Do You Agree?

[YoursTrue]

God is fair

Raping someone is like killing someone, sometimes even worse (unless one is fully enlightened of course)

Here is a section I got about that -- from the Law of Moses given to the nation of Israel. They were supposed to follow it. (They didn't always, but this is the Law God gave Moses.)
"Under the Law, if an engaged girl committed fornication with another man, both she and the man were to be put to death. But if the girl screamed for help, this was taken as proof of her innocence. The man was put to death for his sin in which he forced her, and the girl was exonerated.—De 22:23-27."
So there are a few things there, including the law about fornication, also rape.

 

[stvdv]

Under the Law, if an engaged girl committed fornication with another man, both she and the man were to be put to death. But if the girl screamed for help, this was taken as proof of her innocence. The man was put to death for his sin in which he forced her, and the girl was exonerated.—De 22:23-27."
So there are a few things there, including the law about fornication, also rape.

Thank you for the link in pm. What a horror in those years. Although nowadays it might be not much better

Very clear that fornication is a "no go". God will give you a "not so nice" surprise one day. And I think that this still applies, otherwise life would not be fair. The smart ones live a pure life

Lucky for me I always did my best to follow "hurt never". That's relatively easy for me, esp. as I live a celibate life on my own. Just me and God

Question: Here they talk about an "engaged girl". What if a young girl (not engaged) got raped (in those days) and screamed? I hope the same punishment. Would be fair

 

[YoursTrue]

Thank you for the link in pm. What a horror in those years. Although nowadays it might be not much better

Very clear that fornication is a "no go". God will give you a "not so nice" surprise one day. And I think that this still applies, otherwise life would not be fair. The smart ones live a pure life

Lucky for me I always did my best to follow "hurt never". That's relatively easy for me, esp. as I live a celibate life on my own. Just me and God

Question: Here they talk about an "engaged girl". What if a young girl (not engaged) got raped (in those days) and screamed? I hope the same punishment. Would be fair

My dear stvdv, I must tell you that before I studied the Bible, I did things that God definitely disapproved of. There were few things I did not do, except I thought taking heroin or cocaine would be a serious problem so I desisted. I was almoist raped, but I fought like anything, I didn't know the Bible but I knew what the results might have been. I told the man (someone I knew) that he'd have to kill me first, so -- he stopped. I guess he wasn't a killer-type. I never saw him again anyway.
Now I go by what I believe is the law of Christ -- and pray every day for God to forgive me for my sins, some of which (like fornication) I no longer indulge in. Because of God's law, the narrow path. Isn't always easy. Take care. Please do read the link I provided in messaging, it's not long. I will look up more information when I can. Have a good day, as usual, pleasure talking with you.

 

[stvdv]

dear stvdv, I must tell you that before I studied the Bible, I did things that God definitely disapproved of

I have done those also. I was lucky to meet Sai Baba at quite a young age, 24 (1990), and His Teaching is quite extreme (live a very pure Godly life if you desire God, but He won't judge you if you choose worldly life), but living pure and improve myself felt very good and natural to me. He gradually detached me from worldly attachments and got me attached to God

. I was almoist raped, but I fought like anything, I didn't know the Bible but I knew what the results might have been. I told the man (someone I knew) that he'd have to kill me first, so -- he stopped. I guess he wasn't a killer-type. I never saw him again anyway

Wow. Unbelievable that a man whom you know would do that. Must have been a narcissist. They feel entitled to "take". I stay far from narcissists

I go by what I believe is the law of Christ -- and pray every day for God to forgive me for my sins, some of which (like fornication) I no longer indulge in. Because of God's law, the narrow path. Isn't always easy

Definitely true. Not easy. Sai Baba told us "if God was to kill all the bad people, none would survive". So, I have no illusion...my head would be chopped off too. Only by God's Grace I can succeed. I need God

Take care. Please do read the link I provided in messaging, it's not long. I will look up more information when I can. Have a good day, as usual, pleasure talking with you.

I did read your link already (see my first line in previous reply). You need not look too hard for more info. If God wants, He will give you the info to send. At least, that's what I experience more and more

E.g.: Yesterday I told you my weakness is overeating. Today God told me to go to a specific Church. My God, it was all about addictions (overeating was of course specifically mentioned ) AND the solution was given. I don't believe in coincidence, I know God guides me. Today is the day I am ready to give this one up. That was a big one. Finally

Love, Peace and Blessings

 

[nPeace]

Interesting indeed, you bring in "good" old Satan? Beware, you might open a can of worms you don't like. I mean, he is Satan after all AND then I can't withhold the truth

@YoursTrue and @stvdv agreed that going against God is Satanic, as you also imply here, and for sure not wise to do this. So in a way the biggest Religion is Satan's Religion, as all pay tribute to (worship) Satan (go against God) on a daily basis...maybe except a few rare Saints

For me, the most intriguing part of Spirituality is to find my own demons (flaws) AND kill them (don't do it again), but some are still on my ToDo list, meaning I still worship Satan (Go against God) in a way... right?

So, you stumbled on my favorite subject. If you are interested (probably not), I can share more. I don't share this normally, because people are not honest when it comes to this, and don't like to admit their flaws, and rather come up with lame excuses...understandable from psychology POV, but lame nevertheless

I don't mind discussing spiritual things at all.
"Go away Satan" is a good place to start.

That quote is taken from the Bible - Jesus' words.
Some people say Jesus was talking to himself, but for many scriptural reasons, that is not possible.
Aside from Luke 10:18, and John 8:44 which identifies Satan as a real individual, and an angelic being, as well as numerous other scriptures, Jesus was sinless. He had no flaws - no sinful tendencies or inclinations.

Not only was he perfect, and born sinless, but he was always connected to God, and never deviated.
So, if we go by the Bible, when Jesus told Satan to go away, he was not trying to overcome a flaw or sinful tendency. He was talking to God's chief enemy - a wicked spirit creature.

(Ephesians 6:11-12) 11 Put on the complete suit of armor from God so that you may be able to stand firm against the crafty acts of the Devil; 12 because we have a struggle, not against blood and flesh, but against the governments, against the authorities, against the world rulers of this darkness, against the wicked spirit forces in the heavenly places.

 

[nPeace]

Thanks, interesting...fuels introspection
I am very practical and love simplicity

This gave me another great Eureka

You provided kind of Biblical proof that abortion in case of rape is the only Dharmic solution

Parents have sex and no pure mind, hence a child is born from lust, hence impure mind, hence alienated from God. We should not want (approve) this vicious cycle to continue if Peace and Love is our goal

hence

One big reason+proof that abortion SHOULD be allowed (encouraged even) in case of RAPE, right?
(great, and no coincidence, that God created it in a way, that it takes 4 month and 9 days before life force enters the foetus, plenty of time to come to a Dharmic decision for most)

Not following your reasoning here @stvdv.
What's the difference between a child born from sex between a married man and woman, prostitution, an "affair", or rape?

 

[Bird123]

I watched a CNN cast condemn officers for not storming the classroom and taking out the gunman. One person even suggested those officers are not worthy to be cops, and should hand in their badge.
I watched the video - muted of course, since I didn't want to hear anything.
I think the first responders were not equipped either mentally, physically, or experienced enough to handle the situation.
The trained and equipped officers arrived 30 minutes later, and moved in a little after 15 minutes - no doubt after a briefing of the situation and planned action - taking out the gunman.
I think those CNN "experts" owe those cops an apology.
It seems many other people... including an ex chief of police agree with them.
What do you think... Would it have been wise for those cops to have stormed the classroom? What do you think might have been the outcome?

Fear comes from the unknown. This is in everyone's case. Training is what is badly needed. Training is needed across the entire United States. So many bad situations could be avoided if only officers knew how.

Equipped with body armor and having the training to handle that situation, there is very little fear. Just go in and get the job done.

There are professionals who can teach others exactly what to do. Why isn't it being done? Such training might weed out the bad police people as well. It's a Win Win!!

What else could be done to find potential shooters in order to prevent and help people? Isn't it time society works on the real problems? Problems never go away until they are solved. Yes, there is much that can be done, however it does take work. How many more will be hurt when the real problems continue to be ignored??

Blame is one of the petty things mankind holds so dear. Let's forget blame and focus on solving the real problems. So much more will get done that way.

How about this: The USA has military people all over the world. Would it really be so hard to have 2 well trained, well armed soldiers in every school. A shooter might think twice knowing there will be more than helpless children to confront. If the USA can have people all over the world, how about taking care of children at home first?

My point is that the USA has a diverse, intelligent culture. Instead of valuing blame, let's all put our heads together and solve the problems.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[nPeace]

Question: Here they talk about an "engaged girl". What if a young girl (not engaged) got raped (in those days) and screamed? I hope the same punishment. Would be fair

As long as there is proof of rape, whether the girl was engaged or not, the rapist was to be put to death.

If there was no proof of rape, the man was to be put to death if the girl is engaged. He commited adultery.
If she was not engaged, and the father of the girl approved, they would marry. (Deuteronomy 22:23-29)

If the father disapproves of the marriage, the man was to pay a price, but he would not get the girl. (Exodus 22:16, 17)

 

[nPeace]

Fear comes from the unknown. This is in everyone's case. Training is what is badly needed. Training is needed across the entire United States. So many bad situations could be avoided if only officers knew how.

Equipped with body armor and having the training to handle that situation, there is very little fear. Just go in and get the job done.

There are professionals who can teach others exactly what to do. Why isn't it being done? Such training might weed out the bad police people as well. It's a Win Win!!

What else could be done to find potential shooters in order to prevent and help people? Isn't it time society works on the real problems? Problems never go away until they are solved. Yes, there is much that can be done, however it does take work. How many more will be hurt when the real problems continue to be ignored??

Blame is one of the petty things mankind holds so dear. Let's forget blame and focus on solving the real problems. So much more will get done that way.

How about this: The USA has military people all over the world. Would it really be so hard to have 2 well trained, well armed soldiers in every school. A shooter might think twice knowing there will be more than helpless children to confront. If the USA can have people all over the world, how about taking care of children at home first?

My point is that the USA has a diverse, intelligent culture. Instead of valuing blame, let's all put our heads together and solve the problems.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

I guess that is the problem. Everyone is working against each other, so putting heads together results in pain and conflicts, rather than solutions and peace.

That's to be expected though, in light of the facts. 1 John 5:19

 

[Sheldon]

Sheldon said: ↑
That has been demonstrated not to be true in multiple other countries, and the US has a massively higher rate of gun crime and deaths than other developed countries that have such gun laws. They also have the highest number of privately owned guns per capita in the world now. This is called evidence, what you posted is just a subjective unevidenced claim.

But there is no evidence the reason is the guns.

You don't think guns are used in gun violence? Seriously? It's hard to know what to say to that. America has a far higher rate of gun violence than any other developed western democracy, and the most lax laws on gun ownership, and the most privately owned guns per capita in the world.

More likely the reason is that the people don't know that murder is wrong.

This is pure assumption of course, but assuming this ludicrous claim was true, do you think it's a good idea to make it easy for such people to have guns?

And I believe many of these mass shootings are arranged by government so that they can have an excuse to take guns from the people so that they would have it easier to oppress them.

Oh dear.

For example this Uvalde shooting, I believe it was arranged for political reasons, because the police acted as they would wanted to have the people dead.

Unevidenced paranoia is not a very compelling argument. As has been explained multiple other western democracies have introduced strict laws on firearm ownership, and gun violence has been reduced, and is massively lower than in the US, where they have very lax laws.

 

[Sheldon]

If there was no proof of rape, the man was to be put to death if the girl is engaged. He commited adultery.
If she was not engaged, and the father of the girl approved, they would marry. (Deuteronomy 22:23-29)

If the father disapproves of the marriage, the man was to pay a price, but he would not get the girl. (Exodus 22:16, 17)

And you don't find that morally repugnant? A woman or girl being forced to marry their rapist?

 

[Sheldon]

Wow. Unbelievable that a man whom you know would do that.

In the majority of sexual assaults and rapes, the victim knows the rapist.

THIS site shows that this is true in 80% of rapes.

Another citation and it's two thirds.

"Most sexual assaults and rapes are committed by someone the victim knows. Among victims aged 18 to 29, two-thirds had a prior relationship with the offender."

From the US again

"34% of people who sexually abuse a child are family members"

 

[Twilight Hue]

Absolutely, that's what it takes to be in the public service protection sector. I say that as a military veteran. A lot of cops are also ex military (not all but enough). If you aren't willing to die, or take that chance, don't become a police officer or join the military.

Exactly. Their job is to run straight at danger and deal with it.

Imagine if Ukraine didn't engage the Russians.

Like the military, police work isn't a glee club.

 

[stvdv]

don't mind discussing spiritual things at all.
"Go away Satan" is a good place to start.

Indeed a very good start
If we could just say NO to all our vices like Jesus did, the world would change for the better in no time.

AND

We only have a short life
Better think of God all the time
"Go away Satan" don't waste my time

I don't know, like I know 1+1=2, that Jesus was perfect at birth, fully Self Realized. It's hearsay only what I know, not my own knowing

But Jesus was born by God's Will, not by sexual desire, hence He seems to me pretty much karma free...hence perfect

Only very few come that way into the earth, so Jesus was really special indeed

 

[stvdv]

Not following your reasoning here @stvdv.
What's the difference between a child born from sex between a married man and woman, prostitution, an "affair", or rape?

Oh, that's a huge difference. In India they still know this difference. The impact of our thoughts on what kind of child will come to the parents. A pure mind attracts a pure soul. But also the woman will stay far away from anxiety and other harmful emotions for the "child", something they totally disregard in the West.

I'm not surprised so many kids have ADHD nowadays, knowing that so many women also work in stressful environments, when expecting

A man with demonic mind, actions, as in raping women, won't charm a pure soul to choose them, a little demon might love this environment though.

Of course their might be exceptions, but this is in short the general idea. I'm not an expert, I just know that the state of mind has impact

 

[stvdv]

As long as there is proof of rape, whether the girl was engaged or not, the rapist was to be put to death.

If there was no proof of rape, the man was to be put to death if the girl is engaged. He commited adultery.
If she was not engaged, and the father of the girl approved, they would marry. (Deuteronomy 22:23-29)

If the father disapproves of the marriage, the man was to pay a price, but he would not get the girl. (Exodus 22:16, 17)

Thank you, I didn't know this
I like these laws, seem quite fair

At least it would eliminate all serial rapists, and solve over crowded jails and lots of other problems

IF we had this law in the West THEN I am sure many rapists would think twice. Also less divorces

Do you know if Jesus would approve this specific Law, as it does involve killing the rapists instead of forgiving?

And Muhammad?
And Bahaullah?

 

[nPeace]

Oh, that's a huge difference. In India they still know this difference. The impact of our thoughts on what kind of child will come to the parents. A pure mind attracts a pure soul. But also the woman will stay far away from anxiety and other harmful emotions for the "child", something they totally disregard in the West.

I'm not surprised so many kids have ADHD nowadays, knowing that so many women also work in stressful environments, when expecting

A man with demonic mind, actions, as in raping women, won't charm a pure soul to choose them, a little demon might love this environment though.

Of course their might be exceptions, but this is in short the general idea. I'm not an expert, I just know that the state of mind has impact

Still not following the reasoning.
Some people rape out of wrong influences, and are sorry after.

Some perverted God haters, of all vile manner of animalistic, demonic thinking have children out of wedlock - not rape... and are glad about disobeying God.

Why is the perverted God hater's child more pure than a child born to the desperate youth?

 

[nPeace]

Thank you, I didn't know this
I like these laws, seem quite fair

At least it would eliminate all serial rapists, and solve over crowded jails and lots of other problems

IF we had this law in the West THEN I am sure many rapists would think twice. Also less divorces

Do you know if Jesus would approve this specific Law, as it does involve killing the rapists instead of forgiving?

And Muhammad?
And Bahaullah?

First, I am glad to see you understood that.
Some Atheists tend to read their thought into what is written, and get something totally different from what is written.

I'm glad to know that at least you saw that nowhere does the text say the girl is forced to marry her rapist, as the man was not proved to have raped the girl, as in the case in the previous verses.

Would Jesus have approve this specific Law?
Yes. He did.
Jesus himself said, ". . .the One who sent me is true, and the very things I heard from him I am speaking in the world.” (John 8:26) ". . .the One who sent me is with me; he did not abandon me to myself, because I always do the things pleasing to him.” (John 8:29) "I speak the things I have seen while with my Father, but you do the things you have heard from your father.” (John 8:38)
(John 12:49, 50) 49 For I have not spoken of my own initiative, but the Father who sent me has himself given me a commandment about what to say and what to speak. 50 And I know that his commandment means everlasting life. So whatever I speak, I speak just as the Father has told me.”

When Jesus was with the Father, before being sent to earth, that law applied to the Nation of Israel.
The Nation of Israel was under God's rule, and obeyed the laws of that rule. The Israelites were under no other rule. They were a nation under God.

That changed. When Jesus arrived on earth, God's rule over his people was not in operation.
Hence Jesus's words . . .“Pay back, therefore, Caesar’s things to Caesar, but God’s things to God.” (Matthew 22:21)

They were... and still are, under the rule of the governments of the nations. Read Romans 13:1-10
Thus, God's people leave justice in the hands of the ones who are allowed to "express wrath against the one practicing what is bad".

They await the time when they will be under God's rule, and no other rulership. Daniel 2:44-45; Isaiah 9:6-7; Matthew 6:10

Then, true justice will be rendered.
Since all the wicked will be removed though, there will be no rapists (Psalms 37:9-11). Selfishness, jealousy and hatred, will be all gone, because mankind will have reached perfection (Revelation 21:3-4) - complete with God... fully connected.

 

[YoursTrue]

Thank you for the link in pm. What a horror in those years. Although nowadays it might be not much better

Very clear that fornication is a "no go". God will give you a "not so nice" surprise one day. And I think that this still applies, otherwise life would not be fair. ...

Especially is there a judgment for people and religions that claim to be Christian but allow fornication as if it's just another way of life.

 

[YoursTrue]

And you don't find that morally repugnant? A woman or girl being forced to marry their rapist?

I'll bring one thing to your attention. The law of Moses is not like the U.S. Constitution and Supreme Court. OK, I said one thing -- but this is important, too -- there were no jails in the days of Israel from Moses to the Roman invasion.

Fear comes from the unknown. This is in everyone's case. Training is what is badly needed. Training is needed across the entire United States. So many bad situations could be avoided if only officers knew how.

Equipped with body armor and having the training to handle that situation, there is very little fear. Just go in and get the job done.

There are professionals who can teach others exactly what to do. Why isn't it being done? Such training might weed out the bad police people as well. It's a Win Win!!

What else could be done to find potential shooters in order to prevent and help people? Isn't it time society works on the real problems? Problems never go away until they are solved. Yes, there is much that can be done, however it does take work. How many more will be hurt when the real problems continue to be ignored??

Blame is one of the petty things mankind holds so dear. Let's forget blame and focus on solving the real problems. So much more will get done that way.

How about this: The USA has military people all over the world. Would it really be so hard to have 2 well trained, well armed soldiers in every school. A shooter might think twice knowing there will be more than helpless children to confront. If the USA can have people all over the world, how about taking care of children at home first?

My point is that the USA has a diverse, intelligent culture. Instead of valuing blame, let's all put our heads together and solve the problems.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

Fear is reasonable when someone believes he will be hurt. Also, death is the last obstacle that the Bible says will be removed. The big thing is death. I was born on this earth. I am interested in this earth. I would like to keep living, but I know death is ahead of me all the time.