It depends on where and when you were raised. If you were born in the southern US in the early 1800's, your conscience would probably say that slavery was morally right.
-
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:- Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
- Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
- Access to private conversations with other members.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
Do You Believe In God, Why? Don't You Believe In God, Why?
- Thread starter frbnsn
- Start date
It depends on where and when you were raised. If you were born in the southern US in the early 1800's, your conscience would probably say that slavery was morally right.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Yes, you could.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
I do not know if Matthew is accurate, but I do not need Matthew to know what He said is true. All I need is common sense.
janesix
Active Member
I suspect you are an atheist. You don't want to take responsibility for your actions.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
No, I only take their claims seriously if they pass the tests:
Proofs of Prophethood
Bahá’u’lláh asked no one to accept His statements and His tokens blindly. On the contrary, He put in the very forefront of His teachings emphatic warnings against blind acceptance of authority, and urged all to open their eyes and ears, and use their own judgement, independently and fearlessly, in order to ascertain the truth. He enjoined the fullest investigation and never concealed Himself, offering, as the supreme proofs of His Prophethood, His words and works and their effects in transforming the lives and characters of men. The tests He proposed are the same as those laid down by His great predecessors. Moses said:—
When a prophet speaketh in the name of the Lord, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the Lord hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.—Deut. xviii, 22.
Christ put His test just as plainly, and appealed to it in proof of His own claim. He said:—
Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. … Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.—Matt. vii, 15–17, 20
In the chapters that follow, we shall endeavor to show whether Bahá’u’lláh’s claim to Prophethood stands or falls by application of these tests: whether the things that He had spoken have followed and come to pass, and whether His fruits have been good or evil; in other words, whether His prophecies are being fulfilled and His ordinances established, and whether His lifework has contributed to the education and upliftment of humanity and the betterment of morals, or the contrary.”
Proofs of Prophethood, Bahá’u’lláh and the New Era, pp. 8-9
How is a claim to be a messenger of God evidence? People claim all sorts of things all the time.Except that magical pixies don't have any Messengers as evidence that they exist.
From link in post #370:
Sure there are motives. He may sincerely believe it. He may enjoy the attention. He may be trying to make a buck on the idea.
People making claims to speak for God, or to God, or to be God are a dime a dozen.
What about the faeries of Findhorn?
＊【 Real fairies: proofs that prove their existence 】＊
Magical Findhorn in Scotland - Mystic Heart Song
No matter what the claim, the True Believers find convincing evidence supporting it.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Of course the claims are not evidence. There are claims and then there is evidence that supports those claims.
Questions for knowledgeable Bahai / followers of Baha'u'llah
Yes, I am an atheist/ignostic/apatheist.
But I *do* take responsibility for my actions. Theists are the ones that don't: all they need to do is ask for forgiveness (honestly) and they are released from responsibility. As an atheist, I have no such out. If I do wrong, I find a way to make up for it and not do it again.
And I don't do wrong because I respect other people, not because I fear the wrath of some invisible deity. I don't expect benefits for doing the right thing. I don't expect punishment for doing the wrong thing. But I try to always do the right thing as I understand it because it is the right thing to do.
rational experiences
Veteran Member
We said as a human O God being the origin fall into hell conditions created Satan.......burning hell.
No God.
We said that claim consciously.
O God earth mass energy is stone. Evolved God returned. A new language.
Is not original theme highest God thought about history... Before big bang converted mass.
God he quotes memory created energy as God fell became Satan hell
So God did not exist anymore as eternal angel.
A memory.
Then Satan O angels in spatial hell either stopped self consuming. Became God stone bodies. Or remained as suns.
Observation two body variations.
Space however one body.
Self consuming is state energy. Presence of.
Unless stopped. A taught cosmic law statement. You cannot hold energy unless you cool it.
Science thought upon that law. Knew.
To hold energy converting you had to stop it. By cooling.
As energy O God the stone no longer was Satan. It was holy. Highest new form of god stone.
God stone now the highest God.
Memory however discussed God originally. God today is not the origin God.
All humans as babies use adult memories. I was born. My father never born.
My father told me. I had been sacrificed irradiated gas burnt harmed.
Knowing my father real advice.
Given correct memory advice.
Ancient human memory changed. Information changed. Mind changed. Language changed. Memories lost. Words stories not taught correctly.
Info quotes in a future when the brain mind healed it will be told correctly.
Bible prophecy.
Our stories.
What conscious memory is.
No God.
We said that claim consciously.
O God earth mass energy is stone. Evolved God returned. A new language.
Is not original theme highest God thought about history... Before big bang converted mass.
God he quotes memory created energy as God fell became Satan hell
So God did not exist anymore as eternal angel.
A memory.
Then Satan O angels in spatial hell either stopped self consuming. Became God stone bodies. Or remained as suns.
Observation two body variations.
Space however one body.
Self consuming is state energy. Presence of.
Unless stopped. A taught cosmic law statement. You cannot hold energy unless you cool it.
Science thought upon that law. Knew.
To hold energy converting you had to stop it. By cooling.
As energy O God the stone no longer was Satan. It was holy. Highest new form of god stone.
God stone now the highest God.
Memory however discussed God originally. God today is not the origin God.
All humans as babies use adult memories. I was born. My father never born.
My father told me. I had been sacrificed irradiated gas burnt harmed.
Knowing my father real advice.
Given correct memory advice.
Ancient human memory changed. Information changed. Mind changed. Language changed. Memories lost. Words stories not taught correctly.
Info quotes in a future when the brain mind healed it will be told correctly.
Bible prophecy.
Our stories.
What conscious memory is.
In that case, the best prophets are the scientists. No other group of people comes close in making predictions that turn out to be true.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
We can determine if a Messenger had any such motives by investigating His life.
Substitute "God" for pixies. How would that claim be any different than the above?
Logic? Where is the "logic" in your statement?
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Do scientists always make predictions that turn out to be true?
Besides, there is a whole lot more involved in being a true prophet.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
You could substitute, but there is no evidence that pixies exist whereas there is evidence that God exists...
Therein lies the difference and the logic.
Do they always? No. But the level of specificity and accuracy is *far* beyond anything any religious leader can claim.
For example, there is a prediction that there will be a total eclipse of the sun on April 8, 2024. The path of the eclipse is known, the duration is known, At any point on the path, the times when it starts and stops are known to the minute.
Give *any* prophecy from any religious figure that comes anywhere close to that.
Instead, what you will find is generalities that can be interpreted multiple ways, are true for most periods of time, and/or are common knowledge. That isn't a prophecy; it is a smokescreen.
I would say that the quality of the evidence is the same for both.
rational experiences
Veteran Member
Observation O science is first.
Converting machine sciences our destruction.
O maths known to scientist o first thoughts not acted upon dies did not make a scientist supreme in wisdom.
Stephen haw King that proof king irradiated mind conscious state.
I can argue non science knowledge the same as a scientist knowing science. Self consciousness first origins natural. Highest aware state. Spiritual. Made the choice force God to change.
Why arguing science gets you nowhere as science was spiritually chosen to force change. It was spiritually wanted. Father advised me.
What is this evidence?
Why do the gods of the Bible do, command or endorse so many things we'd condemn as monstrous if they were done by someone today? Where's the morality -- or is morality, by definition, anything God does?
If that's the case the evidence certainly seems to come to a lot of different conclusions. It's incoherent.
Neanderthal shamans, for example.