Do we really have free will?

[Clara Tea]

Free will - the ability to act at one's own discretion.

Anyone that post here on this forum exhibits free will.

In my opinion the arguenent isn't the existence of free will but how it came about,,, god given or naturally evolved.

It's sort of like the time I worried about a caged bird. It wasn't my bird, but I argued that it can't be owned by anyone else...it is a free agent, and supposed to fly freely where it wants.

At this point, I pried the cage door open, grabbed the bird, tossed it into the air and said "you're free.....you're free."

A hawk swooped down and ate it.

I am left to ponder the thought that maybe God motivated that hawk? Maybe incarceration is preferable to death?

Our former president, who called himself humble, and called himself the "environmental president" was the one who, motivated by mammon, destroyed many parts of the earth, and caused extinction of many species (never to live again, unless they can somehow revive the DNA). Around the world, species are dying from Global Warming, and the drought that it produced.

As a result, many species are extinct in the world, except for zoos. Some zoos (like the San Diego, California zoo), make a somewhat natural environment for their animals, and often can breed them in captivity, while lesser zoos fail.

This begs the question....is freedom preferable to survival? Is freedom better than 3 square meals per day? The movie Madagascar made that point, as well. The friendly performing lion was picturing his animal friends as dinners.

Free will is almost the same as being out of a cage. It is fraught with dangers and opportunities.

 

[ChristineM]

Do you think we have free will to make choices or do you think that fate/God is controlling everything we do? In other words, can we make our own choices or is everything we will ever do already been decided upon by God and we are just acting out what has been written on the Tablet of Fate? Are we all just actors in a movie that God has scripted?

I ask this because I do not think I have the free will to change much of anything in my life yet I feel like I need to change many things. But I cannot seem to change them. I am very strong willed person so whenever I set out to do something it gets done, but I cannot seem to make up my mind to do certain things and do them, so I feel stuck in a lifestyle I do not like.

Maybe I am stuck because it is not meant to be that I change anything right now, because I am doing what God has willed/scripted for me, or maybe I should be doing these things. One thing I know is that I cannot make myself do things to change my situation even though I am somewhat unhappy with the way certain things are.

This has nothing to do with money because I have plenty of money, much more than I could ever spend in my lifetime, even if I never worked one more day of my life. Time is an issue since there is only so much time, but why can’t I decide to take the time to do things that I feel I need to do? I am not a lazy person, anything but, so that is not the reason. I am also physically fit and mentally capable, so that’s not it either.

You have free will, you can choose to do whatever you want. Example, arrive at a junction, you decide to go left, right or straight ahead. What's for dinner, should i jump off this cliff. All free will choices.

Perhaps comfort with your situation, perhaps its just to much hassle and i can't be bothered, procrastination comes from various places.

The way I find is useful is set your mind to it, set a date and make it happen.

There are times i have not followed my own advice and deeply regret my inaction.

 

[KerimF]

Anyone that post here on this forum exhibits free will.

Actually, anyone that posts here on this forum, I included, just follows the pre-programmed instructions (instincts), embedded in his living flesh by the WILL behind his existence.
The good news is that we have all the impression that we are free every time we take a decision. A decision is actually just the execution of a conditional jump (in our instincts code/program); much like an intelligent robot is programmed to do when facing a new situation.

This explains why no one liked commenting on my post #34 because humans are supposed to believe they are free even if they have (other than their instincts) zillion of rules/regulations to obey/observe, from the time they wake up to the time they are asleep again

 

[osgart]

To change one's will is to change one's heart about their will. While you are free to do that, you may not want to one bit. Or circumstances and their priorities determine what you will do, and you simply don't have enough time or energy to do something else you might do if only...

Perhaps you are a careful planner who has a routine that's really important to you. And the change doesn't fit just yet into your plans.

Or perhaps you are so caught up in God's will, that you have no time for your own will. I know I would have done differently about a lot of things had I known better, or had better information available to me.

People get caught up in doing the demands of some other will, and they end up not doing anything their own will.

Or maybe the change isn't fully worked out yet, and you are in limbo about it. You haven't come to a full decision for other reasons.

Or maybe we are creatures of habit, with high tolerance for things that aren't quite optimal.

I do think my own will is governed by inefficient priorities I have. Which is why I investigate existential questions way too much. I find enjoyment in inconvenient pursuits sometimes.

Or maybe It's like taking a plunge into ice cold water, you try to warm up to making the change but can't.

I'm guessing a lot.

I know sometimes for me something else comes up often, then the very thing I want to be doing.

 

[Aupmanyav]

One does what circumstances force him to do. Free-will is a mirage. Even turning left or right has reasons.

 

[Deidre]

I don't believe God knows the future absolutely, and doesn't know who and will not go to heaven regarding the people brought to the world to be tested and is testing us in real time to see what we will choose to be.

Interesting. So, will God be as surprised as us when we die?

 

[Link]

Interesting. So, will God be as surprised as us when we die?

Not when we die, but sometimes, if he is guiding us and we walking straight, we can surprise him by burning up our wings and falling into the darkness by some change of state.

 

[McBell]

Do you think we have free will to make choices or do you think that fate/God is controlling everything we do? In other words, can we make our own choices or is everything we will ever do already been decided upon by God and we are just acting out what has been written on the Tablet of Fate? Are we all just actors in a movie that God has scripted?

I ask this because I do not think I have the free will to change much of anything in my life yet I feel like I need to change many things. But I cannot seem to change them. I am very strong willed person so whenever I set out to do something it gets done, but I cannot seem to make up my mind to do certain things and do them, so I feel stuck in a lifestyle I do not like.

Maybe I am stuck because it is not meant to be that I change anything right now, because I am doing what God has willed/scripted for me, or maybe I should be doing these things. One thing I know is that I cannot make myself do things to change my situation even though I am somewhat unhappy with the way certain things are.

This has nothing to do with money because I have plenty of money, much more than I could ever spend in my lifetime, even if I never worked one more day of my life. Time is an issue since there is only so much time, but why can’t I decide to take the time to do things that I feel I need to do? I am not a lazy person, anything but, so that is not the reason. I am also physically fit and mentally capable, so that’s not it either.

Seems to me you will need to define the parameters of what you mean by "free will".
I bring this up because there are many a person who thinks free will can not exist because they confuse the ability to choose to fly with the inability to fly.

If you have no free will, then you can not make any choices, right?
So you have never chosen what to have for dinner?
Or what outfit to wear?
Or who to be around, or who to kiss, marry?

Do you believe your inability to make a decision is representative of the whole population?

I have the right to remain silent.
But do I have the ability?

 

[leroy]

Do you think we have free will to make choices or do you think that fate/God is controlling everything we do? In other words, can we make our own choices or is everything we will ever do already been decided upon by God and we are just acting out what has been written on the Tablet of Fate? Are we all just actors in a movie that God has scripted?

I ask this because I do not think I have the free will to change much of anything in my life yet I feel like I need to change many things. But I cannot seem to change them. I am very strong willed person so whenever I set out to do something it gets done, but I cannot seem to make up my mind to do certain things and do them, so I feel stuck in a lifestyle I do not like.

Maybe I am stuck because it is not meant to be that I change anything right now, because I am doing what God has willed/scripted for me, or maybe I should be doing these things. One thing I know is that I cannot make myself do things to change my situation even though I am somewhat unhappy with the way certain things are.

This has nothing to do with money because I have plenty of money, much more than I could ever spend in my lifetime, even if I never worked one more day of my life. Time is an issue since there is only so much time, but why can’t I decide to take the time to do things that I feel I need to do? I am not a lazy person, anything but, so that is not the reason. I am also physically fit and mentally capable, so that’s not it either.

Yes I would say that we have free will,

Are we all just actors in a movie that God has scripted?

actors from movies also have free will, but I see your point.

 

[robocop (actually)]

Do you think we have free will to make choices or do you think that fate/God is controlling everything we do? In other words, can we make our own choices or is everything we will ever do already been decided upon by God and we are just acting out what has been written on the Tablet of Fate? Are we all just actors in a movie that God has scripted?

I ask this because I do not think I have the free will to change much of anything in my life yet I feel like I need to change many things. But I cannot seem to change them. I am very strong willed person so whenever I set out to do something it gets done, but I cannot seem to make up my mind to do certain things and do them, so I feel stuck in a lifestyle I do not like.

Maybe I am stuck because it is not meant to be that I change anything right now, because I am doing what God has willed/scripted for me, or maybe I should be doing these things. One thing I know is that I cannot make myself do things to change my situation even though I am somewhat unhappy with the way certain things are.

This has nothing to do with money because I have plenty of money, much more than I could ever spend in my lifetime, even if I never worked one more day of my life. Time is an issue since there is only so much time, but why can’t I decide to take the time to do things that I feel I need to do? I am not a lazy person, anything but, so that is not the reason. I am also physically fit and mentally capable, so that’s not it either.

I don't believe in free will or time, but I do believe in God, velocity and consciousness.

 

[jonathan180iq]

Do you think we have free will to make choices or do you think that fate/God is controlling everything we do?

Even removing the concept of a deity from the equation, what makes anyone think freewill exists?

I'd say I believe in the limitation of both free experience, and free will.

 

[rrobs]

Do you think we have free will to make choices or do you think that fate/God is controlling everything we do? In other words, can we make our own choices or is everything we will ever do already been decided upon by God and we are just acting out what has been written on the Tablet of Fate? Are we all just actors in a movie that God has scripted?

I ask this because I do not think I have the free will to change much of anything in my life yet I feel like I need to change many things. But I cannot seem to change them. I am very strong willed person so whenever I set out to do something it gets done, but I cannot seem to make up my mind to do certain things and do them, so I feel stuck in a lifestyle I do not like.

Maybe I am stuck because it is not meant to be that I change anything right now, because I am doing what God has willed/scripted for me, or maybe I should be doing these things. One thing I know is that I cannot make myself do things to change my situation even though I am somewhat unhappy with the way certain things are.

This has nothing to do with money because I have plenty of money, much more than I could ever spend in my lifetime, even if I never worked one more day of my life. Time is an issue since there is only so much time, but why can’t I decide to take the time to do things that I feel I need to do? I am not a lazy person, anything but, so that is not the reason. I am also physically fit and mentally capable, so that’s not it either.

Deut 30:19,

I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, [that] I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:​

Josh 24:15,

And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that [were] on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.​

Judg 10:14,

Go and cry unto the gods which ye have chosen; let them deliver you in the time of your tribulation.​

There are many other verses that indicate we choose. Jesus had a choice to die on the cross or not. He didn't particularly want to die, but he chose to ignore his desire and follow that of his Father, Yahweh.

Luke 22:42,

Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done.
​

I like to look at life as follows:

1) The devil is always voting against us
2) God is always voting for us

So far, the election is tied, 1 for and 1 against. Who breaks the tie?​

3) We each cast our own vote to break the tie. We are free to side with either the devil of God.

It always amuses me when people blame God for killing an innocent person (as though there is such a person - another discussion there). What do they think the devil does with his time? Sit around and watch God cause all kinds of problems and then laugh about it?

As far as being stuck, I wouldn't worry about it. Lot's of Bible characters were "stuck" for many years. Moses didn't do anything of importance until he was 80 years old. Paul went off for 3 years after meeting Jesus. Only after that did he return to Jerusalem and begin his ministry. There are other examples.

In any case, this life doesn't always go the way we might want it to go. The devil is pretty sly and tricks all of us every day. We just have to try the best we can, be patient and wait for Jesus to set up a better reality on the new earth.

God gave dominion to man in Genesis 1:26. They in turn transferred it to the devil. When Jesus was tempted in the desert, he didn't argue with the devil when the devil told Jesus he held the power of this world. Jesus knew this world is ruled by the devil. God is most definitely NOT in control. Does this world look like a place run by God who is love, who is light? Doesn't seem like much of a loving place to me. Unless of course, we like wars, famines, droughts, disease, etc.

 

[Jeremiah Ames]

I base that belief upon God being all-powerful so I believe God has the power to do anything that is within His nature to do as God. Logically speaking, if God can nudge us in a good direction then God can control any of our actions if He wanted to.

i think I can remember back to a specific example of that, but In that case another person did something to drastically change my mind about a course of action.

so I wonder if God can control people directly, indirectly, or both?

 

[Trailblazer]

Dear Trailblazer

Even if we say that Man has free will and freedom of choice, the will must be there for a choice to be made.

When you have had the will to do/change something, you have, you say.

Is your question whether the reason for your lack of sufficient will to do/change certain other things, is due to God or due to yourself? Perhaps that depends on whether those “things” are worldly or spiritual…?

Humbly
Hermit

I think it is probably due to myself and it is because those things are worldly, so I do not consider them very important. Thanks for helping me realize that.

The problem that remains is that I still have to live in the material world, until I cross over to the spiritual world, so I have to deal with what that entails. That takes time, and I do not want to spend time on it, so I do the minimum, what is absolutely necessary.

 

[Trailblazer]

So don't worry, the majority in the world is created just to serve the world (as all other living things are) without the need to have any free will. The good news is that this doesn't prevent all of them to think they have free will every time they take a crucial decision (i.e. following a certain embedded instruction of a rather complex conditional jump).

I believe that everyone has free will to make moral choices but not everyone uses that free to rise above the animal condition. As such many, perhaps most people, live for the world, so they are not really much different than animals who operate on animal instincts. They have no need for free will even though they have it.

 

[Trailblazer]

I don't believe God knows the future absolutely, and doesn't know who and will not go to heaven regarding the people brought to the world to be tested and is testing us in real time to see what we will choose to be.

I agree that this world is a test, but I believe that God already knows if we will pass that test before we pass it......
God knows the past, present, and future simultaneously because God's essential knowledge surrounds the realities of all things, so even if we have not passed a test, God knows if and when and how we will pass it. That means the test is for our benefit, so we can become what we will become by passing the test, that which God already knows we will become.

 

[Trailblazer]

I think free will doesn’t mean that we can control everything, it means only that we can freely want what ever we want. And I don’t know about you, but I have free will, I can want whatever I want freely, no one is doing it on behalf of me. And every action I make, I am responsible by myself.

Thanks, that was very helpful.
I can want whatever I want even if I cannot have everything I want. I have to choose from what is available to me at any given moment, and I am responsible for that choice. If people are aware that they have free will, then they are aware that they are making these choices. If they are not aware that they have free will, they might just go through life making choices but unaware as to why they chose one thing or another thing.

 

[Trailblazer]

In my opinion the argument isn't the existence of free will but how it came about,,, god given or naturally evolved.

I believe it was given to us by God. If we did not have free will how could we choose to believe in God?
I believe that God wants us to freely choose to believe in Him and that is why God provides the evidence and allows us to choose to believe or not believe.

Of course, that is not the only reason we have free will, we have to choose to do anything we do or it won't get done. from the everyday choices such as whether we will go to the grocery store to the major life choices such as whether we will get married, have children, or go to college, for example.

 

[Trailblazer]

Toss the cat....adopt me.

I will not toss the cats but I will adopt you if you know how to do yard-work, housework, and home repairs.

 

[Trailblazer]

I am left to ponder the thought that maybe God motivated that hawk? Maybe incarceration is preferable to death?

If incarceration was not preferable to death, then some people would not believe that capital punishment is immoral.
If incarceration was not preferable to death, then criminals would not plea bargain in order to avoid the death sentence.
For most criminals, a life sentence is better than death.
I feel like I am incarcerated in my house, but since it is a choice it is not really incarceration.