Do You Agree?

[Bird123]

The idea of hell-fire has been misinterpreted to men's disadvantage since it has distorted the truth about God, life and death. The Bible explains that when a person dies he feels and thinks nothing. Since the Bible speaks about a resurrection of the dead, when a person is brought back to life he again thinks and feels.

Why would you think a Being as Intelligent to create all this would allow his child to just die?? Does that really add up for you???

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[Bird123]

Can you lease explain again (maybe I missed it) what is "unconditional love."

Unconditional Love always does what is best for the other. God loves you without conditions. God loves you regardless of any choices you might make. Unconditional Love is a selfless Love.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[Bird123]

Let's see how clear this is to you, if possible: if you knew your adult child was a thief, stole whatever he could from you and others, would you give him shelter in your home?

How can you fix another person running away from them???

You also assume there is something in my home worth stealing. Aren't the best things in a home Spiritual in nature. Aren't those Spiritual things the only things one remembers in the long run?

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[YoursTrue]

You do not Understand. WE are all learning. Unconditional Love is not an easy thing to do. There is lots to learn before one understands what the best choices really are. When one understands all sides, Intelligence will make the Best choices. All the others choices will no longer be viable choices one could make.

God is already at that Higher Level. Mankind is walking that way but it seem to me to be ever so slowly. That's OK!! There is no time limit of learning.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

have a nice day. I usually don't deal with soothsayers that have all the answers or think they know...bye for now. Maybe later...

 

[Sheldon]

Even if they have more guns, it is not the reason for the violence.

Straw man fallacy, but yes the more easily guns are available the more gun violence and murder will result, this was again manifest in the evidence I posted, which you have again ignored.

Guns don't act on their own. It is the people who kill and those who are willing to kill, can do it with illegal guns as well.

All violence among humans requires humans, it is beyond absurd to suggest gun violence and murder has nothing to do with guns. Again the objective evidence I posted shows that gun violence in the US is vastly higher than in multiple other countries with strict gun laws, as is private gun ownership in the US of course, which is now the highest per capita in the world. Another fact you seem determined to ignore.

people should actually think, what makes US people many times more murderous than other nations.

The ubiquitous supply of guns? The fact it has an overwhelming number of theists?

Hmm....daddy vs chips...

Banning guns is not a good solution for the rot in the mind of the people.

Really? So you think having the largest number of privately owned guns in the world, among what you claim are "people many times more murderous than other nations." is a not the root cause of one of the highest levels of gun violence and murder in the world? Really?

 

[Sheldon]

When mankind values so many petty things it's easy for them to create their image of God with Hell, Condemning, Judging, Blaming, Punishing, Anger, Wrath, Intimidating, Coercing, Ruling, Controlling, Creating a We against They and so much more. In reality, mankind is only looking at themselves, blind to see what actually exists.

Any Being capable of creating all this has to be very smart. God is at a Higher Level, beyond all those petty things mankind holds so dear.

Mankind's view of God proves their holy book does not come from God. There is Genius in God's system and way. It spans far beyond what I have seen in any holy book.

Has religion convinced you that this world is a Mess?? When you look at this world and see a Masterpiece, then I will know you at least have some really Understanding of what everything is really all about.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

There is no objective evidence this world or anything else was "created".

 

[Sheldon]

abortion is removal of a living fetus, causing it to die. Upon thinking about this, there is quarrel about legislation going on in the U.S. about this and so I'm wondering also about this conversation -- it's considered a crime to kill a newly born infant.

A newly born infant is not part of a woman's body though.

 

[Sheldon]

Because I think it would tell a lot about why it happened. But, as said before, it is not the only issue, the other significant matter is who gave the orders for the police to basically protect the shooter and the massacre.

You still haven't addressed my link, that showed the manufacturer thorough that outlet offered credit, and used adverts that appealed specifically to teenagers.

 

[Sheldon]

God loves you without conditions

Which deity is this?

You have heard of the ten commandments?

That's what I see, it's very clear...

 

[YoursTrue]

A newly born infant is not part of a woman's body though.

So the point is if a fetus is aborted and is still alive...Babies Born Alive After Abortion Can be Left to Die in 16 States - LifeNews.com

 

[joelr]

I feel sorry for the police. If they shot at the horrible perpetrator and by accident shot a few kids, I have a feeling the police would be sued or blamed. It's an awful, awful situation.

It is awful. But they had to get people in there, get eyes on the gunman and fire on him. Once there were several officers they had to go in. It turns out he was hiding in a closet so I think they were able to get him without any return fire. I'm not sure but that will come out and if so it's going to make it much worse. Because if that is the case 2 officers could have gone in with pistols and caught him exiting the closet.

Now a woman who went in and pulled her kids out of class in a different building after escaping the police detaining her, is being harassed by the police. This is bad.

 

[joelr]

Yes. If they shot a child, they would be blamed too... for not waiting, and using good judgment. I just saw that in a police shooting.
If they delay, they get blamed for not shooting.
They can't win... no matter what they do.

They stood around for over 1 hour. The shooter was hiding in a closet. Easy target. If he was on the floor near children and using them for cover then the police would have to retreat. But at least they tried.
If you had a call from that classroom and it was your child would you want the police to at least make an attempt? Several people needed medical attention. Some of them died because of the delay?

 

[joelr]

That's not what I read, or saw in the video.

Well here you go

They waited 77 minutes. When the shield arrived rated for rifle fire they still took 30 min according to the report.

In other words, they didn't know the outcome, but regardless of how bloody and deadly it could get, give no consideration to those things?

It was bloody and deadly already. Kids lying around murdered and others with grave injuries. The rest were in danger of death at any second. They needed to enter the room. If they had no shot they would leave the room or take a bullet. Yes it was time for that. Save the lives of the children.

Do you know why they did not "go right away"?
I don't mean from guessing. I mean according to the facts.

Because they were scared of facing an AR47 rifle. But they knew there were injured children in the room and calling from cell phones.

...but you just said... "he could open fire at will".
I don't understand then, how you now say ... "The reason people hold back in hostage situations is so none of the hostages gets killed. This was different."

How is it different, then?

Once the perp starts killing hostages it's go time. The reason you hold back before anyone is killed is because the shooter may just want an escape without any death. This was an active shooter. We don't yet know why he didn't kill the remaining children. They may have been covered in exploded people. That's what a close range assault rifle like that does.

 

[joelr]

In him, or the children? How do you know?

Because he came out of a closet when the police finally entered. If he was holding children as body shields they would not have fired and exited the room. They would also probably have taken some hits. But it would be intel and might stop him from killing more. Then you go to plan B. They would have to use shields and flash bangs and physically get to him. A stack of shields with men would work. But he went in a closet. So at any time a few cops could have gone in and picked him off as he tried to exit the closet.

A lady ran in the school unarmed to get her kids out. Different room but she didn't care about her safety.

 

[Sheldon]

So the point is if a fetus is aborted and is still alive...Babies Born Alive After Abortion Can be Left to Die in 16 States - LifeNews.com

No, the point is that a blastocyst or developing foetus is part of a woman's body, a sentient woman who can experience physical and emotional suffering. Thus your claim likening abortion to killing a newly born infant is extremely disingenuous. The vast majority of abortions are short term, and involve a blastocyst or zygote, a clump of insentient cells. Late term abortions are rare, and generally performed out of medical necessity. Implying they're the norm is again extremely misleading.

 

[Sheldon]

"Uvalde officer asked permission to shoot gunman outside school but got no answer, report finds"

"The report by the Advanced Law Enforcement Rapid Response Training Center says authorities missed other opportunities to stop the gunman before he killed 19 students and two teachers in Robb Elementary."

"Editor's note: A Texas House committee investigating the Uvalde shooting issued a report on July 17 that concluded the Uvalde police officer did not see the gunman outside Robb Elementary but instead had spotted a school coach.
An Uvalde police officer asked for a supervisor’s permission to shoot the gunman who would soon kill 21 people at Robb Elementary School in May before he entered the building, but the supervisor did not hear the request or responded too late, according to a report released Wednesday evaluating the law enforcement response to the shooting.
The request from the Uvalde officer, who was outside the school, about a minute before the gunman entered Robb Elementary had not been previously reported. The officer was reported to have been afraid of possibly shooting children while attempting to take out the gunman, according to the report released Wednesday by the Advanced Law Enforcement Rapid Response Training Center, located at Texas State University in San Marcos.
The report provides a host of new details about the May 24 shooting, including several missed opportunities to engage or stop the gunman before he entered the school."

 

[nPeace]

They stood around for over 1 hour.

I'm not sure where you got that from, but I suggest you put it in the category it belongs - fake news.

The shooter was hiding in a closet. Easy target. If he was on the floor near children and using them for cover then the police would have to retreat. But at least they tried.

So they knew he was hiding in the closet before they entered the classroom, or after.... or did they have Superman's powers - X-Ray Vision?

If you had a call from that classroom and it was your child would you want the police to at least make an attempt? Several people needed medical attention. Some of them died because of the delay?

I would want the police to be safe. After all, they are human too, with families. Some have small children.
Why would I be selfish, and think only of me, and what belongs to me?

A lot of heros, lie in the dirt today. Some of them aren't even remembered.
If the police can safely rescue my child, that's appreciated. It's not their fault, my child is in a classroom with a blood-thirsty animal.

What if the murderer had shot everyone in the room, and then blew his brains out, would I be crying, saying... "Oh. The police should have?" Or would I be complaining about guns?
Like most people do, I might find something else to complain about, and blame.

Well here you go

There is a better video, on this page, to see the timeline.

These cops went after the gunman, and engaged him.
They were fired upon, and retreated to safety.

20 minutes later,, heavily armed officers arrive with shields.

They waited 45 minutes max.
Why?
According to body camera video, officers spent the next 46 minutes amassing additional protection, including a fourth ballistic shield and tear gas canisters. They discussed various ways to enter the classroom, including using outside windows, to kill the gunman.

Paramedics even begin treating the wounded.
So, getting protective gear, and working out an effective strategy for a successful "hit", is foolish, in your opinion?

They waited 77 minutes. When the shield arrived rated for rifle fire they still took 30 min according to the report.

Ah. Thank you for this video. Very information.

So they had shields, but those shields were useless right? They might as well have laid them aside and gone in right?
US marshals provided one - the only shield that could offer them protection against any return fire from the gunman.
Which means, the waiting was cut down to 30 minutes from 45 minutes, if one considers the cops were not equipped to take on the gunman, in a shootout, in an enclosed area.

If that isn't something you can see in mind, take a look at this.

Notice, the officers could not get a clear shot, especially with the gunman returning fire.

During the 30 minute wait, I don't know if they were trying to get another shield, or what. I do not have all the facts.
Edit @joelr perhaps that was the time They discussed various ways to enter the classroom, including using outside windows, to kill the gunman.

However, I think when judging a matter, it's important to take all factors into consideration.

However, they went in, once they had, at least one "rifle rated shield" - some form of protection, from possibly leaving that school in a body bag. Or ending up on a stretcher, bleeding out.

From what I know, and have seen, police too, fear for their life. They are human. Not machines.
Police Officers Fear More For Their Safety, Pew Survey Finds
Eighty-six percent of American police officers say their job is getting harder since the high-profile incidents involving police and African-Americans and the protests that have followed. That statistic comes from a national survey of police officers that was just released by the Pew Research Center.

Perhaps the US will take some of the money they are spending in arms, and get robots which they can control like a drone, and use in situations like this. AI may not be necessary with the technology they already have.

This highlights though, indeed, the worsening conditions in the world, and the changing attitudes foretold to be here.

I like the fact that your video mentioned some leading and contributing factors, and the most pertinent factor of all of them - failed government.
He is right.
We need good government. I only know of one.

It was bloody and deadly already. Kids lying around murdered and others with grave injuries. The rest were in danger of death at any second. They needed to enter the room. If they had no shot they would leave the room or take a bullet. Yes it was time for that. Save the lives of the children.

So you think its okay if some "kids" dad took a bullet... to the head, or heart, and died? No problem right? At least he tried?

Because they were scared of facing an AR47 rifle. But they knew there were injured children in the room and calling from cell phones.

Without protection against an AR rifle's bullet, I think any officer would be scare.
All cops are scared when they even suspect the person they confront, may possess a gun.
After all, this is not some video game they are in, where they can get unlimited lives, you know.

Once the perp starts killing hostages it's go time.

It's go time, from the time you arm yourself and threaten anyone.

The reason you hold back before anyone is killed is because the shooter may just want an escape without any death.

In the video I linked, the cop took out the hostage taker, before he killed anyone.

This was an active shooter. We don't yet know why he didn't kill the remaining children. They may have been covered in exploded people. That's what a close range assault rifle like that does.

There is no guarantee those children being transported to hospital would have survived. You know this right.
The trauma left... even if they survived, may have been worst than death.
With their injuries, maybe it's better, they are at rest.

They can rest in peace, until they awake in a new world, where things like these will never exist, and "the former things will not be called to mind, Nor will they come up into the heart." (Isaiah 65:17)

 

[nPeace]

Because he came out of a closet when the police finally entered. If he was holding children as body shields they would not have fired and exited the room. They would also probably have taken some hits. But it would be intel and might stop him from killing more. Then you go to plan B. They would have to use shields and flash bangs and physically get to him. A stack of shields with men would work. But he went in a closet. So at any time a few cops could have gone in and picked him off as he tried to exit the closet.

Maybe that's what made it easy for the cops, and why none were injured.
He might have went into the closet after the demons left him, and he realized what a horrible thing he had done... like Judas.
(Matthew 27:3-5) 3 Then Judas, his betrayer, seeing that Jesus had been condemned, felt remorse and brought the 30 pieces of silver back to the chief priests and elders, 4 saying: “I sinned when I betrayed innocent blood.” They said: “What is that to us? You must see to it!” 5 So he threw the silver pieces into the temple and departed. Then he went off and hanged himself.

No one knew he was in the closet though.
He wasn't in the closet when he fired on the cops.

A lady ran in the school unarmed to get her kids out. Different room but she didn't care about her safety.

She wouldn't have cared if she had ran into the room the gunman was in either. She would have been too dead to care.

 

[YoursTrue]

It is awful. But they had to get people in there, get eyes on the gunman and fire on him. Once there were several officers they had to go in. It turns out he was hiding in a closet so I think they were able to get him without any return fire. I'm not sure but that will come out and if so it's going to make it much worse. Because if that is the case 2 officers could have gone in with pistols and caught him exiting the closet.

Now a woman who went in and pulled her kids out of class in a different building after escaping the police detaining her, is being harassed by the police. This is bad.

What if? I don't know about guns. But what if the shooter had an automatic something that fired lots of rounds and when the police entered he managed to shoot every one of them plus more kids? how terrible the whole thing is and that's not the only horrible situation with mankind today.

 

[YoursTrue]

No, the point is that a blastocyst or developing foetus is part of a woman's body, a sentient woman who can experience physical and emotional suffering. Thus your claim likening abortion to killing a newly born infant is extremely disingenuous. The vast majority of abortions are short term, and involve a blastocyst or zygote, a clump of insentient cells. Late term abortions are rare, and generally performed out of medical necessity. Implying they're the norm is again extremely misleading.

ok back to abortion for a minute. So are you saying it's ok to kill a fetus after taken out by choice of a mother's womb while it's still alive? Remember -- it's legal in many states to kill a living fetus after exiting the womb. Some of them are alive and breathing. Not sure of the age. So how do you figure this? Not to change the subject but wondering how you compare things. Maybe there's a forum dedicated to abortions, not sure, so don't want to distract from this forum, but yes, opinions are varied on many different subjects which is why there is so much bickering and tension in politics as well. Sad. But then that's the way it is in most places.