Do you believe the Bible is God's word?

[URAVIP2ME]

I understand that this is your belief as a Jehovah's Witness, but stating it as if it were true doesn't make it so. Christians who disagree with you do the same.

Yes, real people named and real places named is what Jehovah's Witnesses find in the Bible - www.jw.org
Who are the ones who disagree

 

[jimb]

Yes, real people named and real places named is what Jehovah's Witnesses find in the Bible - www.jw.org
Who are the ones who disagree

Those who disagree with JW doctrine are those who read and understand the Bible correctly.

 

[Trailblazer]

Because of inherited adamic sin from fallen-father Adam we can't stop sinning is why God sent pre-human sinless heavenly Jesus to Earth for us

God gave everyone free will so everyone can stop sinning if they want to. They just don't want to.

Jesus died for our sins but that was not a free pass to keep sinning. Jesus said to go and sin no more.

Jesus would be absolutely appalled with the sexual conduct of modern-day Christians because it is appalling.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

Yes, real people named and real places named is what Jehovah's Witnesses find in the Bible - www.jw.org
Who are the ones who disagree

I assume that you believe that by referencing your JW source that it somehow validates your beliefs and makes them true.

 

[Trailblazer]

Those who disagree with JW doctrine are those who read and understand the Bible correctly.

Those who disagree with the Trinity doctrine about who Jesus was are those who read and understand the Bible correctly.
That is not to say that I believe the JW doctrine is correct on all matters, but they are correct in saying Jesus is not God.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

Jesus would be absolutely appalled with the sexual conduct of modern-day Christians because it is appalling.

I don't believe that Christians are any more moral than anyone, despite some apparently believing they are or even claiming to be. They can be decent, morally upright people if they want to be, or they can lie, steal, cheat, curse, get drunk, take drugs, lust, commit adultery, divorce and remarry, and be promiscuous before marriage, just like non-Christians. There are many Christians who have committed crimes, including heinous crimes such as murder. I understand that some disgruntled Christians who will use the No True Scotsman fallacy to condemn other Christians, but I don't think it's a valid argument.

In fact, I think it's a pathetic excuse. I don't accept their "sinner saved by grace" excuse either. In my experience, the majority of the Christians I know are hypocritical because they arrogantly condemn other people's moral flaws while intentionally ignoring their own. In my opinion, if these Christians were more concerned with the plank in their own eye, they would have less time to focus on the speck of dust in someone else's' eye. They reap what they sow.

 

[Audie]

How can you say sin is just a human invention for social control??? It seems so obvious that sin is a real thing impacting our lives and world in such harmful and negative ways. I know you’ve experienced first hand the harm and evil of human violence and sin. Why should God’s concern by petty if we were created to share in His love, beauty and joy? Of course He’s be concerned.

The scriptures say nothing about Hod inflicting torture. Humans were responsible for that aspect.
Jesus deliberately and voluntarily went to the cross to provide victory over sin for anyone and an eternal life of freedom from sin and its destructive consequences.
That is the opposite of control… FREEDOM.

How can you say sin is just a human invention for social control??? It seems so obvious that sin is a real thing impacting our lives and world in such harmful and negative ways. I know you’ve experienced first hand the harm and evil of human violence and sin. Why should God’s concern by petty if we were created to share in His love, beauty and joy? Of course He’s be concerned.

The scriptures say nothing about Hod inflicting torture. Humans were responsible for that aspect.
Jesus deliberately and voluntarily went to the cross to provide victory over sin for anyone and an eternal life of freedom from sin and its destructive consequences.
That is the opposite of control… FREEDOM.

How? By seeing what your bible says.
NT lists 124 sins. ( transgressions against “god”)
a being invented by, yes, people.

And, yes, I was beaten raped, and almost died in the hospital.

Rape is not listed as a sin,
Now, if I cut my hair!! That’s a sin. “ God “
passed a law. He will be ticked off.

You SURE you cannot see it’s nonsense?

in the story god incires people to torture a part of himself
to pay himself for being offended by things like me cutting my
hair. Read the list; it’s a hoot*

And you say this absurd story
provides freedom. When? After you’re dead?

You sure you’ve thought this through?

*watch for pettiness and social control.


And mysogeny

 

[John53]

I don't believe that Christians are any more moral than anyone, despite some apparently believing they are or even claiming to be. They can be decent, morally upright people if they want to be, or they can lie, steal, cheat, curse, get drunk, take drugs, lust, commit adultery, divorce and remarry, and be promiscuous before marriage, just like non-Christians. There are many Christians who have committed crimes, including heinous crimes such as murder. I understand that some disgruntled Christians who will use the No True Scotsman fallacy to condemn other Christians, but I don't think it's a valid argument.

In fact, I think it's a pathetic excuse. I don't accept their "sinner saved by grace" excuse either. In my experience, the majority of the Christians I know are hypocritical because they arrogantly condemn other people's moral flaws while intentionally ignoring their own. In my opinion, if these Christians were more concerned with the plank in their own eye, they would have less time to focus on the speck of dust in someone else's' eye. They reap what they sow.

Like all people no matter what group you divide them in to, there are good and bad.

 

[InChrist]

How? By seeing what your bible says.
NT lists 124 sins. ( transgressions against “god”)
a being invented by, yes, people.

And, yes, I was beaten raped, and almost died in the hospital.

Rapevis not listed as a sin,
Now, if I cut my hair!! That’s a sin. “ God “ ;
passed a law. He will be ticked off.

You SURE you cannot see it’s nonsense?

in the story god incires people to torture a part of himself
to pay himself for being offended by things like me cutting my
hair. Read the list; it’s a hoot*

And you say this absurd story
provides freedom.

You sure you’ve thought this through?

*watch for pettiness and social control.


And mysogeny

Maybe you should try reading the scriptures again sometime and truly seek contextual clarity asking God to reveal to you understanding of the whole, larger picture, as well as the specifics of passages in with regard to …who, what, where, when, and why things were written.

 

[Audie]

Maybe you should try reading the scriptures again sometime and truly seek contextual clarity asking God to reveal to you understanding of the whole, larger picture, as well as the specifics of passages in with regard to …who, what, where, when, and why things were written

Right, sidestep the plain text.

124 sins.

but none of it means what it says.

This just keeps getting more ridiculous.

See if you can guess why this bonkers religion doesn’t get traction in China.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

Like all people no matter what group you divide them in to, there are good and bad.

That is correct, but I've met Christians who honestly believe that they are morally superior to non-Christians because they are supposedly forgiven for their "sins" against God. That was the point of my post to Trailblazer. In fact, I've had some tell me that while bragging about having "spiritual discernment."

 

[InChrist]

That is true, Jesus deliberately and voluntarily went to the cross to provide victory over sin, but how is that a 'victory over sin' if people still sin?

The Bible verse "go and sin no more" appears in John 8:11:

	John 8:11
Verse	"Neither do I condemn thee; go, and sin no more"

In this verse, Jesus tells a woman to "go and sin no more" after she is accused of adultery. Jesus intervenes in the scene to show his role as both judge and savior. He tells the woman's accusers that the one without sin should throw the first stone, and they leave. Jesus then tells the woman that he does not condemn her, and that she should "go and sin no more".

Jesus also told someone to "sin no more" in John 5:14, after healing an invalid by the Pool of Bethesda. Jesus found the man again and told him to stop sinning, or something worse might happen.

Christians are constantly sinning, such as when they have sex outside of wedlock. In fact, most of the men I have encountered on dating sites who have wanted me to have casual sex were Christians. One Christian man even said that he knew it was a sin but he couldn't help himself.

I don’t believe the scriptures indicate that complete victory over sin occurs until one leaves this physical world and enters eternity. In the meantime, a person’s walk with Christ and maturity in the faith is a lifetime process. I don’t do a lot of the sinful things I used to do and have no desire to anymore, but I definitely don’t claim to be sinless.


If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 1 John 1:8-9

 

[InChrist]

Right, sidestep the plain text.

124 sins.

but none of it means what it says.

This just keeps getting more ridiculous.

See if you can guess why this bonkers religion doesn’t get traction in China.

There are millions of Bible believers in China.

What’s behind Boom of Christianity in China?

The China Historical Christian Database tracks four centuries of Christian history in China.

www.bu.edu

 

[Audie]

There are millions of Bible believers in China.

What’s behind Boom of Christianity in China?

The China Historical Christian Database tracks four centuries of Christian history in China.

www.bu.edu

124 sins but none mean what they say.

 

[Audie]

There are millions of Bible believers in China.

What’s behind Boom of Christianity in China?

The China Historical Christian Database tracks four centuries of Christian history in China.

www.bu.edu

There is no growth taking place. Number is stable, around 1%.

You got any other fake news, like reports on the latest discovery of Noah’s ark?

 

[InChrist]

There is no growth taking place. Number is stable, around 1%.

How do you know that for certain, when much of the church in China is underground and Christian believers must often hide their faith?

 

[ChatwithGod]

The Bible is seen by many as a sacred text, inspired by God but written by human hands. It includes history, poetry, prophecy, and teaching. It's important to seek the spirit of love and justice in its teachings, as Jesus said in Matthew 22:39, "Love your neighbor as yourself."

 

[Trailblazer]

I don’t do a lot of the sinful things I used to do and have no desire to anymore, but I definitely don’t claim to be sinless.

If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 1 John 1:8-9

The Baháʼí Faith teaches that sin is disobedience to God and that sinning separates a person from God. Since nobody can ever be perfectly obedient to God in that sense we are all sinners. I do not think that God expects anyone to be sinless, and God will forgive our sins because God is the Ever-Forgiving.

Bahá'í Reference Library - Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, Pages 308-312

 

[blü 2]

Although, they did not know good and evil in an experiential sense, I don’t doubt they fully understood God’s one clear command. They chose to listen to and believe the serpent rather than their Creator who loved and cared for them. That was the sin. Their reaction afterwards shows they knew they did wrong.

At the time they ate the fruit they did not know good, because of God's action in denying them knowledge of good and evil. The very first Afterwards is a different thing, but at the time, at the instant of eating, they were still entirely innocent.

Only after that moment do their reactions suggest a knowledge of right and wrong.

By the way, do you agree that it's a Very Good Thing that humans have knowledge of right and wrong, and that Eve deserves due recognition as a heroine of mankind, albeit fictional?

Just the idea of you thinking God could snap His fingers and forgive sin shows that you don’t comprehend the gravity of sin, it’s implications or eternal justice.

But in your version, the NT (and later Trinity) God, apparently being unfamiliar with Ezekiel 18:20, is now happy to forgive sins, including Paul's "original Fall of Man" variety, never mentioned in the Tanakh. So the question isn't whether God can instantly forgive sins ─ [he] does ─ but why [he] demanded a revolting human sacrifice before [he] was prepared to act?

This is the part that no one has explained to me, and the part I'm inviting you to explain.

You may read the linked articles which explain “why”, Jesus (fully human/fully God) had to pay the penalty, if you like…

None of the five NT versions of Jesus was God, as I pointed out to you (eg here >Jesus Failed Right?<). The simply historical truth is that Jesus doesn't become God until as a result of the politics of the early church the Trinity doctrine is adopted in the 4th century CE.

“However, our sin against God is much worse than not being a perfect person. C.S. Lewis says, “Fallen man is not simply an imperfect creature who needs improvement: he is a rebel who must lay down his arms..”

Why Couldn't God Just Forgive Our Sins?

We just finished studying the book of Hebrews as a church where arguably the main point of the entire book can be boiled down to: Jesus is better. The author uses Melchizedek, Abraham, Moses, the Tabernacle, and more to make the point that Jesus is a truer and better version of what existed before.

gracechurchblog.org

No, that's just a reheating of Paul's version of the Garden story, and as you've seen, in the Tanakh's version of the Garden story there's no sin, no Fall, no death entering the world, no spiritual death, none of that at all. It simply isn't there.

The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not bear the guilt of the father, nor the father bear the guilt of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself. Ezekiel 18:20.​

Exactly.

So even if Adam and Eve had sinned in eating the fruit, which as I've pointed out to you was not possible, that couldn't have affected anyone who came after, starting with Cain and Abel.

Nevertheless, since Adam and Eve are the parents of the human race ...

Only in this particular folktale. It's plainly false as a statement about reality.

... we are all born with a fallen human nature and the tendency to sin.

We are all born with an evolved human nature and the tendency to seek to survive, to survive as a group by being gregarious, to breed, and in the case of gregarious critters such as humans, to rule, either in whole or in part.

 

[Audie]

How do you know that for certain, when much of the church in China is underground and Christian believers must often hide their faith?

Amusing that you don’t question your source that says what you like.


I live here. I won’t be getting my info on China from you.

Or from your bible that teaches nonsense
like “flood” and where my ancestors come from.