Do the gospels report that Jesus liked his food and wine with nasty people, sometimes to excess?

[oldbadger]

Aw - the classic, "I'm losing this argument so I'll bring up a random topic to distract everyone from my epic fail!"

*Slow Clap*

You hope!
Jesus loved his meat and wine, to the point that the Baptist heard rumours about it and got worried.
And Jesus liked to eat and drink with all the bad people.

You should read about Jesus in, say, G-Mark....... and focus upon the real story. But I don't think that you do, FP.

 

[Fallen Prophet]

Source please!

"Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven." (Matthew 5:17-19)

The fact that you did not know this very well-known passage of scripture does not bode well for you in this conversation and backs up my earlier claim that you are arguing from ignorance.

Jesus did not live by the law! He disregarded several 'everyday' laws.

"Source please!"

I think I know what you are going to say and I am already laughing.

Do I need to teach you about this?

That's funny.

Enjoying your meat and wine, maybe sometimes to inebriation, doesn't mean you live in drunkenness or food excess. Jesus liked his meat and wine.

"Inebriation" and "drunkenness" are synonyms. If you are inebriated - you are drunk - by definition.

You have provided zero proof that the Lord Jesus Christ had ever been inebriated while I have supplied multiple Biblical passages condemning the practice.

Christians insist that Jesus REDACTED all the Old Testament Laws.

Who are these "Christians"?

Did they not read Matthew 5:17-19?

The Lord Jesus Christ provided the Higher Law - which still included many of the Laws given to Moses.

You don't know what you are talking about.

You need to make your mind up.

Me? I never said that the Lord Jesus Christ "redacted" anything.

Just stick to what Jesus said and did, FP.

You mean like when He said that He had come to fulfill the Law and the Prophets and how nothing should pass from the Law until it had all been fulfilled?

Or about how if men teach others to break the least of those commandments - like you - that they would be called the least in the kingdom of heaven?

Or maybe you are referring to the time that the Lord Jesus Christ never told anyone to become inebriated?

Or when the New Testament never recorded the Lord Jesus Christ becoming inebriated?

It looks like I'm the only when actually considering what the Lord Jesus Christ said while you are adding your own twists to the text.

I'm neither ignorant nor lazy (a bit insulting of you....yes?) ........ I just remember about what Jesus said and did and you don't seem to.

I never said that you were ignorant or lazy - but that your arguments were.

You not knowing about the Lord Jesus Christ claiming to fulfill the Law and the Prophets may be proof of your ignorance though.

And the fact that you just say whatever you want - without any regard for the Law and the Prophets - may be proof of your laziness.

You don't know what the Lord Jesus Christ said. You are literally just making stuff up.

 

[Fallen Prophet]

You hope!
Jesus loved his meat and wine, to the point that the Baptist heard rumours about it and got worried.
And Jesus liked to eat and drink with all the bad people.

You should read about Jesus in, say, G-Mark....... and focus upon the real story. But I don't think that you do, FP.

What? Are you talking about what John the Baptist heard while in prison?

Why do you give so much stock to what the enemies of the Lord Jesus Christ said about Him?

Simply because it supports your selfish narrative?

 

[oldbadger]

"Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Wonderful! And so, although Jesus REDACTED many food laws, ceremonial laws and sacrificial laws..... Oh...wait..... so you got the above wrong then. And by his actions he turned away from some harsh penalties for offences like adultery.

So you got some of right, FP.

 

[oldbadger]

"Inebriation" and "drunkenness" are synonyms. If you are inebriated - you are drunk - by definition.

You have provided zero proof that the Lord Jesus Christ had ever been inebriated while I have supplied multiple Biblical passages condemning the practice.

But we use those words in different ways, with different meanings, FP.
Person goes to party and drinks too much wine....... inebriated.
Person is in a perpetual stupour from alcohol........ alcoholic or (guttural) Drunkard.

The Baptist was worried about stories that he heard, that Jesus ate and drank, and with nasty people....
Luke:-
{7:34} The Son of man is come eating and drinking; and ye say, Behold a gluttonous man, and a
winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners!

God's early miracle of making masses of extra wine at a wedding celebration.
John:
{2:3}
And when they wanted wine, the mother of Jesus saith unto him, They have no wine. {2:4} Jesus saith unto her, Woman, what have I to do with thee? mine hour is not yet come. {2:5} His mother saith unto the servants, Whatsoever he saith unto you, do [it. ]{2:6} And there were set there six
waterpots of stone, after the manner of the purifying of the Jews, containing two or three firkins apiece. {2:7} Jesus saith unto them, Fill the waterpots with water. And they filled them up to the brim. {2:8} And he saith unto them, Draw out now, and bear unto the governor of the feast. And
they bare [it. ]{2:9} When the ruler of the feast had tasted the water that was made wine, and knew not whence it was:

If you ever need any help with the gospels, please just ask.

 

[oldbadger]

"Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Read your own words, FP. Jesus redacted the food, ceremonial and sacrificial laws. You clearly have not read the gospels. But you must have heard about this because you included in the same post.

The Lord Jesus Christ provided the Higher Law - which still included many of the Laws given to Moses.

You see?

You don't know what you are talking about.

Says you, after a couple of posts.

Me? I never said that the Lord Jesus Christ "redacted" anything.

I know.......... because you have not learned about what Jesus said, such as:-
Matthew {9:13} But go ye and learn what [that] meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

See? Go ye and learn, how Jesus redacted about a hundred laws in one sentence.

 

[oldbadger]

"
Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven." (Matthew 5:17-19)

This thread is all about what Jesus said and did, thus showing that he was totally against the amassing of wealth (mammon) and that he supported the old laws to provide for the poor.

Here are some poor laws....... learn them well, FP:-

Some of the Poor Laws:-
Leviticus {15:11} For the poor shall never cease out of the land: therefore I command thee, saying, Thou shalt open thine hand wide unto thy brother, to thy poor, and to thy needy, in thy land.

Leviticus {19:9} And when ye reap the harvest of your land, thou shalt not wholly reap the corners of thy field, neither shalt thou gather the gleanings of thy harvest.

Leviticus {19:10} And thou shalt not glean thy vineyard, neither shalt thou gather [every] grape of thy vineyard; thou shalt leave them for the poor and stranger: I [am] the LORD your God.

Deuteronomy {15:1} At the end of [every] seven years thou shalt make a release. {15:2} And this [is] the manner of the release: Every creditor that lendeth [ought] unto his neighbour shall release [it;] he shall not exact [it] of his neighbour, or of his brother; because it is called the LORD’S release.

Deut {15:7} If there be among you a poor man of one of thy brethren within any of thy gates in thy land which the LORD thy God giveth thee, thou shalt not harden thine heart, nor shut thine hand from thy poor brother: {15:8} But thou shalt open thine hand wide unto him, and shalt surely lend him sufficient for his need, [in that] which he wanteth.

 

[oldbadger]

What? Are you talking about what John the Baptist heard while in prison?

Why do you give so much stock to what the enemies of the Lord Jesus Christ said about Him?

Simply because it supports your selfish narrative?

Tell me, do you think that Jesus supped and dined with wicked people?
Or was that bit true?
The bits that fit your needs are accepted, like the above, possibly?
And the bits that don't fit are lies, possibly?


Maybe folks were just making mention of what they had seen for themselves?
Clearly the Baptist was worried about it.
But I never have been worried...... I think that a man like Jesus who ate and drank with very unpopular folks and stood up against the corrupt systems of that time was splendid.

And Jesus was a Galilean Nagar at that time....... not a Lord nor a Christ, had never heard the word 'Christ' in his lifetime. He spoke Eastern Aramaic, I expect.

 

[Fallen Prophet]

Wonderful! And so, although Jesus REDACTED many food laws, ceremonial laws and sacrificial laws..... Oh...wait..... so you got the above wrong then. And by his actions he turned away from some harsh penalties for offences like adultery.

So you got some of right, FP.

"Sources please!"

How could I get "the above wrong" - when all I did was quote what the New Testament claims the Lord Jesus Christ said?

But we use those words in different ways, with different meanings, FP.
Person goes to party and drinks too much wine....... inebriated.
Person is in a perpetual stupour from alcohol........ alcoholic or (guttural) Drunkard.

What are you talking about?

Someone who drinks too much wine is not necessarily an alcoholic - are you for real right now?

Anyone who drinks too much wine - and becomes inebriated - is also drunk or drunken - for they are synonyms.

Do you know what a synonym is?

When did I say that "inebriated" should mean "alcoholic" or "drunkard"?

The Baptist was worried about stories that he heard, that Jesus ate and drank, and with nasty people....
Luke:-
{7:34} The Son of man is come eating and drinking; and ye say, Behold a gluttonous man, and a
winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners!

What are you talking about?

The "stories" that John the Baptist heard were about the Lord Jesus Christ healing a Gentile - the servant to the centurion - and His raising a man from the dead - both could be seen as blasphemous actions - depending on how one interprets the Law and the Prophets.

Read the beginning of the chapter - seriously. After these miracles were recorded the Gospel of Luke records,

"And there came a fear on all: and they glorified God, saying, That a great prophet is risen up among us; and, That God hath visited his people.

And this rumour of him went forth throughout all Judæa, and throughout all the region round about.

And the disciples of John shewed him of all these things.

¶ And John calling unto him two of his disciples sent them to Jesus, saying, Art thou he that should come? or look we for another?" (Luke 7:16-19)

No where before these verses was there any mention that John the Baptist heard any "stories" about the Lord Jesus Christ eating and drinking with "nasty people".

The verse you quoted was the Lord Jesus Christ Himself mocking the Pharisees and lawyers.

I believe you tried to spin this yarn before in this thread. It didn't work then - so why did you believe it would work now?

You are literally just making stuff up.

God's early miracle of making masses of extra wine at a wedding celebration.
John:
{2:3}
And when they wanted wine, the mother of Jesus saith unto him, They have no wine. {2:4} Jesus saith unto her, Woman, what have I to do with thee? mine hour is not yet come. {2:5} His mother saith unto the servants, Whatsoever he saith unto you, do [it. ]{2:6} And there were set there six
waterpots of stone, after the manner of the purifying of the Jews, containing two or three firkins apiece. {2:7} Jesus saith unto them, Fill the waterpots with water. And they filled them up to the brim. {2:8} And he saith unto them, Draw out now, and bear unto the governor of the feast. And
they bare [it. ]{2:9} When the ruler of the feast had tasted the water that was made wine, and knew not whence it was:

The drinking of wine was not forbidden by the Law and none of these verses claim that the Lord Jesus Christ had become inebriated or that He even drank any of the wine at the wedding feast.

What point were you trying to prove?

If you ever need any help with the gospels, please just ask.

This is hilarious.

Read your own words, FP. Jesus redacted the food, ceremonial and sacrificial laws. You clearly have not read the gospels. But you must have heard about this because you included in the same post.

"Sources please!"

You see?

See what?

Says you, after a couple of posts.

Pretty sure I have been saying this since the beginning.

I know.......... because you have not learned about what Jesus said, such as:-
Matthew {9:13} But go ye and learn what [that] meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

See? Go ye and learn, how Jesus redacted about a hundred laws in one sentence.

I have no idea what you think you just said - but now you owe me sources of a "hundred laws" being redacted by the Lord Jesus Christ.

This thread is all about what Jesus said and did, thus showing that he was totally against the amassing of wealth (mammon) and that he supported the old laws to provide for the poor.

Here are some poor laws....... learn them well, FP:-

Some of the Poor Laws:-
Leviticus {15:11} For the poor shall never cease out of the land: therefore I command thee, saying, Thou shalt open thine hand wide unto thy brother, to thy poor, and to thy needy, in thy land.

Leviticus {19:9} And when ye reap the harvest of your land, thou shalt not wholly reap the corners of thy field, neither shalt thou gather the gleanings of thy harvest.

Leviticus {19:10} And thou shalt not glean thy vineyard, neither shalt thou gather [every] grape of thy vineyard; thou shalt leave them for the poor and stranger: I [am] the LORD your God.

Deuteronomy {15:1} At the end of [every] seven years thou shalt make a release. {15:2} And this [is] the manner of the release: Every creditor that lendeth [ought] unto his neighbour shall release [it;] he shall not exact [it] of his neighbour, or of his brother; because it is called the LORD’S release.

Deut {15:7} If there be among you a poor man of one of thy brethren within any of thy gates in thy land which the LORD thy God giveth thee, thou shalt not harden thine heart, nor shut thine hand from thy poor brother: {15:8} But thou shalt open thine hand wide unto him, and shalt surely lend him sufficient for his need, [in that] which he wanteth.

To quote you from Post #83,

"...... and none of it, any of it, spoken by Jesus."

Even though I do believe that the Lord Jesus Christ wants us to give to the poor - He would never support a mandate for such a thing.

You understand that most of the Patriarchs and Prophet were considered incredibly wealthy - don't you?

Tell me, do you think that Jesus supped and dined with wicked people?
Or was that bit true?
The bits that fit your needs are accepted, like the above, possibly?
And the bits that don't fit are lies, possibly?

The Lord Jesus Christ Himself claimed to eat with publicans and sinners because "They that be whole need not a physician, but they that are sick." (Matthew 9:12)

So - yes - I will believe the words of the Lord Jesus Christ over the words of those who hated Him.

Maybe folks were just making mention of what they had seen for themselves?
Clearly the Baptist was worried about it.

No - you are just making stuff up. Read the entire chapter.

But I never have been worried...... I think that a man like Jesus who ate and drank with very unpopular folks and stood up against the corrupt systems of that time was splendid.

Yes - it was - but you are not familiar enough with the subject matter to understand that His defying the "corrupt systems" was never a defiance of the Law of Moses.

He condemned the Man-made practices and systems of the Pharisees - not the Law.

And Jesus was a Galilean Nagar at that time....... not a Lord nor a Christ, had never heard the word 'Christ' in his lifetime. He spoke Eastern Aramaic, I expect.

This is not true at all - Greek was a very common language spoken all throughout the Roman Empire and the Lord Jesus Christ would most definitely have heard it spoken and seen it written - He may even have known some - if not a lot - Himself.

Why do you think the New Testament was originally written in Greek?

And stop calling me "FP" - you use it way too often and it bugs.

 

[oldbadger]

"Sources please!"

How could I get "the above wrong" - when all I did was quote what the New Testament claims the Lord Jesus Christ said?

FP, you are so full of your own words that any quotes from the gospels are well hidden within.

Sacrificial Laws? One source of many actions and words?
Matthew {9:13} But go ye and learn what [that] meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

Jesus turning away from adultery? Although Jesus spoke out against adultery he certainly redacted any punishments against it, FP

John {8:3} And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst, {8:4} They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act. {8:5} Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what
sayest thou? {8:6} This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with [his] finger wrote on the ground, [as though he heard them not. ]{8:7} So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin
among you, let him first cast a stone at her. {8:8} And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground. {8:9} And they which heard [it,] being convicted by [their own] conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, [even] unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.

 

[oldbadger]

What are you talking about?

Someone who drinks too much wine is not necessarily an alcoholic - are you for real right now?

Anyone who drinks too much wine - and becomes inebriated - is also drunk or drunken - for they are synonyms.

In your mind, FP.
But most folks use the word 'inebriated' in your first two examples, above, and not drunkard.

Do you know what a synonym is?

When did I say that "inebriated" should mean "alcoholic" or "drunkard"?

What are you talking about?

You've tried to marry the two terms together from the beginning, FP.

I think that the idea of your God having a good drink of wine with folks that you might not sit with is irritating for you, FP.
So your God can burn thousands, rip down city walls, bring death in wars, etc etc (read your bible, FP!) but not enjoy a good drink with his meat?
And those nasty Priests, how do you know that they lied? The Baptist wasn't sure..... but do you think you know it all?

 

[oldbadger]

"

No where before these verses was there any mention that John the Baptist heard any "stories" about the Lord Jesus Christ eating and drinking with "nasty people".

The verse you quoted was the Lord Jesus Christ Himself mocking the Pharisees and lawyers.

Because Jesus had just heard Disciples who were sent to enquire, 'Are you the one?' which of course could be difficult because the Baptist was supposed to know Jesus very very well, being a relative.

The drinking of wine was not forbidden by the Law and none of these verses claim that the Lord Jesus Christ had become inebriated or that He even drank any of the wine at the wedding feast.

What point were you trying to prove?

Excellent! You're getting there slowly.
Wine was a staple source of safe beverage back then. And Jesus drank it with his meat, with people who you wouldn't like much (imo) and there were folks who mentioned this.

But your God can't drink too much wine, it seems.

This is hilarious.

Yes, Fallen Prophet...... it is.

 

[oldbadger]

"
I have no idea what you think you just said - but now you owe me sources of a "hundred laws" being redacted by the Lord Jesus Christ.

I don't think you would know it, but there were 613 laws of Moses, and about 100 of these were all about sacrifice and ceremony which the Baptist and Jesus both were dead set against.

I know this because the disciples of both Baptist and Jesus were offering redemption and cleansing thru' immersion in water for nothing, and thus thousands of folks didn't feel the need to get ripped off at the Temple. What did you think that was all about, FP?

Plus his repeated speeches about 'Mercy and not sacrifice'. Please just read the gospels, FP.

Even though I do believe that the Lord Jesus Christ wants us to give to the poor - He would never support a mandate for such a thing.

SOURCES PLEASE! Exactly where did Jesus say that he would not support a mandate of giving for the benefit of the poor? WE know he didn't support funds to the leaders because they kept them.

You understand that most of the Patriarchs and Prophet were considered incredibly wealthy - don't you?

Who is your Prophet/God? The Patriarch and Prophet or Jesus?

The Lord Jesus Christ Himself claimed to eat with publicans and sinners because "They that be whole need not a physician, but they that are sick." (Matthew 9:12)

Jesus sat with the people that he wanted to sit with.

No - you are just making stuff up. Read the entire chapter.

Back at you, FP

Yes - it was - but you are not familiar enough with the subject matter to understand that His defying the "corrupt systems" was never a defiance of the Law of Moses.

He condemned the Man-made practices and systems of the Pharisees - not the Law.

Jesus supported the Laws of Moses, about 500 of them. He redacted the other 100.
However I have yet to read any Christian who supports 500 of the laws of Moses. I wonder whether you do?
I doubt it.

This is not true at all - Greek was a very common language spoken all throughout the Roman Empire and the Lord Jesus Christ would most definitely have heard it spoken and seen it written - He may even have known some - if not a lot - Himself.

So you think that the peasant classes of the Galilee and Northern Provinces of Palestine spoke or understood Greek?
Any Levite officials would have, but the peasant classes? They spoke Eastern Aramaic!

Why do you think the New Testament was originally written in Greek?

Ha ha ha! Because of this you think that Jesus could speak (read/write) Greek?
The people who spun Christianity (to the Romans) from the life of Jesus wrote in Greek. What the people who founded the Eastern Orthodox churches wrote in..... I have no idea.

Jesus was a Galilean Nagar working (probably) in wood, stone and other materials. He spoke as Galileans did.
You really should read your gospels! The Southern (Judean?) woman at the entrance to the Court told Cephas .....'Are you one of them? You speak like they do!'
Go and look it up......... read it. Remember it.

 

[oldbadger]

And stop calling me "FP" - you use it way too often and it bugs.

Some members abbreviate other members' RF (that's Religious Forums, Fallen Prophet) names.
You are the first to criticise that, but I will not forget.
From now on, always and forever I shall call you 'Fallen Prophet'.

....and don't forget that Cephas did not speak like Judean folks, he spoke like 'them', like Jesus. Galilean Aramaic, Fallen Prophet.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

St. Paul speaks truth of the Lord saying "He was like us in all things but sin.

But Paul is lying. Jesus even breaks commandments.

 

[Lain]

But Paul is lying. Jesus even breaks commandments.

Such is by definition impossible (in the truest sense of that word), but alright. At least in my opinion it is.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

It was because He lived according to the Law and the teachings of the Prophets that He could justly call out the hypocrisy of the Jewish elders - who claimed to live by both but didn't.

Like when Jesus broke commandments ?

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

Such is by definition impossible (in the truest sense of that word), but alright. At least in my opinion it is.

He dishonored his parents. He worked on the sabbath. He committed assault and vandalism. He was racist to non-Jews. He was a hypocrite. His ministry got people killed by exacerbating troubles between Jews and Romans. He wouldn’t even help wash the dishes.

 

[Lain]

He dishonored his parents. He worked on the sabbath. He committed assault and vandalism. He was racist to non-Jews. He was a hypocrite. His ministry got people killed by exacerbating troubles between Jews and Romans. He wouldn’t even help wash the dishes.

Fascinating opinions.

 

[Fallen Prophet]

He dishonored his parents. He worked on the sabbath. He committed assault and vandalism. He was racist to non-Jews. He was a hypocrite. His ministry got people killed by exacerbating troubles between Jews and Romans. He wouldn’t even help wash the dishes.

Like when Jesus broke commandments ?

Sources please!