Do You Know Why You Don't Believe?

[Jose Fly]

S-U,

Are you going to answer the OP or not?

You've already stated that the OP was intended specifically for someone else. So why is you answering questions I've asked you repeatedly contingent upon me answering questions you intended for someone else?

As I said, the more effort and time you put into avoiding my questions, the more weight you give to the notion that you can't answer them.

So once again...

Evidence? I provided it, many times. Once again here it is, I'll take the universe.

Simply saying the word "universe" does not constitute providing evidence for your assertions any more than saying "wheelbarrow" constitutes providing evidence that badgers sectretly run the world.

Do you think anyone would find that at all compelling? No? Now you understand how we view your response.

Again, either you have evidence to support your assertions or you don't. The more effort and time you put into dodging providing any, the more credence you give to the notion that you have none.

What's your evidence against God or is your only argument simply going to be "I'm not convinced"?

You're the one making the positive assertion, i.e. that God exists. Therefore it falls upon you to substantiate that assertion.

You compare life to... calcium?

No. You need to pay closer attention.

You stated that life is non-natural and justified that assertion by arguing that if it wasn't, it would be everywhere in the universe. I simply applied your "logic" to something else, i.e. calcium. Calcium is natural, yet it is not everywhere in the universe. I therefore demonstrated that "natural" does not require "must be everywhere in the universe", thus exposing the fatal flaw in your argument.

If you disagree, I'll ask again: Does "natural" = "exists in every location in the universe"? If so, why?

Where can you find spirit in a cell? Where can you find neutrino's in an atom?

You're dodging yet another direct question. I said absolutely nothing about neutrinos.

Again: Where can I find "spirit" in a cell? What does it look like? What are its components?

The more effort and time you put into dodging these questions, the more weight you give to the notion that you can't answer them.

I seriously don't know what YOU think drives chemical reactions.

You were the one who asked if "EMR" drives chemical reactions in an apparent objection to my stating that chemistry is driven by energy.

Do you disagree that chemistry is driven by energy?

 

[UnTheist]

You do crap yourself? Hmm, you grow your own food? Do you grow and stitch your own wool for clothes? Fix your own teeth? Cut your own hair? Do you have an outhouse that you dug and built yourself? Do you have a car that you found all the metal ore for and fabricated into a vehicle all on your own?

Wow, I wonder what this has to do with me not believing in God. :sarcastic

When you asked "Are you mad because God isn't helping you" I thought you meant God helping me with my problems. And my answer was suppose to be like "I deal with my own problems and don't blame God for them." I guess I didn't say it correctly before.

 

[Super Universe]

Your rhetoric has become tiresome. Good day I bid you.

C ya...

 

[Bathsheba]

People are so afraid to talk about themselves. I wonder why?

Are you on any medication?

 

[capslockf9]

What is the reason you don't believe in God? Or the reason you're not absolutely positively sure God exists?

I'd guess the number one reason is because people see bad things happening all around them and can't understand why God would allow it to happen.

How would you rate the other reasons not to believe?

Now the key question, where would you rate your own ego as a reason and do you realize it's the main reason?

I KNOW that the biblical character is make-believe.

 

[Papersock]

You want proof of God? Start your own topic on it, this thread is asking if you know why you don't believe and not a single one of you athiests have answered the OP yet. What are you all afraid of?

It looked to me like several atheists answered your OP question. Maybe you're just not getting the answer you want. What answer do you want to hear?

 

[Super Universe]

Are you on any medication?

Orange juice...

 

[YmirGF]

I found no answers in my "scientific athiest" days. The only thing I came up with were questions.

That is a rather odd way to put it S_U. Curiously I never turned my back on science and as I don't believe in the "god" outlined in any current religion of man -- you could label me an atheist because I do not believe in those primitive "models" of "god". You speak of a more advanced Theory of God but I can't help but wonder if my views already surpasses your own. At least, for the most part, mine make sense.

The vision changed me instantly. I knew positively, 100%, without a doubt that God exists and that He created the universe.

Um... that's it? There wasn't quite a bit more? I too, could say the same thing, but I understand that such thinking is not especially helpful for others to hear. Aside from the above, my experiences stood my concepts of god on their head. God wasn't anything like what I would have expected had I been a religious snot.

No vision comes from God. The frequency of His energy is much too high for direct communication to take place.

I tend to agree with door #1 however I am simply amused by door #2. So, in essence, you have placed your hand on the cookie jar but are unable to put your hand inside. That is a great pity. You do realize that it is your beliefs that keep you from direct communication, correct?

How do I know my vision was scheduled to happen before I was born? After I had the vision I pretty much ignored it because I didn't know how to explain it to my friends and didn't want to seem like a hipocrite but I soon realized that there had been many other highly improbable coincidences that tried to prepare/warn me of the coming vision.

Interesting, but you aren't really saying anything of particular importance. As usual, we are left to take your word for it. Dig it, S_U there are no coincidences, period. Why would your vision make you sound like a hypocrite? That is an odd thing to say. Were you fervently anti-religious? Heck, I started babbling after a day or two but simply learned that I wasn't explaining things very well AND more importantly, people couldn't relate to what I was blathering on about. So... I shut up for three decades, and in the process I discovered how to speak my mind and make sense at the same time. That, my friend, is no small feat.

But the final topping was... I remembered who I am.

A familiar concept. Tell me and be honest... who are you exactly? Is it perhaps a secret?

When you ask me these questions it's obvious that you haven't given this detailed thought just as I had not. It's far beyond impossible for the universe to create itself in such complexity. I know you won't accept it but there is purpose in the design. The universe is a huge school of learning and the earth is first grade, heaven is like earning your doctorate.

Well, then I must be doing my post doctorate work then, lol as I left thoughts of minor places like "heaven" behind long, long ago.

So many of you think God does not exist because you are not happy, use those bad experiences to learn, mature and evolve above them, be a better being because of it and then you will understand.

Oh good lord, S_U that is a terribly simplistic attitude to take. So you are saying that happiness can only be found in believing in "god"? I beg to differ and I have enjoyed a state of uninterrupted bliss for decades now. I wonder why that is?

It wasn't intended by God that you learn things the hard way but when those hard days come don't miss out on the incredible chance to become stronger. Control your emotions, don't let them control you.

I get disturbed by those who advise clamping down on aspects of being. Control your emotions and you will cut yourself off from some of the greatest experiences the human animal is capable of. THAT is part of the problem with our society, imho. If people want to be truly happy they will have to learn to FEEL their emotions and learn what gives rise to those incredibly powerful feelings. My guess is that you have not learned this nugget yet.

 

[Super Universe]

That is a rather odd way to put it S_U. Curiously I never turned my back on science and as I don't believe in the "god" outlined in any current religion of man -- you could label me an atheist because I do not believe in those primitive "models" of "god". You speak of a more advanced Theory of God but I can't help but wonder if my views already surpasses your own. At least, for the most part, mine make sense.[/size]

Um... that's it? There wasn't quite a bit more? I too, could say the same thing, but I understand that such thinking is not especially helpful for others to hear. Aside from the above, my experiences stood my concepts of god on their head. God wasn't anything like what I would have expected had I been a religious snot.

I tend to agree with door #1 however I am simply amused by door #2. So, in essence, you have placed your hand on the cookie jar but are unable to put your hand inside. That is a great pity. You do realize that it is your beliefs that keep you from direct communication, correct?

Interesting, but you aren't really saying anything of particular importance. As usual, we are left to take your word for it. Dig it, S_U there are no coincidences, period. Why would your vision make you sound like a hypocrite? That is an odd thing to say. Were you fervently anti-religious? Heck, I started babbling after a day or two but simply learned that I wasn't explaining things very well AND more importantly, people couldn't relate to what I was blathering on about. So... I shut up for three decades, and in the process I discovered how to speak my mind and make sense at the same time. That, my friend, is no small feat.

A familiar concept. Tell me and be honest... who are you exactly? Is it perhaps a secret?

Well, then I must be doing my post doctorate work then, lol as I left thoughts of minor places like "heaven" behind long, long ago.

Oh good lord, S_U that is a terribly simplistic attitude to take. So you are saying that happiness can only be found in believing in "god"? I beg to differ and I have enjoyed a state of uninterrupted bliss for decades now. I wonder why that is?


I get disturbed by those who advise clamping down on aspects of being. Control your emotions and you will cut yourself off from some of the greatest experiences the human animal is capable of. THAT is part of the problem with our society, imho. If people want to be truly happy they will have to learn to FEEL their emotions and learn what gives rise to those incredibly powerful feelings. My guess is that you have not learned this nugget yet.

I called myself a scientific athiest. I guess it meant that science replaced God in my belief of the time. I did not turn my back on science, in fact it has given me great support in finding the truth. But I absolutely do not worship the scientists. I appreciate their work and dedication but they deserve much less credit than the stardom they receive for discovering something they did not create.

Yeah, that simple vision was it for a long time. Then I received another about 15 years later but I couldn't handle it, it was way too much, way too fast, the conscious human mind just can't handle the high frequency, that's why revelations come during sleep or meditation, which is essentially learning to be aware while putting the mind to sleep.

My beliefs keep me from direct communication? I don't know if it's that. I receive little reminders that I am doing what I am supposed to be doing, not from God though, from my guardian angel. Not everyone is able to become the next Christ. I'm happy being a worker bee.

I'm not saying anything of particular importance to you but all of it is quite important to me. Take my word for it or don't, it matters not. You're not supposed to live my life and I'm not supposed to live yours. I know that there truly are no coincidences. I'm well aware of the The Celestine Prophecy.

When my vision came, I had been debating religion with someone who was raised Southern Baptist and even though he could not answer any of my questions he would still say "I believe". I could not tell him that I had been changed because I still did not have any of the answers I thought were so important.

Tell you who I am? I am 11:11. Who are you?

People won't believe in God because they are not happy is a simplistic attitude? Of course it is but it's the truth for most people. People are like sobbing babies, unable to handle life without mind altering addictions. My real attitude is this: "No one cares that you're not happy. Grow up and fix it yourself!"

Happiness can only be found by believing in God? Uh, no. Not what I said nor what I meant.

 

[Bathsheba]

Orange juice...

yummy ... with or without pulp?

 

[doppelganger]

I found no answers in my "scientific athiest" days. The only thing I came up with were questions.

The measure of a man is the questions he's willing to ask, and not the answers to which he clings.

 

[Buttercup]

The measure of a man is the questions he's willing to ask, and not the answers to which he clings.
[/size]

True. And, the more questions one asks the more likely the answers may change.

 

[doppelganger]

True. And, the more questions one asks the more likely the answers may change.

And how much those changes are reflections of the observer's own growth. "I am" is a misnomer - one that's very difficult to fix in English. Identity should be in the imperfective aspect: "I am becoming" is about the closest you can get.

 

[Buttercup]

And how much those changes are reflections of the observer's own growth. "I am" is a misnomer - one that's very difficult to fix in English. Identity should be in the imperfective aspect: "I am becoming" is about the closest you can get.

The tragedy is this philosophy is often taken as a negative aspect of one's life.....so many regard the staid and stagnant as the way to truth. How can one find truth if you're merely walking in place all your life?

 

[Jose Fly]

Buttercup,

the more questions one asks the more likely the answers may change

Also, the questions one avoids say more about that person and his position than the ones he answers.

 

[YmirGF]

Also, the questions one avoids say more about that person and his position than the ones he answers.

Exactly, Jose, the odd thing is knowledge is that it isn't dependant on what brilliant answers one has, the true measure, as stated, is in the unflagging ability to ask excellent questions. As any good lawyer (as well as many other professions) will agree, if you don't ask good questions you will always have to deal with lousy answers.
Garbage out; garbage in. :drool:

 

[methylatedghosts]

Interesting, but you aren't really saying anything of particular importance. As usual, we are left to take your word for it. Dig it, S_U there are no coincidences, period. Why would your vision make you sound like a hypocrite? That is an odd thing to say. Were you fervently anti-religious? Heck, I started babbling after a day or two but simply learned that I wasn't explaining things very well AND more importantly, people couldn't relate to what I was blathering on about. So... I shut up for three decades, and in the process I discovered how to speak my mind and make sense at the same time. That, my friend, is no small feat.

No it isn't! I'm still trying to work my way around it. Oh, and the other thing I struggle with is finding people who will listen to me long enough to explain everything lol!

I get disturbed by those who advise clamping down on aspects of being. Control your emotions and you will cut yourself off from some of the greatest experiences the human animal is capable of. THAT is part of the problem with our society, imho. If people want to be truly happy they will have to learn to FEEL their emotions and learn what gives rise to those incredibly powerful feelings. My guess is that you have not learned this nugget yet.

Ymir, not even I have fully begun listening to all my emotions and searching what gives rise to them. I still put them aside much of the time. THAT is not an easy thing to unlearn, I feel. Every now and then I manage to catch hold of an emotion and dwell on it a little but much of the time they slide on past. But I'm learning, so I guess that's a plus!

 

[YmirGF]

I called myself a scientific athiest. I guess it meant that science replaced God in my belief of the time. I did not turn my back on science, in fact it has given me great support in finding the truth. But I absolutely do not worship the scientists. I appreciate their work and dedication but they deserve much less credit than the stardom they receive for discovering something they did not create.

Would you rather that we just lay back in the warm and fuzzy knowledge that "Goddidit!" It is not likely that clerics of any stripe are going to offer real answers about our physical reality, based on past performance, and so why would we not pat scientists on their collective heads? Your words sound hollow, my friend.

I don't know what your views are because you never start threads. The only time I see you post is when you are criticizing me.

That statement tells me more about you than anything else. I post fairly often in many other threads. Perhaps you need to get out and about more often on RF.
For your edification, here are two excellent threads. The first one I agreed to, making it possible, and therefore could be considered a co-creator. The second is indeed my own thread. You could simply perform an advanced search on YmirGF to see you are hardly my lone target. Heck, ask any of the resident Muslims, lol.

1. What is the deal with YmirGF? (an interview)
2. Mystics Only: Extended Discussion

Yeah, that simple vision was it for a long time. Then I received another about 15 years later but I couldn't handle it, it was way too much, way too fast, the conscious human mind just can't handle the high frequency, that's why revelations come during sleep or meditation, which is essentially learning to be aware while putting the mind to sleep.

Hmmm. I could teach you methods to overcome this weakness.

My beliefs keep me from direct communication? I don't know if it's that.

If you do not think that is the case than I rather suspect that you do not fully appreciate the power of your own belief structures and how they influence your experience of reality.

I receive little reminders that I am doing what I am supposed to be doing, not from God though, from my guardian angel. Not everyone is able to become the next Christ. I'm happy being a worker bee.

You might want to read my position on visions and perceptions of so-called "angels" and a possible reason why some feel they see them. In essence it is merely inexperience and simple misunderstanding.

I'm well aware of the The Celestine Prophecy.

*shivers noticably* -- Surely you can't be serious that you take the Celestine Prophecy seriously?

When my vision came, I had been debating religion with someone who was raised Southern Baptist and even though he could not answer any of my questions he would still say "I believe". I could not tell him that I had been changed because I still did not have any of the answers I thought were so important.

It is never the answers that ARE important for pity sakes. It is the ablitly to ask intelligent questions.

Tell you who I am? I am 11:11. Who are you?

Ok then. Do I call you "Eleven, colon, eleven" or perhaps simply 22. I don't pay much attention to scriptures perhaps you could humor an old fool with a specific answer to a good question. No dodging the bullet -- just let it all hang out.

Who am I? I am simply a friend of the family.

People won't believe in God because they are not happy is a simplistic attitude?

Incredible as it might sound to you, yes it is.

Of course it is but it's the truth for most people.

Do you have any statistics to back this nugget up?

People are like sobbing babies, unable to handle life without mind altering addictions.

I gather you have a rather dim view of your fellow human animals. I wonder why that is, although I most certainly do have some theories as to why.

My real attitude is this: "No one cares that you're not happy. Grow up and fix it yourself!"

Well, I think you have blown your chances of getting the Incarnation of Compassion award.

Happiness can only be found by believing in God? Uh, no. Not what I said nor what I meant.

You might give more thought to what you are saying then.

You are so condescending,

Well, I am guilty on that call, lol. You ought to hear me when I am really on a roll.

it's quite annoying.

I know, it is usually the intention. You might ask yourself WHY you are annoyed though because therein lies the key to understanding.

You take something I have said and attempt to spin it another way and act like you're the one who has discovered something. Honestly, I don't think you know zip.

I can safely say with utter assurance that I do in fact know NOTHING quite well, as the more I understand, the less I feel I know. Aside from this multi-layered pearl, S_U, I never, EVER, claim to be right. Perhaps you should think about that for a bit.

I'd bet chemicals are the only way you get your "revelation".

Sadly, no S_U although I have taken my fair share of [blank} but those days were over decades ago. I have duplicated each and everything experienced within those confines in meditiaton and in dreams. If the truth be told I have gone considerably beyond where those external agents allow one to perceive.

That five seconds of high is followed by hours of paranoia but I guess it's worth it to you.

Quite honestly, I haven't the foggiest idea what you are talking about. Five seconds? LOL Paranoia? Um... no, I am not the paranoid type. Guess you got it all wrong once again.

Much to your delight I will remove myself from your edifying thread and amuse myself elsewhere. Check my two link above though. You just might learn something of interest.

 

[Super Universe]

My words sound hollow? You post often? Yeah, criticising this idea or that viewpoint. Why don't you provide all of us with some of your great wisdom?

How about starting a topic on a truly evolutionary idea for once? And no, I don't consider debating how people interpret the word "mystic" or "revelation" to be an evolutionary idea. I'm am so ready to hear something out of you besides criticism. Enter the arena and quit tossing insults from the sidelines.

How about giving us all an explanation of God energy, or as the scientists call it, String Theory?
Or maybe give us an explanation of the arrangement of the universe? Where the giant black gravity bodies are located? Or maybe give us insight into the Phantom Core/Soul and multiple energy centers of the human body?

Weakness? Sigh... Who are you trying to kid? Your little remote viewing "pretty colors" meditation sessions aren't anywhere close to tapping into the God/Soul frequency.

I appreciate the powers of belief structure but you can't make Sigmund Freud into Joe Dimaggio.
Relax and quit trying to tell me what to do. I have a job to do.

I know the little reminders aren't coming from a real guardian angel. That's just the easiest way to explain it to those who don't know anything about the makeup of the Soul/human connection.

Celestine Prophecy? Hehe, can't become invisible then huh? You're not as far along as you think you are.

I disagree, the answers are just as important. Sure you have to be able to ask an intelligent question before you can find an answer to it but one is nothing without the other. They are like a coin, one on one side, one on the other. Let me ask you this, do you understand the process by which information is relayed from the Universal Library to an individual?

So, you don't know who the 11:11 are? As I said, you're not as far along as you think you are. You may very well be able to see things but you haven't figured out what you are seeing. You don't know how the universe works unless your scientists explain it to you and they're simply not good enough yet. And no, I won't give you the answer. You haven't earned it.

You're a friend of the family? In service to who?


I have a dim view of humans? You're damn right I do. You are considered the most important biological achievement in the universe simply because the veil separating you from God is the more dense and impenetrable than any other species.

What this means is you have almost complete free will. It also means that selfishness pervades every decision you make. You are the most selfish beings ever created. You are useless to the rest of the universe. You pollute and destroy your own world and your own kind in previously unheard of numbers. You kill life to extinction. You spread dangerous neutrons into space that others have to deal with.

Other beings see themselves as equals and join together quite readily to benefit their entire species and world. Other species surround their homes with gardens. You lie to your children and tell them "Community College is good enough for you" just so you can upgrade to a bigger SUV then dump the oil in the backyard. God may favor you the most but no one else does.

Why am I annoyed by you? EDIT: Hmm, seems I can't tell you what I really think of you because one of the mods is on my case. Funny, seems others can say whatever they want about me though. You have no idea how hard it is for me to back down from a fight...

 

[w00t]

SU you are are rather up yourself aren't you? Reading your posts, if they aren't too long and boring, you seem to be supremely arrogant in your beliefs as if you have wisdom not shared by the rest of us lesser mortals! Obviously how your brain ticks is between you and your therapist! I don't usually get personal but you peed me off a bit this morning!