Do You Know Why You Don't Believe?

[Super Universe]

*Earth

We fit the earth well?

How about middle of the Pacific Ocean, about 10,000 feet down?

How about the Sahara? Antarctica?

How about when the earth went through it's last ice age or when earthquakes hit Iran and Mexico and the Indian Ocean?

How about when the earth experienced a world wide flooding?

We can adapt to many things but the earth is a dynamic thing and it will change regardless of the affect it has on us.

 

[Buttercup]

I guess you're not sure I exist either, huh, chimpy? Or are you making the assumption I do because the necklaces didn't come back to you marked "no such person; no such address"?

haha. Umm, the last time I checked, we HAVE communicated directly. And, I understand you perfectly each time. Well, as best you can understand a feral cat!

 

[Buttercup]

How about when the earth experienced a world wide flooding?

There is no proof of a world wide flood, SU....unless you're bringing the bible back into the discussion.

What is it you're trying to point out with these natural occurrences you are referencing?

 

[UnTheist]

We fit the earth well?

How about middle of the Pacific Ocean, about 10,000 feet down?

How about the Sahara? Antarctica?

How about when the earth went through it's last ice age or when earthquakes hit Iran and Mexico and the Indian Ocean?

How about when the earth experienced a world wide flooding?

We can adapt to many things but the earth is a dynamic thing and it will change regardless of the affect it has on us.

I don't feel like going through your past posts. Why are you talking about Humans not being able to be perfectly adapted to every environment and potential natural disaster on Earth? Is this somehow your argument for God?

 

[Super Universe]

There is no proof of a world wide flood, SU....unless you're bringing the bible back into the discussion.

What is it you're trying to point out with these natural occurrences you are referencing?

There is no proof of a worldwide flood? No, but then, what kind of proof would there be of it?

The point I'm trying to make is this, the earth changes, at times very dramatically. God does not send storms. God does not get angry, the earth changes because it has to in order to keep from becoming another dead planet like Mars.

These changes can cause terrible earthquakes (you haven't seen a thing yet).

 

[Super Universe]

I don't feel like going through your past posts. Why are you talking about Humans not being able to be perfectly adapted to every environment and potential natural disaster on Earth? Is this somehow your argument for God?

I'm talking about humans not being perfectly adapted to every environment because that's where responses have led. I didn't intend for the discussion to go this way.

Why am I talking about a natural disaster on the Earth? Because it's coming. The Earth is going to change.

Is this an argument for God? No.

 

[Buttercup]

There is no proof of a worldwide flood? No, but then, what kind of proof would there be of it?

There would be proof in sedimentary layers all around the world. There is evidence of regional floods but not a world wide flood.

The point I'm trying to make is this, the earth changes, at times very dramatically. God does not send storms. God does not get angry, the earth changes because it has to in order to keep from becoming another dead planet like Mars.

Very true....and an important issue to discuss although probably off topic here. I started a thread to discuss a partial part of the problem here:

http://www.religiousforums.com/foru...cs/58663-candidate-will-best-environment.html

 

[Super Universe]

There would be proof in sedimentary layers all around the world. There is evidence of regional floods but not a world wide flood.

Very true....and an important issue to discuss although probably off topic here. I started a thread to discuss a partial part of the problem here:

http://www.religiousforums.com/foru...cs/58663-candidate-will-best-environment.html

This sediment would come from where exactly?

 

[UnTheist]

The point I'm trying to make is this, the earth changes, at times very dramatically. God does not send storms. God does not get angry, the earth changes because it has to in order to keep from becoming another dead planet like Mars.

If by that you mean the Earth must use ways to keep the population down and maintain stability of the food chain, then I agree.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

We fit the universe well?

We fit our niche well enough to get by, yes.

We fit in a fraction of a percent of it well, the rest is deadly.

So what exactly were you going on about before, then?

Your current knowledge leads you to believe that it is highly unlikely that any god exists?

Then you must believe that it is more likely that no intelligence designed an almost perfect system, atoms in perfect balance, necessary physical laws in place, organization of planetary systems, and an order to it all?

And this unintelligent thing also created time for some reason. And life.

Nothing in the universe is "necessary" or "in perfect balance" unless you're looking at things from the point of view of what's required for us. If 99.9999999999999...% of the universe is, as you point out, immediately lethal to us, it doesn't seem like it's terribly "perfect" or "ordered", and what's "necessary" is almost always conspicuously absent.

When you look at things from that point of view, the universe doesn't seem so much "an almost perfect system" as much as one that's generally bad, except for a miniscule pocket of tolerable. The fact that our little niche exists is not evidence that the primary function of the universe is to supply that niche for us.

 

[rstrats]

Super Universe,

re: "You want me to prove Leprechauns to you?"

Although you didn’t address your post to anyone, I’m going to assume that it is intended for me even though I never asked you to prove leprechauns to me.

What I did ask was for you to demonstrate your asserted ability to consciously CHOOSE to believe things. I don’t think that it can be done. But if it can, I would really like to know how and that is why I asked you to show me that you can do it and to then explain your method. Because you have not done that, you apparently have decided that you are not able to consciously CHOOSE your beliefs, either.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

This sediment would come from where exactly?

From soil. From the surface of the planet. From dead organic material.

A sudden worldwide flood would significantly erode, i.e. wash away, a large quantity of soil. When this happens, the soil particles would become suspended in the worldwide ocean. Over time, some of this material (along with dead marine life)would settle to the bottom and form a fairly uniform layer of material... you can see this occurring in all the oceans of the world today.

Also, assuming the floodwaters receded through evaporation*, the soil still left in suspension (which would be considerable) would remain after the water itself was gone, leaving its own uniform layer... try Googling pictures of the Bonneville Salt Flats if you want an example of what this might look like.

When you look at a cross-section of soil from any place where there used to be a lake, sea or other body of water, there's a layer of marine sediment present. If the entire planet had been underwater, we'd expect to see a layer of marine sediment anywhere we cared to look... but we don't. We only find marine sediment where conventional geological theory says that there was a lake, sea, ocean or the like, and never anywhere else... and the marine sediment that we do find is only consistent for that ancient body of water; if all the sediment that is there came from one global body of water, it would all be similar... it's not.

*If you believe that the flood waters were pulled up through "windows in Heaven" or something like that, I can't help you... if some supernatural mechanism did collect all the water without vibration, I suppose it's conceivable that any suspended solids got taken with it, but this would only affect the thickness of the sedimentary layer, not its outright existence.

 

[doppelganger]

Reality changes your perception real quick.

But it's not reality until the perception changes. If it's foggy enough that I don't know how I ended up driving off the cliff and falling to my death, the fact remains that the reality never did change for me because my perception didn't.

You're confusing "usefulness" for "truth." It's an easy mistake to make. But it's still a mistake. Nobody has a solution to the problem of induction.

 

[Super Universe]

Super Universe,

re: "You want me to prove Leprechauns to you?"

Although you didn’t address your post to anyone, I’m going to assume that it is intended for me even though I never asked you to prove leprechauns to me.

What I did ask was for you to demonstrate your asserted ability to consciously CHOOSE to believe things. I don’t think that it can be done. But if it can, I would really like to know how and that is why I asked you to show me that you can do it and to then explain your method. Because you have not done that, you apparently have decided that you are not able to consciously CHOOSE your beliefs, either.

I consciously chose to believe that a certain football team was better than they are proving to be.

I consciously chose to believe that a frozen pizza would be good for dinner but it turned out to be quite tasteless.

I consciously chose to believe that a friend would come over and help me the other day because he said he would but he never showed up.

And, in my youth, I consciously chose to believe that God could not exist and then I changed my mind.

 

[Super Universe]

From soil. From the surface of the planet. From dead organic material.

A sudden worldwide flood would significantly erode, i.e. wash away, a large quantity of soil. When this happens, the soil particles would become suspended in the worldwide ocean. Over time, some of this material (along with dead marine life)would settle to the bottom and form a fairly uniform layer of material... you can see this occurring in all the oceans of the world today.

Also, assuming the floodwaters receded through evaporation*, the soil still left in suspension (which would be considerable) would remain after the water itself was gone, leaving its own uniform layer... try Googling pictures of the Bonneville Salt Flats if you want an example of what this might look like.

When you look at a cross-section of soil from any place where there used to be a lake, sea or other body of water, there's a layer of marine sediment present. If the entire planet had been underwater, we'd expect to see a layer of marine sediment anywhere we cared to look... but we don't. We only find marine sediment where conventional geological theory says that there was a lake, sea, ocean or the like, and never anywhere else... and the marine sediment that we do find is only consistent for that ancient body of water; if all the sediment that is there came from one global body of water, it would all be similar... it's not.

*If you believe that the flood waters were pulled up through "windows in Heaven" or something like that, I can't help you... if some supernatural mechanism did collect all the water without vibration, I suppose it's conceivable that any suspended solids got taken with it, but this would only affect the thickness of the sedimentary layer, not its outright existence.

A sudden flood would wash away a large quantity of soil? How about a flood that was not sudden at all?

No supernatural thing exists. Everything abides by the physical laws. Even God will not/can not violate them. If He did, the universe would cease to exist.

 

[Super Universe]

But it's not reality until the perception changes. If it's foggy enough that I don't know how I ended up driving off the cliff and falling to my death, the fact remains that the reality never did change for me because my perception didn't.

You're confusing "usefulness" for "truth." It's an easy mistake to make. But it's still a mistake. Nobody has a solution to the problem of induction.

It's foggy, but not that foggy. You realize your mistaken perception just before you leave the roadway.

The step never moves, you do.

You cannot change the physical laws by hoping they will suit you.

 

[doppelganger]

It's foggy, but not that foggy. You realize your mistaken perception just before you leave the roadway.

Right. My reality changed because my perception changed it. You're making my point for me. :yes:

 

[Random]

I honour the Goddess sometimes, because I like the idea of a female deity that represents both the Higher Good and the good in me, a different energy. She to me is a cool-mind program that is of great sentimental value to me. But depending on what mood I'm in, I could just as easily not believe. And when asked, I always say I do not believe in a literal, personal GOD beyond what I see in the mirror every day. Make of that what you will. Question: is there something "outside" the System, or something which is not what it seems "inside" the System? GOD knows...:flirt:

 

[Super Universe]

Right. My reality changed because my perception changed it. You're making my point for me. :yes:

I understand your point well, I just don't agree with it.

You think, no matter what, what we think, what we believe, exists. That we cause everything just by thinking about it.

It's not perception that creates the universe around us that we seem to fit in so well with, it's our energy level based upon our coding (DNA).

We are in a complex movie made of energy. This movie has certain laws and these laws change depending on the level of our DNA.

When we further complicate our DNA, when we evolve, we enlighten (to become lighter, less in density) ourselves so we can ascend through the energy movie to the source of it.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

A sudden flood would wash away a large quantity of soil? How about a flood that was not sudden at all?

A flood that rose so gradually that not a grain of soil was disturbed would still produce sediment. Look at the oceans today: marine organisms constantly die and fall to the ocean floor. This builds up into a rather sizable layer over time... such as the time required to gradually flood the Earth without any erosion at all (if it's even possible to do so).

No supernatural thing exists. Everything abides by the physical laws. Even God will not/can not violate them. If He did, the universe would cease to exist.

Okay, then: no "windows in Heaven". In that case, when all the water evaporated, it would have left a nice thick layer of residual dissolved minerals and suspended solids over the entire Earth. Let me know when you find it.