more than just the bread) but in Jewish prayers, we generally recognize that God is the source of things.

 

[Kemosloby]

I don't know the exact language used at the last supper (though according to those who say it was a passover meal, there would be Jewish practice to praise God for a lot more than just the bread) but in Jewish prayers, we generally recognize that God is the source of things.

And that is where the problem is. People get the wrong idea of what it means and start giving thanks for everything under the sun. so where do you stop giving praise and thanks? Certainly if you can give praise for a slice of bread you should give thanks for all kinds of things. But, The scriptural command says to give praise for bread. Jesus said "I am the bread". Put the whole thing together and it seems obvious that the command is because you should give praise for Jesus the savior. But since they are kept apart, the Jewish and Christian they both end up doing it wrong, because they don't put 2 and 2 together.

It would seem funny to give praise for Jesus dying on the cross. Thanks for the crucifixion... But since there is the bread metaphor, you can just give praise for the bread and it doesn't sound so bad. People will think, this person really likes bread. But you know what it really means.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

I'm curious about the tradition of saying grace, and whether this started with Jesus or before Jesus. And what does saying grace mean to Jews.

You're trolling for a Jesus validation. It's rather pathetic.

 

[Kemosloby]

You're trolling for a Jesus validation. It's rather pathetic.

No, Im not. I'm trying to prove my intuition about saying Grace. When people sit down and start giving thanks for everything under the sun I believe that is wrong. The scriptural way, to give thanks for bread is the correct way.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

When people sit down and start giving thanks for everything under the sun I believe that is wrong.

Then start a thread arguing that "giving thanks for everything under the sun ... is wrong". It will be just as silly but a good deal less manipulative and more honest.

The scriptural way, to give thanks for bread is the correct way.

Whose scripture?

(God help us when he discovers the nisim b'chol yom.)

 

[rosends]

And that is where the problem is. People get the wrong idea of what it means and start giving thanks for everything under the sun. so where do you stop giving praise and thanks? Certainly if you can give praise for a slice of bread you should give thanks for all kinds of things. But, The scriptural command says to give praise for bread. Jesus said "I am the bread". Put the whole thing together and it seems obvious that the command is because you should give praise for Jesus the savior. But since they are kept apart, the Jewish and Christian they both end up doing it wrong, because they don't put 2 and 2 together.

It would seem funny to give praise for Jesus dying on the cross. Thanks for the crucifixion... But since there is the bread metaphor, you can just give praise for the bread and it doesn't sound so bad. People will think, this person really likes bread. But you know what it really means.

Actually, in Judaism, we do give thanks for everything under the sun. We are commanded to bless the good and the bad, life and death. It has nothing to do with Jesus. It has to do with Jewish law.

 

[Kemosloby]

Then start a thread arguing that "giving thanks for everything under the sun ... is wrong". It will be just as silly but a good deal less manipulative and more honest.

Whose scripture?

(God help us when he discovers the nisim b'chol yom.)

Both the Old testament Jewish scripture and the New testament Christian scripture. Since the Old testament says to give thanks for bread and the New Testament does the same, helps to shed light on the new testament command to give thanks for bread.

 

[Kemosloby]

Actually, in Judaism, we do give thanks for everything under the sun. We are commanded to bless the good and the bad, life and death. It has nothing to do with Jesus. It has to do with Jewish law.

But saying grace with a meal, is "when there is bread present" So it's all about the bread.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

But saying grace with a meal, is "when there is bread present"

Somewhere (I think in Leviticus) there is a clear proscription against saying grace over waffles.

 

[Kemosloby]

Somewhere (I think in Leviticus) there is a clear proscription against saying grace over waffles.

That was my next question.

 

[rosends]

But saying grace with a meal, is "when there is bread present" So it's all about the bread.

Deut 8, in which we find the statement that we should bless (AFTER we eat, not before) only mentions bread in verse 3, where it says that man should understand that he does not live by bread alone, but by other things God provides, though even there it doesn't refer only to what we think of as bread. The word in question, lechem, sometimes refers to the baked item we call bread, but often, textually, refers to all foods (see repeatedly in Lev 21 and 22, speaking of fire offerings and sacrifices as "lechem") or is used idiomatically (as in Proverbs 31).

So, no, it is not all about the bread. It is about food. Rabbinically, there is discussion about what foods obligate one to say what blessings after them, and also, what constitutes "satiated", a minimum amount consumed in order to qualify for having to say a grace after eating.

 

[Flankerl]

Or its the staple food...

*hint* Its about Jesus, see the light already!

 

[Akivah]

And that is where the problem is. People get the wrong idea of what it means and start giving thanks for everything under the sun. so where do you stop giving praise and thanks? Certainly if you can give praise for a slice of bread you should give thanks for all kinds of things.

What's the problem with giving thanks for everything under the Sun?

 

[metis]

If I make the meal, I say grace after it so that I know I survived.

 

[Tumah]

*hint* Its about Jesus, see the light already!

I just think its crazy.
"Make sure to bless G-d after eating bread."
"You mean because bread is like the staple food that we eat and since its so ubiquitous and also such an important part of our diet, its important to thank G-d for this blessing"
"No!!! Because Jesus!"

 

[Akivah]

But, The scriptural command says to give praise for bread. Jesus said "I am the bread".

So jesus is now synonymous with any usage of the word 'bread'?
"Waiter, I'll have a doughnut-shaped jesus with lox."

 

[Kemosloby]

What's the problem with giving thanks for everything under the Sun?

That's what we're trying to find out. Did Jesus go around that table thanking God for Peter, Matthew. John and the rest of the disciples. No, he just gave thanks for the bread, broke it and passed it around the table.

 

[Kemosloby]

So jesus is now synonymous with any usage of the word 'bread'?
"Waiter, I'll have a doughnut-shaped jesus with lox."

Umm, I don't think doughnuts lead to everlasting life. You could probably eat those without giving thanks.

John 6:51 " I am the living bread that came down from heaven. Whoever eats this bread will live forever. This bread is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world."

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

That's what we're trying to find out.

"We're" not trying to find out anything. You're trying to back into some ill-conceived Jesus sales talk.

It's drivel: worse, it's your drivel.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

John 6:51 ...

What the hell does this have to do with Jews?

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

I don't think you were following the flow of that conversation otherwise you'd realize your response has nothing to do with what I asked.

Either that...or more likely youd did not like or understand the implications of my answer.