Do You Know Why You Don't Believe?

[Super Universe]

Super_Universe, the reason there is no so-called "first cause" is that time as it is conceived is an illusion. In many respects there is no "future" or any "past" and all there really is, is now. In light of this using an arbitrary reference point, a supposed "start point", is relatively meaningless. So-called "creation" is happening as much this very moment and it "was" 15,000,000,000 years "ago" or "will be" in 15,000,000,000 years. There is, imho, simply no single point where one can point to and say, "It all started here." Do you understand?

Time isn't an illusion anymore than gravity is. Time is real and it's something we experience exactly the same each day while we are here in this outer dimensional universe.

In many respects there is no future and there is no past? Yes but these respects are well above the normal human perception and understanding.

All there really is is now? No, you are stuck in the now because you don't know how to access the prime timeline (something that requires an extremely advanced understanding of the universe) to experience the past or future and even if you could you can only view the prime timeline, any change you try to make creates another separate timeline.

Creation is happening this very moment as millions of years ago? Yes it is. String energy emitted from heaven creates all dimensions, time, all matter/energy, and it creates all the physical laws constantly, every minute and every second. The big bang was a one time event that created another dimensional level. It was hardly the beginning.

 

[painted wolf]

oh the universe is infinite... we will never find the end because there is no end to find.

Unless you think we have found the edge of the universe?

wa:do

 

[Autodidact]

The universe is not infinite and it is not eternal.

How do you know?

We will understand every single thing there is to know, just not today.

How do you know?

Did you notice that you tend to just announce things, rather then establish them? It takes more than just declaring something here on this great Internet; you have to demonstrate it as well.

 

[Super Universe]

The universe is not infinite. The multiverse is many, many times the area of the universe and even it is not infinite.

I do not need to demonstrate anything. I need to provide no more evidence of what I believe than you do, even though many more of the puzzle pieces fit together in my scenario than yours.

I think this is the third time you've attempted to establish your rules and for the third time you lack the authority to do so. You are not in control here.

 

[YmirGF]

Time isn't an illusion anymore than gravity is. Time is real and it's something we experience exactly the same each day while we are here in this outer dimensional universe.

Nice try, but "time" is actually a series of intensities resulting by our focus that we translate through the physical senses. Do you never feel time "dragging" by? Do you never get absorbed in a project and lose track of time, so that hours seem to fly by in a relative instant?

In many respects there is no future and there is no past? Yes but these respects are well above the normal human perception and understanding.

Are you patting me on the head for getting something partially correct? (In your terms, that is.)

All there really is is now? No, you are stuck in the now because you don't know how to access the prime timeline (something that requires an extremely advanced understanding of the universe) to experience the past or future and even if you could you can only view the prime timeline, any change you try to make creates another separate timeline.

Hmmm. I am hardly stuck in my now, Super_Universe. Anyone who knows anything understands that the "now" is like a doorway of a sorts. Tell me, do you know anything about the nature of probabilities? (That is a serious question and not a snide remark, btw.)

Creation is happening this very moment as millions of years ago? Yes it is. String energy emitted from heaven creates all dimensions, time, all matter/energy, and it creates all the physical laws constantly, every minute and every second. The big bang was a one time event that created another dimensional level. It was hardly the beginning.

I see you chose not to directly answer my submission that nothingness is incapable of forming an idea. Were you planning on responding to that assertion or no?

 

[Autodidact]

The universe is not infinite. The multiverse is many, many times the area of the universe and even it is not infinite.

AND YOU KNOW THIS HOW?

I do not need to demonstrate anything. I need to provide no more evidence of what I believe than you do, even though many more of the puzzle pieces fit together in my scenario than yours.

You needn't do anything you don't want. Just don't expect anyone to take your argument seriously.

I think this is the third time you've attempted to establish your rules and for the third time you lack the authority to do so. You are not in control here.

What makes you think this is about control? It's a discussion. Do what you like. Just don't expect anyone to pay any attention to it.

 

[Super Universe]

Nice try, but "time" is actually a series of intensities resulting by our focus that we translate through the physical senses. Do you never feel time "dragging" by? Do you never get absorbed in a project and lose track of time, so that hours seem to fly by in a relative instant?

Are you patting me on the head for getting something partially correct? (In your terms, that is.)

Hmmm. I am hardly stuck in my now, Super_Universe. Anyone who knows anything understands that the "now" is like a doorway of a sorts. Tell me, do you know anything about the nature of probabilities? (That is a serious question and not a snide remark, btw.)

I see you chose not to directly answer my submission that nothingness is incapable of forming an idea. Were you planning on responding to that assertion or no?

Wrong. The effect of time is felt by every single thing existing in this universe. It's effects can be seen in molecular structures as well as biological structures. It has nothing to do with "our focus", whatever that is. Whether I think time is dragging or going fast doesn't change reality.

No, I'm not patting you on the head.

This doorway in time that you think exists, it does, but opening it is so far beyond you and every other non-light being that I just don't think anyone's too worried about it.

Probability has nothing to do with it, and this is one area that you really don't seem to understand. What do you think the probability is that a one year old will be able to throw a hundred mph fastball? When the chance is infinitesimally small, it doesn't happen. You think a .0000000001 chance that the universe can create itself happens if given enough time. Well it doesn't.

Nothingness is incapable of forming an idea? Do you have some evidence of that? But regardless, continue with your logic... If what you say is true then...?

 

[Super Universe]

AND YOU KNOW THIS HOW?

[/size] You needn't do anything you don't want. Just don't expect anyone to take your argument seriously.

What makes you think this is about control? It's a discussion. Do what you like. Just don't expect anyone to pay any attention to it.

I'm sure no one would pay any attention at all to anything I ever say. (Six hundred replies later)

 

[Autodidact]

I'm sure no one would pay any attention at all to anything I ever say. (Six hundred replies later)

Exactly. Have you ever persuaded anyone of anything in this forum?

 

[Super Universe]

Exactly. Have you ever persuaded anyone of anything in this forum?

Project your anger somewhere else...

 

[YmirGF]

Wrong. The effect of time is felt by every single thing in existing in this universe. It's effects can be seen in molecular structures as well as biological structures. It has nothing to do with "our focus", whatever that is. Whether I think time is dragging or going fast doesn't change reality.

Very well, we will just agree to disagree on this one. My direct understanding of time is that time is relative to the viewpoint taken... which would be "focus" although some may not incorrectly read that to mean application of will. But again, we will agree to disagree.

No, I'm not patting you on the head.

Well you agreed to a point, lol.

In many respects there is no future and there is no past? Yes but these respects are well above the normal human perception and understanding.

I will agree that these respects are well "above" the conventions of the human animal's perception and understanding, but you might pause and ask yourself, "How would he know?" Keep in mind, this is my experience, not my hypothetical belief structures talking. A small, but significant difference. I know you must understand.

This doorway in time that you think exists, it does, but opening it is so far beyond you and every other non-light being that I just don't think anyone's too worried about it.

Actually I am not concerned about it in the slightest Super_Universe. Given that I view myself as a personality energy essence, or you could interpret that as a "being of light", it is not as far beyond my capabilities as you might imagine.

Probability has nothing to do with it, and this is one area that you really don't seem to understand. What do you think the probability is that a one year old will be able to throw a hundred mile an hour fastball? When the chance is infinitesimally small, it doesn't happen. You think a .0000000001 chance that the universe can create itself happens if given enough time. Well it doesn't.

Bummer. You are thinking of probability in a conventional sense but I am not surprised that you don't understand what I am really meaning. In MY sense of the word I mean it almost exclusively in terms of "probable realities". Now that may sound somewhat vague but due to the inherent nature of reality being that it cannot be pinned down with any accuracy, probability theory takes a tremendous amount of situations into the realm of possibility.

In a nutshell, probability theory operates like so. At any given nanosecond, you are faced with a veritable host of choices. You can call them probabilities in waiting. Prior to taking action, by making a choice to actualize something, all probabilities are equally valid options. You can choose to get a kleenex, an orange juice, clean the cat box, go for a walk, mow the lawn, go to the toilet etc... each moment is the nexus of a myriad of probable realities. Get it? Hopefully, because THAT is how I am meaning it. I am not meaning it in the conventional sense relating to statistical probability. Hopefully you will spend more than a nanosecond considering what I am saying.

Nothingness is incapable of forming an idea? Do you have some evidence of that? But regardless, continue with your logic... If what you say is true then...?

Ok. My proof: You start out with nothing, no consciousness, nothing... a void. It is highly improbable that said void could generate anything whatsoever, as it is nothing after all. Besides, if there was indeed a "first cause" I would rather expect it to be more along the lines of "I am" rather than the ill-conceived "There can be no nothing." Heck, I wouldn't even give you a hard time if you said that the law stated, "Nothing can exist by itself". Now THAT, I could believe.

 

[Super Universe]

Very well, we will just agree to disagree on this one. My direct understanding of time is that time is relative to the viewpoint taken... which would be "focus" although some may not incorrectly read that to mean application of will. But again, we will agree to disagree.[/size]

Well you agreed to a point, lol.

I will agree that these respects are well "above" the conventions of the human animal's perception and understanding, but you might pause and ask yourself, "How would he know?" Keep in mind, this is my experience, not my hypothetical belief structures talking. A small, but significant difference. I know you must understand.

Actually I am not concerned about it in the slightest Super_Universe. Given that I view myself as a personality energy essence, or you could interpret that as a "being of light", it is not as far beyond my capabilities as you might imagine.

Bummer. You are thinking of probability in a conventional sense but I am not surprised that you don't understand what I am really meaning. In MY sense of the word I mean it almost exclusively in terms of "probable realities". Now that may sound somewhat vague but due to the inherent nature of reality being that it cannot be pinned down with any accuracy, probability theory takes a tremendous amount of situations into the realm of possibility.

In a nutshell, probability theory operates like so. At any given nanosecond, you are faced with a veritable host of choices. You can call them probabilities in waiting. Prior to taking action, by making a choice to actualize something, all probabilities are equally valid options. You can choose to get a kleenex, an orange juice, clean the cat box, go for a walk, mow the lawn, go to the toilet etc... each moment is the nexus of a myriad of probable realities. Get it? Hopefully, because THAT is how I am meaning it. I am not meaning it in the conventional sense relating to statistical probability. Hopefully you will spend more than a nanosecond considering what I am saying.

Ok. My proof: You start out with nothing, no consciousness, nothing... a void. It is highly improbable that said void could generate anything whatsoever, as it is nothing after all. Besides, if there was indeed a "first cause" I would rather expect it to be more along the lines of "I am" rather than the ill-conceived "There can be no nothing." Heck, I wouldn't even give you a hard time if you said that the law stated, "Nothing can exist by itself". Now THAT, I could believe.

Time is relative to the viewpoint taken? Hmm, if this is going to go into Einstein's relativity theory then I have nothing further to say. If this is going to go into a philisophical debate about whether time is a creation of perception, then I'm all in.

Unlike Autodidact, I very rarely wonder how others know things. There are only so many ways to learn something, you were either informed in one way or another (taught or read it) or it was through personal experience. I generally know how you know just by your stance. Also, personality elements (fear, anger, pride, jealousy...) are in play as they always are. In fact, revealing them was the point of this thread.

Probable realities... Of the largest numbers in existence, those that are so large that they are beyond imagination, the number of probable realities might just be in the top five.

The prime timeline is complete from beginning to the end. That is why it is said that God is the Alpha and the Omega. It's all happened already. Now this prime timeline can be accessed at any point by souls. If they wish, a soul can join with Albert Einstein, Adolf Hitler, or a servant to Alexander the Great. Souls join with many beings over many times at once so they can experience many personalities to build their's from. Now, changes cannot be made in the prime timeline because they would change the outcome (of God) so any changes that are made form a new, alternate, timeline.

Your scientists have theorized an idea that both possible outcomes of a choice create universes, the choice you made is the one you exist in and another universe exists where you chose the other choice. This idea is not entirely wrong, it's just that another universe is not formed, an alternate timeline is formed where the events of that choice can play out.

Also, because souls join with multiple personalities over multiple times and all of this information comes into one being (the soul) there are times when some of the information inadvertently travels from one human to another human and they experience what they think are memories of a past life, one they never lived.

If a void is truly nothing, then it is not only improbable, it is impossible for anything to form. So the logical continuation of your idea that nothingness is incapable of forming an idea is that - there must have been something.

The point I was trying to make is that God has always existed, the Law that eventually formed a being called God is simply God unevolved. Many times, any definition of something so incredibly complex and beyond our understanding is insufficient. Any way you attempt to describe it is so lacking that it is inherently wrong by evolved standards. Even so, there is value in the effort and there is some degree of understanding, even if primitive by other standards, that we can achieve.

 

[Autodidact]

Project your anger somewhere else...

I take it you can't answer my questions then?

 

[painted wolf]

The universe is not infinite. The multiverse is many, many times the area of the universe and even it is not infinite.

I do not need to demonstrate anything. I need to provide no more evidence of what I believe than you do, even though many more of the puzzle pieces fit together in my scenario than yours.

I think this is the third time you've attempted to establish your rules and for the third time you lack the authority to do so. You are not in control here.

Wow, someone is feeling a bit cranky eh?

The multiverse is a fun idea, but its nothing more. You can not test it, you can not demonstrate it.... Like string theory, its one of the great untheories.

Puzzle pieces are a game... No more than a mental distraction and an abstraction.

Don't go into the mosh pit expecting a ballet.

wa:do

 

[Super Universe]

I take it you can't answer my questions then?

Why would I?

 

[Kavi]

For me, it's not that there are bad things happening all of the time. The reason I remain undecided and confused about God is there's no way to know for sure. The only thing to go on is belief. That's just not enough for some people. At this moment in time, I'm one of those people.

 

[Super Universe]

For me, it's not that there are bad things happening all of the time. The reason I remain undecided and confused about God is there's no way to know for sure. The only thing to go on is belief. That's just not enough for some people. At this moment in time, I'm one of those people.

No way to know for sure?

So, you are afraid of believing and being wrong?

 

[contemplative]

The reason why God puts us through hardships in life is because he is testing our faith. God doens't want anyone of us to suffer because he created us. Sometimes, putting us through hard times in life is his way of letting us see that the only way we can survive is if we walk with him, not against him. So if someone doesn't belive because God is putting them through alot of negative situations, then they are failing his test. But for many people, the meaning behind God and how he works just can't be clarified as I have just done. So it's not that it's their ego that keeps them from believing, but it's just that they're confused.

 

[Autodidact]

Why would I?

O.K., so what you're saying is that you have absolutely no basis for your groundless assertions, and therefore they should be treated as having no merit? Because you don't expect us to accept things just on your say-so, right? After all, you're just some anonymous person on the internet, just like me. I don't expect people to accept what I say without some support or cite, do you?

 

[Autodidact]

No way to know for sure?

So, you are afraid of believing and being wrong?

Well, I don't know if I would use the word, "afraid." I try to be as right as I can; don't you?