Do You Know Why You Don't Believe?

[Super Universe]

Everyone was once an atheist. We're born that way. At what age did you come to accept this theistic mentality and what changed in you that motivated this transformation? When you were an atheist, was it simply the fact that you thought god was represented by religions that motivated your atheism or were there other factors involved? If it hadn't been for your impression that religion represented god, would you have become a believer earlier? For most atheists, it's a lack of evidence for god that motivates their disbelief, was this not the case for yourself?

In my youth I considered myself a scientific athiest. I had to have the answers to all the complex questions first in order to believe. Religion was also a factor, one side of my family was Lutheran and the other Jehovah's Witness with a mixture of poor white trash added just for flavor.

I had a vision at age 22. It was simple but perfect, no more or less than what was needed. I knew that God existed and that He created the universe. This vision did not come from God, it was more like something that was scheduled to happen long before I was born in order to awaken me.

The problem was that even though I absolutely knew that God existed I had no other answers given to me. It's been a long journey and while I have many answers now I know I still have much farther to go.

The lack of evidence was my excuse for not believing in God but it wasn't the main reason. I was very upset at my situation. Why the hell was I born into such a mixed up group of people who were so damn ignorant and selfish when I was nothing at all like them? I blamed God.

Now, looking back, I wouldn't change a thing.

 

[Smoke]

Great, another angry and completely unnecessary reply. Since you obviously can't join the discussion in an intelligent manner, then don't respond at all!

Another unnecessary and uninformed post on my thoughts? So far, you're very poor at reading minds; I'm not angry at all. Do you suppose your ego is the reason for your rank presumption?

 

[Jose Fly]

S-U,

Some actual evidence? No, what you want is absolute evidence with no other possible interpretation otherwise you will simply continue to choose NOT to believe.

Don't presume to know what I want better than I do.

Again, all I ask for is evidence. To this point, you have provided none. Either you can offer evidence for your assertions or you can't. The more effort and time you put into avoiding providing any, the more weight you give to the notion that you have none.

Is that all I have? No, but it's ten times more than you have.

Than I have for what? You're the one going around making one unsubstantiated assertion after another. All I'm doing is evaluating your claims and asking you to provide some evidence.

So far you're doing rather poorly.

Life is completely natural? Then why isn't it in space? Why isn't it on the moon? On asteroids? On Mars and Venus?

I'm going to be completely honest with you, and I'm not saying anything about you personally....but that's a very, very stupid answer. Just because something is completely natural doesn't mean it should exist throughout the universe. Calcium is a completely natural substance, but <gasp> is it everywhere in the universe? No? Does "it doesn't exist in every location in the universe" = "it is non-natural"? If you think it does, you should explain further.

Point to something specific about life that is non-natural? Okay, spirit.

Where exactly can I find "spirit" in a cell? What does it look like? What are its components?

I do not assert that order cannot come from chaos - you shouldn't speak of dishonest tactics when you are doing the same thing. My assertion was that complex order cannot come from chaos.

First, don't accuse me of dishonesty unless you can point to a specific example of me doing so. Second, what is the measurable difference between "order" and "complex order"?

Chemistry operates via energy? What energy would that be? EMR?

You seriously don't know what energy drives chemical reactions? You have no idea at all? If not, I submit that you have no business commenting on anything to do with chemistry.

 

[Super Universe]

Evidence? I provided it, many times. Once again here it is, I'll take the universe. What's your evidence against God or is your only argument simply going to be "I'm not convinced"?

You compare life to... calcium? I won't say anything about you personally but... well you know.

Where can you find spirit in a cell? Where can you find neutrino's in an atom? What do neutrino's look like? What are it's components?

I seriously don't know what YOU think drives chemical reactions.

 

[Panda]

Neutrinos

The universe is not evidence for God, it in no way proves that God exists. Give some real evidence of God or focus on one particular thing.

 

[Super Universe]

Neutrinos

The universe is not evidence for God, it in no way proves that God exists. Give some real evidence of God or focus on one particular thing.

Thanks for the Wiki link to neutrino's but nothing there explains where you can find neutrino's in an atom. Nothing there explains what neutrino's look like and your scientists understanding of them, and other quantum particles, is still in the primitive stage.

You want proof of God? Start your own topic on it, this thread is asking if you know why you don't believe and not a single one of you athiests have answered the OP yet. What are you all afraid of?

You have no proof of neutrino's either but I'd bet you believe in them now, don't you?

 

[Panda]

Thanks for the Wiki link to neutrino's but nothing there explains where you can find neutrino's in an atom. Nothing there explains what neutrino's look like and your scientists understanding of them, and other quantum particles, is still in the primitive stage.

You want proof of God? Start your own topic on it, this thread is asking if you know why you don't believe and not a single one of you athiests have answered the OP yet. What are you all afraid of?

You have no proof of neutrino's either but I'd bet you believe in them now, don't you?

The reason I don't believe is there is no proof of God.

 

[LogDog]

In my youth I considered myself a scientific athiest. I had to have the answers to all the complex questions first in order to believe.

What complex questions did you find answers for in your "scientific atheist" days that helped foster your belief in something for which there is no scientific evidence?

I had a vision at age 22. It was simple but perfect, no more or less than what was needed. I knew that God existed and that He created the universe. This vision did not come from God, it was more like something that was scheduled to happen long before I was born in order to awaken me.

So it was a vision and not answers to complex questions that brought you to accept that a god exists? How do you decipher which visions come from god and which ones were scheduled to happen before you were born? What's the difference in the first place and how did you surmise that this vision was not the product of natural brain activity? Is there another explanation for this vision that doesn't elicit the supernatural?

I was very upset at my situation. Why the hell was I born into such a mixed up group of people who were so damn ignorant and selfish when I was nothing at all like them? I blamed God.

Was this your attitude before or after you had your vision?

 

[Jose Fly]

S-U,

Evidence? I provided it, many times. Once again here it is, I'll take the universe.

Simply saying the word "universe" does not constitute providing evidence for your assertions any more than saying "wheelbarrow" constitutes providing evidence that badgers sectretly run the world.

Do you think anyone would find that at all compelling? No? Now you understand how we view your response.

Again, either you have evidence to support your assertions or you don't. The more effort and time you put into dodging providing any, the more credence you give to the notion that you have none.

What's your evidence against God or is your only argument simply going to be "I'm not convinced"?

You're the one making the positive assertion, i.e. that God exists. Therefore it falls upon you to substantiate that assertion.

You compare life to... calcium?

No. You need to pay closer attention.

You stated that life is non-natural and justified that assertion by arguing that if it wasn't, it would be everywhere in the universe. I simply applied your "logic" to something else, i.e. calcium. Calcium is natural, yet it is not everywhere in the universe. I therefore demonstrated that "natural" does not require "must be everywhere in the universe", thus exposing the fatal flaw in your argument.

If you disagree, I'll ask again: Does "natural" = "exists in every location in the universe"? If so, why?

Where can you find spirit in a cell? Where can you find neutrino's in an atom?

You're dodging yet another direct question. I said absolutely nothing about neutrinos.

Again: Where can I find "spirit" in a cell? What does it look like? What are its components?

The more effort and time you put into dodging these questions, the more weight you give to the notion that you can't answer them.

I seriously don't know what YOU think drives chemical reactions.

You were the one who asked if "EMR" drives chemical reactions in an apparent objection to my stating that chemistry is driven by energy.

Do you disagree that chemistry is driven by energy?

 

[Bathsheba]

I don't believe in god because I am an egotistical selfish *****.

 

[Yes Man]

God did not create flaws, you did.

I never made my body work this way. I never made all the inconsistencies in my physical structure. Where do things like cancer come into play? Why would a God create disease in the first place?

A crooked tree was never meant to be straight, it's supposed to be crooked! Fix yourself! Fix your incorrect view. Everything is made to be broken.

And how do you propose I do that? What difference does it make if I believe in him or not?

Why can't you understand that? It should be obvious.

Obviously it's not obvious. Otherwise we wouldn't be having this discussion. Explain to me how the universe is evidence for God's existence.

Worship? Sigh... Humans haven't earned the right to worship God. How can you attempt to worship something when you don't even understand 1% of it?

Funny people do that all the time. People worship the Great Mystery even though they don't understand God completely.

 

[Yes Man]

I don't believe in god because I am an egotistical selfish *****.

Here here :highfive:

 

[Super Universe]

What complex questions did you find answers for in your "scientific atheist" days that helped foster your belief in something for which there is no scientific evidence?

So it was a vision and not answers to complex questions that brought you to accept that a god exists? How do you decipher which visions come from god and which ones were scheduled to happen before you were born? What's the difference in the first place and how did you surmise that this vision was not the product of natural brain activity? Is there another explanation for this vision that doesn't elicit the supernatural?

Was this your attitude before or after you had your vision?

I found no answers in my "scientific athiest" days. The only thing I came up with were questions.

The vision changed me instantly. I knew positively, 100%, without a doubt that God exists and that He created the universe.

No vision comes from God. The frequency of His energy is much too high for direct communication to take place.

How do I know my vision was scheduled to happen before I was born? After I had the vision I pretty much ignored it because I didn't know how to explain it to my friends and didn't want to seem like a hipocrite but I soon realized that there had been many other highly improbable coincidences that tried to prepare/warn me of the coming vision. But the final topping was... I remembered who I am.

Natural brain activity? Let me ask you this, where does the electrical charge come from that flows down your nerves to move your muscles? Does it come from the brain? Then why does a chicken still move after it's head has been cut off?

When you ask me these questions it's obvious that you haven't given this detailed thought just as I had not. It's far beyond impossible for the universe to create itself in such complexity. I know you won't accept it but there is purpose in the design. The universe is a huge school of learning and the earth is first grade, heaven is like earning your doctorate.

So many of you think God does not exist because you are not happy, use those bad experiences to learn, mature and evolve above them, be a better being because of it and then you will understand.

It wasn't intended by God that you learn things the hard way but when those hard days come don't miss out on the incredible chance to become stronger. Control your emotions, don't let them control you.

 

[Super Universe]

S-U,

Simply saying the word "universe" does not constitute providing evidence for your assertions any more than saying "wheelbarrow" constitutes providing evidence that badgers sectretly run the world.

Do you think anyone would find that at all compelling? No? Now you understand how we view your response.

Again, either you have evidence to support your assertions or you don't. The more effort and time you put into dodging providing any, the more credence you give to the notion that you have none.

You're the one making the positive assertion, i.e. that God exists. Therefore it falls upon you to substantiate that assertion.

No. You need to pay closer attention.

You stated that life is non-natural and justified that assertion by arguing that if it wasn't, it would be everywhere in the universe. I simply applied your "logic" to something else, i.e. calcium. Calcium is natural, yet it is not everywhere in the universe. I therefore demonstrated that "natural" does not require "must be everywhere in the universe", thus exposing the fatal flaw in your argument.

If you disagree, I'll ask again: Does "natural" = "exists in every location in the universe"? If so, why?



You're dodging yet another direct question. I said absolutely nothing about neutrinos.

Again: Where can I find "spirit" in a cell? What does it look like? What are its components?

The more effort and time you put into dodging these questions, the more weight you give to the notion that you can't answer them.



You were the one who asked if "EMR" drives chemical reactions in an apparent objection to my stating that chemistry is driven by energy.

Do you disagree that chemistry is driven by energy?

Are you going to answer the OP or not?

 

[Super Universe]

I never made my body work this way. I never made all the inconsistencies in my physical structure. Where do things like cancer come into play? Why would a God create disease in the first place?

And how do you propose I do that? What difference does it make if I believe in him or not?

Obviously it's not obvious. Otherwise we wouldn't be having this discussion. Explain to me how the universe is evidence for God's existence.

Funny people do that all the time. People worship the Great Mystery even though they don't understand God completely.

You see flaws. You think you should live forever and be soo happy and everything should revolve around you and you should have all the wealth and fame and everything you'd ever want, and you, and you... Sigh...

But it's not about you. It never was. It never will be.

God didn't create disease. What have you ever created that was perfect, without any flaw whatsoever? Oh, nothing? Join the club.

The universe is a million needles all stacked end to end, one of top of another. The universe is like rolling a million dice and they all come up sixes.

Humans worshipping God is like an infant wearing a sports team jersey, what do they really know of it?

 

[methylatedghosts]

In my youth I considered myself a scientific athiest. I had to have the answers to all the complex questions first in order to believe. Religion was also a factor, one side of my family was Lutheran and the other Jehovah's Witness with a mixture of poor white trash added just for flavor.

I had a vision at age 22. It was simple but perfect, no more or less than what was needed. I knew that God existed and that He created the universe. This vision did not come from God, it was more like something that was scheduled to happen long before I was born in order to awaken me.

The problem was that even though I absolutely knew that God existed I had no other answers given to me. It's been a long journey and while I have many answers now I know I still have much farther to go.

The lack of evidence was my excuse for not believing in God but it wasn't the main reason. I was very upset at my situation. Why the hell was I born into such a mixed up group of people who were so damn ignorant and selfish when I was nothing at all like them? I blamed God.

Now, looking back, I wouldn't change a thing.

Interesting that this is exactly what me and a few others have been talking about. Seems this is a revelation rather than a realisation....

Simply saying the word "universe" does not constitute providing evidence for your assertions any more than saying "wheelbarrow" constitutes providing evidence that badgers sectretly run the world.

I can see the headlines now!

"Badger mob begins Florida takeover - Following commands from their high-almighty wheelbarrow"

 

[Buttercup]

Humans worshipping God is like an infant wearing a sports team jersey, what do they really know of it?

This is my thought on what we know of God....if there is a God. We know nothing. Absolutely nothing.

 

[Yes Man]

You see flaws. You think you should live forever and be soo happy and everything should revolve around you and you should have all the wealth and fame and everything you'd ever want, and you, and you... Sigh...

But it's not about you. It never was. It never will be.

God didn't create disease. What have you ever created that was perfect, without any flaw whatsoever? Oh, nothing? Join the club.

The universe is a million needles all stacked end to end, one of top of another. The universe is like rolling a million dice and they all come up sixes.

Humans worshipping God is like an infant wearing a sports team jersey, what do they really know of it?

Oh yes answer my question with typical philosophical responses. I've heard too many of these from other religious types trying to convince me that God exists. But no one will answer my question with facts. With logic. You can't really. Because that's just it. We don't know. And to me you're simply filling in the unknowns with your own assumptions and delusions. I don't know if there ever was a God. And I'm not simply going to put what I think is right in my beliefs. What's there is there and what's not is not. How do I know if an omniscient God existed at one time or if a less than omniscient God exists now?

 

[gnomon]

What is the reason you don't believe in God? Or the reason you're not absolutely positively sure God exists?

I'd guess the number one reason is because people see bad things happening all around them and can't understand why God would allow it to happen.

How would you rate the other reasons not to believe?

Now the key question, where would you rate your own ego as a reason and do you realize it's the main reason?

I do not believe in God, the spirit nor the supernatural because it's all irrelevant. To me.

There is nothing in this world that cannot be faced through reason or the comfort of others.

For me.

 

[LogDog]

I found no answers in my "scientific athiest" days. The only thing I came up with were questions.

The vision changed me instantly. I knew positively, 100%, without a doubt that God exists and that He created the universe.

No vision comes from God. The frequency of His energy is much too high for direct communication to take place.

How do I know my vision was scheduled to happen before I was born? After I had the vision I pretty much ignored it because I didn't know how to explain it to my friends and didn't want to seem like a hipocrite but I soon realized that there had been many other highly improbable coincidences that tried to prepare/warn me of the coming vision. But the final topping was... I remembered who I am.

Natural brain activity? Let me ask you this, where does the electrical charge come from that flows down your nerves to move your muscles? Does it come from the brain? Then why does a chicken still move after it's head has been cut off?

When you ask me these questions it's obvious that you haven't given this detailed thought just as I had not. It's far beyond impossible for the universe to create itself in such complexity. I know you won't accept it but there is purpose in the design. The universe is a huge school of learning and the earth is first grade, heaven is like earning your doctorate.

So many of you think God does not exist because you are not happy, use those bad experiences to learn, mature and evolve above them, be a better being because of it and then you will understand.

It wasn't intended by God that you learn things the hard way but when those hard days come don't miss out on the incredible chance to become stronger. Control your emotions, don't let them control you.

Your rhetoric has become tiresome. Good day I bid you.